Re: [AO discussion] ug text recommendation
Anders - I just tried visiting http://imgi.uibk.ac.at/MEhrendorfer/reseach/talks/o_talks/ and received a "not found" error. - John On Dec 16, 2007, at 11:56 AM, Persson Anders wrote: Shafer, At http://imgi.uibk.ac.at/MEhrendorfer/reseach/talks/o_talks/ you will find some ppt-presentations of mine labled "7 sins" or "Dyn Met" which address some, in my view, fundamental errors in the teaching of dynamic meteorology, not only today but some generations back in time. The emphasis has always been on the formal mathematical derivations and not also on the physical understanding. It seems that the idea has been that if you can do the mathematical derivation correctly, you have also understood the physics of he system. Anders From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Noboru Nakamura Sent: Thu 13/12/2007 10:19 To: [email protected]; Shafer Smith Subject: Re: [AO discussion] ug text recommendation Shafer, I think the recommendation depends on your course's emphasis. At the level you are aiming at, I assume "weather/climate" cannot be just fluid dynamics but has to present the atmosphere and ocean (plus geosphere and biosphere) as interacting elements of the climate system, including the radiation balance of the planet. I only looked at the precursor version of Marshall and Plumb on the web and they seem to attempt at this, but yes perhaps at a somewhat advanced level. I too in the past looked for a good undergraduate text on the subject, and I wasn't completely satisfied. Wells (2nd Ed) is a decent book (albeit the glitches that other commentators pointed out), but it cannot be a one-stop reference for modern climate dynamics. In the upper-class undergraduate course "Atmosphere and Ocean in Motion," I use Wallace and Hobbs (2nd Ed; the first two chapters are an excellent intro to climate system) and Stewart's open source Physical Oceanography text (http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/ocng_textbook/contents.html) for reading assignments, but I use my own lecture notes and problem sets. Typical lab demonstrations include Coriolis force, sink vortex (hurricanes), Taylor-Proudman vs thermal winds, jetstream, and Stommel-Arons. It will be good if the text fully explains the demonstrations (as in Marshall and Plumb), but a simple show-and-tell is usually enough to grab the students' attention; you can easily expand your lectures around the demos and connect with theories and observations. Maybe we'll talk about these in depth at the upcoming teaching workshop. http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~nnn/workshop/ Cheers, Noboru Nakamura Department of Geophysical Sciences University of Chicago Shafer, Yes, I can highly recommend it since it conveys the author's great insight and love of the ocean system. The only black spot is a erroneous explanation of the Coriolis effect, following the common Hadley (1735) explanation, if I remember correctly. Hopefully that has changed in the new edition. For a correct one, consult Roland Stull's book on practical meteorology. Regarding the Hadley explanation, I have just had a paper accepted by the Roy Met Soc where I show that it not only partly wrong, but 100% wrong: the differences of speeds of the latitudes has NOTHING at all to do with the Coriolis effect. There is also a good book on dynamics of ocean and atmosphere by a Belgian-American author whose double name I cannot remember just now. Anders -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Remi Tailleux Sent: Wed 12/12/2007 10:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [AO discussion] ug text recommendation Hi Shafer, you may have a look at Neil Wells textbook, Atmosphere/Ocean a physical introduction, Wiley, which although somewhat dated (a new edition is underway), seems an appropriate introduction at the undergrad level you are referring to Good luck, best wishes, Remi. On Dec 12 2007, Shafer Smith wrote: >Dear colleagues, > > I'm looking for a recommendation for an undergraduate text on > weather/climate. In particular, looking for something one notch (or half > notch) lower level than the new book by Marshall and Plumb. As > calibration, the course on which Marshall and Plumb is based at MIT has a > prerequisite of multivariate calculus and physics I; I'm shooting for > something appropriate to students who know 1d calculus and a little > physics. Ideally the course will employ rotating tank demonstrations. Any > comments or recommendations welcome! > >Thanks in advance, >Shafer > > ___ discuss mailing list [email protected] http://www.atmosocean.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ discuss mailing list disc
Re: [AO discussion] ug text recommendation
Dear Shafer, May I venture to suggest one of the few places where there's an intelligible non-mathematicians' explanation of the Rossby-wave mechanism (showing why it's ubiquitous as well as important)? http://www.atm.damtp.cam.ac.uk/people/mem/papers/ECMWF/ If you want to cut straight to the relevant bit, it's precisely at http://www.atm.damtp.cam.ac.uk/people/mem/papers/ECMWF/#movie where in case your emailer messes it up, the symbol before "movie" is a hash. Best wishes, Michael McIntyre On Wed, 12 Dec 2007, Shafer Smith wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I'm looking for a recommendation for an undergraduate text on > weather/climate. In particular, looking for something one notch (or > half notch) lower level than the new book by Marshall and Plumb. As > calibration, the course on which Marshall and Plumb is based at MIT has > a prerequisite of multivariate calculus and physics I; I'm shooting for > something appropriate to students who know 1d calculus and a little > physics. Ideally the course will employ rotating tank demonstrations. > Any comments or recommendations welcome! > > Thanks in advance, > Shafer ___ discuss mailing list [email protected] http://www.atmosocean.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [AO discussion] ug text recommendation
Shafer, I think the recommendation depends on your course's emphasis. At the level you are aiming at, I assume "weather/climate" cannot be just fluid dynamics but has to present the atmosphere and ocean (plus geosphere and biosphere) as interacting elements of the climate system, including the radiation balance of the planet. I only looked at the precursor version of Marshall and Plumb on the web and they seem to attempt at this, but yes perhaps at a somewhat advanced level. I too in the past looked for a good undergraduate text on the subject, and I wasn't completely satisfied. Wells (2nd Ed) is a decent book (albeit the glitches that other commentators pointed out), but it cannot be a one-stop reference for modern climate dynamics. In the upper-class undergraduate course "Atmosphere and Ocean in Motion," I use Wallace and Hobbs (2nd Ed; the first two chapters are an excellent intro to climate system) and Stewart's open source Physical Oceanography text (http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/ resources/ocng_textbook/contents.html) for reading assignments, but I use my own lecture notes and problem sets. Typical lab demonstrations include Coriolis force, sink vortex (hurricanes), Taylor-Proudman vs thermal winds, jetstream, and Stommel-Arons. It will be good if the text fully explains the demonstrations (as in Marshall and Plumb), but a simple show-and-tell is usually enough to grab the students' attention; you can easily expand your lectures around the demos and connect with theories and observations. Maybe we'll talk about these in depth at the upcoming teaching workshop. http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~nnn/workshop/ Cheers, Noboru Nakamura Department of Geophysical Sciences University of Chicago Shafer, Yes, I can highly recommend it since it conveys the author's great insight and love of the ocean system. The only black spot is a erroneous explanation of the Coriolis effect, following the common Hadley (1735) explanation, if I remember correctly. Hopefully that has changed in the new edition. For a correct one, consult Roland Stull's book on practical meteorology. Regarding the Hadley explanation, I have just had a paper accepted by the Roy Met Soc where I show that it not only partly wrong, but 100% wrong: the differences of speeds of the latitudes has NOTHING at all to do with the Coriolis effect. There is also a good book on dynamics of ocean and atmosphere by a Belgian-American author whose double name I cannot remember just now. Anders -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Remi Tailleux Sent: Wed 12/12/2007 10:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [AO discussion] ug text recommendation Hi Shafer, you may have a look at Neil Wells textbook, Atmosphere/Ocean a physical introduction, Wiley, which although somewhat dated (a new edition is underway), seems an appropriate introduction at the undergrad level you are referring to Good luck, best wishes, Remi. On Dec 12 2007, Shafer Smith wrote: >Dear colleagues, > > I'm looking for a recommendation for an undergraduate text on > weather/climate. In particular, looking for something one notch (or half > notch) lower level than the new book by Marshall and Plumb. As > calibration, the course on which Marshall and Plumb is based at MIT has a > prerequisite of multivariate calculus and physics I; I'm shooting for > something appropriate to students who know 1d calculus and a little > physics. Ideally the course will employ rotating tank demonstrations. Any > comments or recommendations welcome! > >Thanks in advance, >Shafer > > ___ discuss mailing list [email protected] http://www.atmosocean.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ discuss mailing list [email protected] http://www.atmosocean.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ discuss mailing list [email protected] http://www.atmosocean.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [AO discussion] ug text recommendation
Shafer, Take a look at "Applied Atmospheric Dynamics" by Amanda Lynch and John Cassano. It may be at a lower level than you are looking for. Best wishes, Jeff --- Jeffrey Weiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Dec 12, 2007, at 9:32 PM, Shafer Smith wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I'm looking for a recommendation for an undergraduate text on > weather/climate. In particular, > looking for something one notch (or half notch) lower level than > the new book by Marshall and Plumb. > As calibration, the course on which Marshall and Plumb is based at > MIT has a prerequisite of > multivariate calculus and physics I; I'm shooting for something > appropriate to students who know 1d > calculus and a little physics. Ideally the course will employ > rotating tank demonstrations. Any > comments or recommendations welcome! > > Thanks in advance, > Shafer > > -- > > > > Shafer Smith > Center for Atmosphere Ocean Science > Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences > New York University > 212.998.3176 > > ___ > discuss mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.atmosocean.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ discuss mailing list [email protected] http://www.atmosocean.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [AO discussion] ug text recommendation
Hi Shafer, I'm interested in hearing the results from your request! Jessica At 12:32 PM 12/12/2007, you wrote: >Dear colleagues, > >I'm looking for a recommendation for an undergraduate text on >weather/climate. In particular, >looking for something one notch (or half notch) lower level than the >new book by Marshall and Plumb. >As calibration, the course on which Marshall and Plumb is based at >MIT has a prerequisite of >multivariate calculus and physics I; I'm shooting for something >appropriate to students who know 1d >calculus and a little physics. Ideally the course will employ >rotating tank demonstrations. Any >comments or recommendations welcome! > >Thanks in advance, >Shafer > >-- > > > >Shafer Smith >Center for Atmosphere Ocean Science >Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences >New York University >212.998.3176 > >___ >discuss mailing list >[email protected] >http://www.atmosocean.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Jessica Kleiss Graduate Student MPL/SIO/UCSD 8861 Shellback Way, #131 La Jolla, CA 92093-0213 tel: 858-534-0807 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ discuss mailing list [email protected] http://www.atmosocean.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [AO discussion] ug text recommendation
Hi Shafer, you may have a look at Neil Wells textbook, Atmosphere/Ocean a physical introduction, Wiley, which although somewhat dated (a new edition is underway), seems an appropriate introduction at the undergrad level you are referring to Good luck, best wishes, Remi. On Dec 12 2007, Shafer Smith wrote: >Dear colleagues, > > I'm looking for a recommendation for an undergraduate text on > weather/climate. In particular, looking for something one notch (or half > notch) lower level than the new book by Marshall and Plumb. As > calibration, the course on which Marshall and Plumb is based at MIT has a > prerequisite of multivariate calculus and physics I; I'm shooting for > something appropriate to students who know 1d calculus and a little > physics. Ideally the course will employ rotating tank demonstrations. Any > comments or recommendations welcome! > >Thanks in advance, >Shafer > > ___ discuss mailing list [email protected] http://www.atmosocean.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
