Re: The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.

2010-03-29 Thread Alexander Reichle-Schmehl

Hi!

Didier 'OdyX' Raboud schrieb:

Alexander Reichle-Schmehl wrote:

Josselin Mouette schrieb:

Definitely non-free, and the author’s clarification removes any doubt.

Hmmm... Actually... As he didn't gave a definition of good or evil
one could argue, that everything is good... for someone.
We must not discriminate against fields of endeavor (so people 
wanting to do evil must be able to), but this license doesn't seem

to restrict redistribution, thus making this Good but no Evil
software suited for non- free, no ?


Yes, but as the author didn't define his terms, you can always argue, 
that whatever you do, is something good (for specific definition of 
good), and one could argue, that this phrase is therefore no 
restriction at all.


A quite philosopher way to argue, therefore:



However, I would strongly advise to not package that thing for Debian
main; it smells like problems.



Or did I misread your message ?


Depends on your definition of read and message ;) (Sorry, could not 
resist.)



Best regards,
  Alexander


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Re: The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.

2010-03-28 Thread Joerg Jaspert

 Yes, it's this topic again. I've just had a short mail exchange with 
 crockford 
 himself. His final answer: If you cannot tolerate the license, then do not 
 use the software.

Then his software will simply be not packaged.

-- 
bye, Joerg
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/How_to_win_an_argument


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Re: The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.

2010-03-28 Thread Ben Finney
Thomas Koch tho...@koch.ro writes:

 Yes, it's this topic again. I've just had a short mail exchange with
 crockford himself.

Thank you for pursuing this matter in good faith and trying to get a
satisfactory resolution.

 His final answer: If you cannot tolerate the license, then do not use
 the software.

That's a shame. The license terms are trivially non-free, and the
vagueness of the terms leads to the chilling effect that they don't help
anyone know whether their specific use of the work is infringing the
terms or not.

A pity that the result wasn't better, but at least it's clear. Hopefully
the copyright holder can someday, in spite of evidence to the contrary
from his current statements, learn why these terms are non-free and
dangerously vague.

Thank you again for reporting this decision.

-- 
 \   “The lift is being fixed for the day. During that time we |
  `\regret that you will be unbearable.” —hotel, Bucharest |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney


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Re: The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.

2010-03-27 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 11:56:44PM -0500, Joe Neal a écrit :
 
 http://wonko.com/post/jsmin-isnt-welcome-on-google-code

Hi Joe,

have you seen the comment of Joey Hess, that it ‘Looks like the jsmin.py in
libv8 is now a reimplementation with a standard license.’

Have a nice week-end,

-- 
Charles


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Re: The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.

2010-03-26 Thread Josselin Mouette
Le vendredi 26 mars 2010 à 18:43 +0100, Thomas Koch a écrit : 
 Yes, it's this topic again. I've just had a short mail exchange with 
 crockford 
 himself. His final answer: If you cannot tolerate the license, then do not 
 use the software.
 
 Could you please give me a definitive Yes or No for the below license?


 The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.


Definitely non-free, and the author’s clarification removes any doubt.

Cheers,
-- 
 .''`.  Josselin Mouette
: :' :
`. `'  “If you behave this way because you are blackmailed by someone,
  `-[…] I will see what I can do for you.”  -- Jörg Schilling


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Re: The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.

2010-03-26 Thread Måns Rullgård
Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org writes:

 Le vendredi 26 mars 2010 à 18:43 +0100, Thomas Koch a écrit : 
 Yes, it's this topic again. I've just had a short mail exchange
 with crockford himself. His final answer: If you cannot tolerate
 the license, then do not use the software.
 
 Could you please give me a definitive Yes or No for the below license?

 The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.

 Definitely non-free, and the author's clarification removes any doubt.

It is certainly a bizarre licence, and it is clearly best to regard it
as non-free.  However, I suspect he'd have a very hard time enforcing
it in court.

IANAL

-- 
Måns Rullgård
m...@mansr.com


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Re: The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.

2010-03-26 Thread Alexander Reichle-Schmehl
Hi!


Josselin Mouette schrieb:

 Yes, it's this topic again. I've just had a short mail exchange with 
 crockford 
 himself. His final answer: If you cannot tolerate the license, then do not 
 use the software.

 Could you please give me a definitive Yes or No for the below license?
[..]
 The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.
 Definitely non-free, and the author’s clarification removes any doubt.

Hmmm... Actually... As he didn't gave a definition of good or evil
one could argue, that everything is good... for someone.

However, I would strongly advise to not package that thing for Debian
main; it smells like problems.


Best regards,
  Alexander, not having his ftp-team hat on



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Re: The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.

2010-03-26 Thread Didier 'OdyX' Raboud
Alexander Reichle-Schmehl wrote:
 Josselin Mouette schrieb:
 Definitely non-free, and the author’s clarification removes any doubt.
 
 Hmmm... Actually... As he didn't gave a definition of good or evil
 one could argue, that everything is good... for someone.
 
 However, I would strongly advise to not package that thing for Debian
 main; it smells like problems.

We must not discriminate against fields of endeavor (so people wanting to do 
evil must be able to), but this license doesn't seem to restrict 
redistribution, thus making this Good but no Evil software suited for non-
free, no ?

Or did I misread your message ?

OdyX


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Re: The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.

2010-03-26 Thread Joe Neal
 The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.

Neither term has any objective meaning and there is no shortage of people with 
philosophy phds willing to state such as their expert opinion.  Assuming good 
and evil are both subjective terms, the license merely states that The 
Software shall be used for some task to be assigned a moral value by a third 
party at a later point in time.  

If the author wishes to toss around terms like good and evil  and claim 
the existence of any higher morality he should establish the grounding for 
such in the text of the license. 

It's meaningless claptrap.  Ignore it.

Sorry, I'm not a DD and know I have no say here.  I just couldn't pass this 
up.

JN



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Re: The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil.

2010-03-26 Thread Joe Neal
It looks like the guy makes exceptions anyway:

 Douglas: That's an interesting point. Also about once a year, I get a
 letter from a lawyer, every year a different lawyer, at a company--I don't
 want to embarrass the company by saying their name, so I'll just say their
 initials--IBM...

 [laughter]

 ...saying that they want to use something I wrote. Because I put this on
 everything I write, now. They want to use something that I wrote in
 something that they wrote, and they were pretty sure they weren't going to
 use it for evil, but they couldn't say for sure about their customers. So
 could I give them a special license for that?

 Of course. So I wrote back--this happened literally two weeks ago--I give
 permission for IBM, its customers, partners, and minions, to use JSLint for
 evil.

http://wonko.com/post/jsmin-isnt-welcome-on-google-code


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