Bug#513382: closed by Sune Vuorela (Re: Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server)
On Tuesday 07 April 2009, Roger Leigh wrote: > On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 01:19:53AM +0200, Sune Vuorela wrote: > > you would prefer if they used oracle or postgresql? > > I really think using mysql is much better than reimplementing a fast > > storage that allows concurrent access. > > Depending on /any/ database *server* is not acceptable. It should > be using the *client interface* like every other program out there. > This means either the client program, client library, or some other > database abstraction library are used to connect to the server. It is actually using an abstraction, the Qt SQL plugin system and the database access code is also quite centralized. Adding support for other database engines is possible, just not that high on the priority list as getting the rest of the infrastruture running and porting the applications. Once support for more than one database engine is available, it might be possible to create a meta package and have it provided by several database packages. > If it wants to embed a server, then sqlite exists for just this > purpose. There is also mysql embedded, but unfortunately it doesn't work reliably enough either (IIRC it doesn't support transactions). Starting a local mysql instance is basically a workaround that provides the necessary features in a reliable way and does not require administrator level settings like using a system daemon. (this is supported though) > Directly running an entire database server instance for a single > client is *wrong*, bloated and broken design. And I'm forced to > run a system mysql instance unless I take special steps to > disable it, with all the security issues that implies. No thanks. As Sune already wrote it is unfortunate that the mysql server package also contains the global startup mechanism. Makes sense if running a single instance is the only use case, but obviously breaks for others. Cheers, Kevin -- Kevin Krammer, KDE developer, xdg-utils developer KDE user support, developer mentoring signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Bug#513382: closed by Sune Vuorela (Re: Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server)
On Tuesday 07 April 2009 09:26:59 Roger Leigh wrote: > > you would prefer if they used oracle or postgresql? > > I really think using mysql is much better than reimplementing a fast > > storage that allows concurrent access. > > Depending on /any/ database *server* is not acceptable. It should > be using the *client interface* like every other program out there. > This means either the client program, client library, or some other > database abstraction library are used to connect to the server. It uses the client interface like any other program out there to a *local* database. Currently, only mysql is supported. > If it wants to embed a server, then sqlite exists for just this > purpose. Then please fix sqlite to be fast and deadlock free when accessed from multiple processes and threads. > Directly running an entire database server instance for a single > client is *wrong*, bloated and broken design. And I'm forced to > run a system mysql instance unless I take special steps to > disable it, with all the security issues that implies. No thanks. I have several times approached mysql maintainers to make it possible to create a version that does not start a system daemon as well. Akonadi starts its own instance as user. > > > kde[4] -> kdepim -> korganizer -> akonadi-server -> mysql-server > > > > Without akonadi-server, korganizer won't work. > > Very soon, kmail will also require akonadi-server. > > Akonadi is here to stay. > > Then these packages must be removed from the appropriate kde > metapackages until they are fixed. Nothing here is broken, so nothing to fix. > Installing mysql is *simply not acceptable*. > > This might be something the Technical Committee could look at; > I won't find anything other than the removal of this dependency > acceptable. Oh well. Just take it to tech-ctte then. As said, Akonadi uses mysql-server and akonadi is here to stay. /Sune -- Genius, I cannot boot the mailer, how does it work? First of all from X-Windows you neither should debug a AGP system, nor should doubleclick the sendmail to overclock the URL of a 47X driver. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [email protected] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [email protected]
Bug#513382: closed by Sune Vuorela (Re: Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server)
On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 01:19:53AM +0200, Sune Vuorela wrote: > On Tuesday 07 April 2009 00:22:33 Roger Leigh wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 02:55:26PM +, Debian Bug Tracking System wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:51:19 +0100 > > > From: Sune Vuorela > > > Subject: Re: Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > No. this is how akonadi at least currently work and it is a > > > design decision upstream to do it this way. > > > > Then, respectfully, upstream do need to have their heads examined. > > > > Using the mysql client libraries would be understandable, but > > this is just completely objectionable. > > > > I don't want a trace of mysql near my system, but I would like to > > use kde4. Optional mysql database bindings for the server would > > be preferable so I don't even need the mysql client libraries > > installed. Really. > > you would prefer if they used oracle or postgresql? > I really think using mysql is much better than reimplementing a fast storage > that allows concurrent access. Depending on /any/ database *server* is not acceptable. It should be using the *client interface* like every other program out there. This means either the client program, client library, or some other database abstraction library are used to connect to the server. If it wants to embed a server, then sqlite exists for just this purpose. Directly running an entire database server instance for a single client is *wrong*, bloated and broken design. And I'm forced to run a system mysql instance unless I take special steps to disable it, with all the security issues that implies. No thanks. > > kde[4] -> kdepim -> korganizer -> akonadi-server -> mysql-server > > Without akonadi-server, korganizer won't work. > Very soon, kmail will also require akonadi-server. > Akonadi is here to stay. Then these packages must be removed from the appropriate kde metapackages until they are fixed. Installing mysql is *simply not acceptable*. This might be something the Technical Committee could look at; I won't find anything other than the removal of this dependency acceptable. Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `-GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [email protected] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [email protected]
Bug#513382: closed by Sune Vuorela (Re: Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server)
On Tuesday 07 April 2009, Sune Vuorela wrote: > On Tuesday 07 April 2009 00:22:33 Roger Leigh wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 02:55:26PM +, Debian Bug Tracking System wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:51:19 +0100 > > > From: Sune Vuorela > > > Subject: Re: Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > No. this is how akonadi at least currently work and it is a > > > design decision upstream to do it this way. > > > > Then, respectfully, upstream do need to have their heads examined. > > > > Using the mysql client libraries would be understandable, but > > this is just completely objectionable. > > > > I don't want a trace of mysql near my system, but I would like to > > use kde4. Optional mysql database bindings for the server would > > be preferable so I don't even need the mysql client libraries > > installed. Really. > > you would prefer if they used oracle or postgresql? > I really think using mysql is much better than reimplementing a fast > storage that allows concurrent access. > > http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/PIM/Akonadi#Which_DBMS_does_Akonadi_use.3F A quick update on that: quite recently some new contributor provided patches for using sqlite instead. Unforuntately the situation with respect to sqlite hasn't changed yet, e.g. it still deadlocks. However it shows that the code can support different database engines, so assuming some body contributes the code for postgresql or something else those might become options in the future. > > > No value in keeping this bug open. > > > > You might want to reconsider not pulling in the mysql server package > > into the default kde install by not including akonadi-server > > in the metapackage dependencies. The current requirement to run > > mysql is horrible in the extreme. > > > > kde[4] -> kdepim -> korganizer -> akonadi-server -> mysql-server > > Without akonadi-server, korganizer won't work. Not entirely correct, i.e. Korganizer of 4.2 does not, Korganizer of 4.3 will. KPilot already requires Akonadi though. Anyway, this is just nitpicking. The Akonadi server is a runtime requirement of the Akonadi KDE libraries, which are part of the KDE platform. > Very soon, kmail will also require akonadi-server. True, we hope this to happen with 4.4, there are still huge porting efforst ahead. > Akonadi is here to stay. Indeed. It is a pity we didn't have the resources to do more app porting already, but it seems we are on a good track for 4.3 Cheers, Kevin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Bug#513382: closed by Sune Vuorela (Re: Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server)
On Tuesday 07 April 2009 00:22:33 Roger Leigh wrote: > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 02:55:26PM +, Debian Bug Tracking System wrote: > > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:51:19 +0100 > > From: Sune Vuorela > > Subject: Re: Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server > > To: [email protected] > > > > No. this is how akonadi at least currently work and it is a > > design decision upstream to do it this way. > > Then, respectfully, upstream do need to have their heads examined. > > Using the mysql client libraries would be understandable, but > this is just completely objectionable. > > I don't want a trace of mysql near my system, but I would like to > use kde4. Optional mysql database bindings for the server would > be preferable so I don't even need the mysql client libraries > installed. Really. you would prefer if they used oracle or postgresql? I really think using mysql is much better than reimplementing a fast storage that allows concurrent access. http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/PIM/Akonadi#Which_DBMS_does_Akonadi_use.3F > > No value in keeping this bug open. > > You might want to reconsider not pulling in the mysql server package > into the default kde install by not including akonadi-server > in the metapackage dependencies. The current requirement to run > mysql is horrible in the extreme. > > kde[4] -> kdepim -> korganizer -> akonadi-server -> mysql-server Without akonadi-server, korganizer won't work. Very soon, kmail will also require akonadi-server. Akonadi is here to stay. > Ouch! Totally not acceptable. > > > > Thanks, > Roger > > -- > .''`. Roger Leigh > > : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ > > `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ >`-GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. -- How may I reinstall the system? First from the options inside MkLinuxPPC you should never click on a system to a display to link the head. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [email protected] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [email protected]
Bug#513382: closed by Sune Vuorela (Re: Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server)
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 02:55:26PM +, Debian Bug Tracking System wrote: > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 15:51:19 +0100 > From: Sune Vuorela > Subject: Re: Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server > To: [email protected] > > No. this is how akonadi at least currently work and it is a > design decision upstream to do it this way. Then, respectfully, upstream do need to have their heads examined. Using the mysql client libraries would be understandable, but this is just completely objectionable. I don't want a trace of mysql near my system, but I would like to use kde4. Optional mysql database bindings for the server would be preferable so I don't even need the mysql client libraries installed. Really. > No value in keeping this bug open. You might want to reconsider not pulling in the mysql server package into the default kde install by not including akonadi-server in the metapackage dependencies. The current requirement to run mysql is horrible in the extreme. kde[4] -> kdepim -> korganizer -> akonadi-server -> mysql-server Ouch! Totally not acceptable. Thanks, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `-GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [email protected] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [email protected]
Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server
On Wednesday 28 January 2009, Marcus Better wrote: > Xavier Vello wrote: > >> This is about akonadi-server pulling in the > >> *system-wide* MySQL server that Akonadi does not use at all: > > > > akonadi needs /usr/sbin/mysqld provided by the mysql-server-* packages, > > and runs it with a custom configuration. There is no automatic way to use > > the system-wide mysql, but you are free to code one and include it > > upstream. > > Akonadi should probably allow configuration of other data sources, if it > doesn't already. But that's a different issue. Just to avoid misunderstanding: the database it not a data source for Akonadi, it is mainly its cache. There is no designed dependency on any specific database, but this approach is the first which has worked properly. Other approaches had problems with multithreading and/or transactions and/or performance in general. There have been reports that somebody got it working with postgresql, though respective patches, if the exist, have not been incorporated yet. I've seen a couple of people announce that they would try to tune sqlite accordingly but I haven't seen anyone reporting success yet. Cheers, Kevin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server
Xavier Vello wrote: >> This is about akonadi-server pulling in the >> *system-wide* MySQL server that Akonadi does not use at all: > akonadi needs /usr/sbin/mysqld provided by the mysql-server-* packages, > and runs it with a custom configuration. There is no automatic way to use the > system-wide mysql, but you are free to code one and include it upstream. Akonadi should probably allow configuration of other data sources, if it doesn't already. But that's a different issue. > About having two mysqld running, this is because the mysql-server-* packages > launch it by default. There is nothing the pkg-kde team can do about it, feel > free to bug the mysql packaging team to get a package installing > /usr/sbin/mysqld without the init scripts. Absolutely, I will open a bug. This is not so uncommon, for instance the Tomcat packages work this way. Cheers, Marcus signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server
> > No. this is how akonadi at least currently work and it is a design > > decision upstream to do it this way. > > No, I think you are mistaken. This is about akonadi-server pulling in the > *system-wide* MySQL server that Akonadi does not use at all: akonadi needs /usr/sbin/mysqld provided by the mysql-server-* packages, and runs it with a custom configuration. There is no automatic way to use the system-wide mysql, but you are free to code one and include it upstream. About having two mysqld running, this is because the mysql-server-* packages launch it by default. There is nothing the pkg-kde team can do about it, feel free to bug the mysql packaging team to get a package installing /usr/sbin/mysqld without the init scripts. -- Xavier Vello -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [email protected] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [email protected]
Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server
reopen 513382 thanks Sune Vuorela wrote: > No. this is how akonadi at least currently work and it is a design decision > upstream to do it this way. No, I think you are mistaken. This is about akonadi-server pulling in the *system-wide* MySQL server that Akonadi does not use at all: ~$ ps axu|grep mysqld root 8652 0.0 0.0 10200 556 ?S10:02 0:00 /bin/sh /usr/bin/mysqld_safe mysql 8772 0.0 0.0 159312 2236 ?Sl 10:02 0:06 /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/usr -- datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --log-error=/var/lib/mysql/better.err --pid-file=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid -- socket=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock --port=3306 marcus 23253 0.0 0.8 213112 31784 ?Sl 15:09 0:02 /usr/sbin/mysqld --defaults- file=/home/marcus/.local/share/akonadi//mysql.conf --datadir=/home/marcus/.local/share/akonadi/db_data/ -- socket=/home/marcus/.local/share/akonadi/db_misc/mysql.socket The first mysqld is a system-wide process that is of no use at all to akonadi-server, IIUC.This is not an upstream issue. Cheers, Marcus signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Processed: Re: Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server
Processing commands for [email protected]: > reopen 513382 Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server Bug reopened, originator not changed. > thanks Stopping processing here. Please contact me if you need assistance. Debian bug tracking system administrator (administrator, Debian Bugs database) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [email protected] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [email protected]
Bug#513382: akonadi-server: depends on mysql-server
Package: akonadi-server Version: 1.1.1-1 Severity: important The dependency on mysql-server means that at least *two* mysqld processes will be started: one system-wide and one embedded in Akonadi (per KDE user!). That is already two more than I want, but definitely one more than asked for. akonadi-server should be able to start just the embedded MySQL, similar to how various packages start embedded Tomcat or Jetty instances without depending on the system-wide server package. (Perhaps some refactoring of the MySQL packages is needed?) Even better, it should use some more light-weight embedded database engine. -- System Information: Debian Release: 5.0 APT prefers testing APT policy: (990, 'testing'), (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Kernel: Linux 2.6.28.1-melech (SMP w/2 CPU cores; PREEMPT) Locale: LANG=sv_SE.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=sv_SE.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash Versions of packages akonadi-server depends on: ii libakonadiprivate1 1.1.1-1 libraries for the Akonadi PIM stor ii libboost-program-options1.34 1.34.1-14 program options library for C++ ii libc62.7-18 GNU C Library: Shared libraries ii libgcc1 1:4.3.2-1.1 GCC support library ii libqt4-dbus 4.4.3-2 Qt 4 D-Bus module ii libqt4-sql-mysql 4.4.3-2 Qt 4 MySQL database driver ii libqtcore4 4.4.3-2 Qt 4 core module ii libstdc++6 4.3.2-1.1 The GNU Standard C++ Library v3 ii mysql-server 5.1.30-2MySQL database server (metapackage ii mysql-server-5.1 [mysql-serv 5.1.30-2MySQL database server binaries akonadi-server recommends no packages. akonadi-server suggests no packages. -- no debconf information -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [email protected] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [email protected]
