Re: [Distutils] Future of setuptools and buildout

2016-08-20 Thread David Cournapeau
On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 6:30 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 20 August 2016 at 02:46, Chris Barker wrote: > > Maybe the alternative to setuptools_lite is to set up one of these other > > tools to work well (easily) for building python packages. If it can

Re: [Distutils] Future of setuptools and buildout

2016-08-20 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 20 August 2016 at 02:46, Chris Barker wrote: > Maybe the alternative to setuptools_lite is to set up one of these other > tools to work well (easily) for building python packages. If it can do > everything that setuptools can do (that we want setuptools to do), and just

Re: [Distutils] Future of setuptools and buildout

2016-08-19 Thread Chris Barker
On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 10:17 PM, Wes Turner wrote: > setuptools does all of these, yes? but think of these in terms of when >> they come into play: >> >> build time: >>- building a package >> > > - building c extensions > - building NumPy (fortran,) > exactly! which

Re: [Distutils] Future of setuptools and buildout

2016-08-18 Thread Wes Turner
On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Chris Barker wrote: > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 6:45 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > >> And a while back I argued against setuptools-lite, because I thought it >> would not solve the poor extensibility problem that stems from its

Re: [Distutils] Future of setuptools and buildout

2016-08-18 Thread Wes Turner
Re: buildout and pip and wheel "Add support for installing wheels" https://github.com/buildout/buildout/issues/144 It's been awhile since I've worked with buildout (for Zope 2, Plone, AppEngine zipimports). This reads #egg= links from pip requirements files: -

Re: [Distutils] Future of setuptools and buildout

2016-08-18 Thread Chris Barker
On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 6:45 PM, Daniel Holth wrote: > And a while back I argued against setuptools-lite, because I thought it > would not solve the poor extensibility problem that stems from its basic > distutils derived design... which includes all the classes and subclasses

Re: [Distutils] Future of setuptools and buildout

2016-08-17 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 18 August 2016 at 11:45, Daniel Holth wrote: > One "lite" version of setuptools that I personally think would be cool would > be pkg_resources as a separate package on pypi. Setuptools would require it > as a dependency. I finally managed to relocate a discussion Jason,

Re: [Distutils] Future of setuptools and buildout

2016-08-17 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 18 August 2016 at 08:18, Chris Barker wrote: > IF there were a setuptools_lite, user could simply do: > > import setuptools_lite as setuptools > > and they'd instantly get an error if they were using depreciated features, > and their end users would never accidently easy

Re: [Distutils] Future of setuptools and buildout

2016-08-17 Thread Daniel Holth
And a while back I argued against setuptools-lite, because I thought it would not solve the poor extensibility problem that stems from its basic distutils derived design... which includes all the classes and subclasses that have to work together to do its thing. My own thinking is that setuptools

Re: [Distutils] Future of setuptools and buildout

2016-08-17 Thread Chris Barker
> > Which brings us to a question that I'm meaning to ask for a while. > > It looks like we're close to removing all mentions of setuptools in pip. > When this happens, it looks like pressure is going to start to mount on > setuptools to drop the ability to install packages and limit itself on >

Re: [Distutils] Future of setuptools and buildout

2016-08-16 Thread Paul Moore
On 16 August 2016 at 17:58, Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote: > Questions: > > 1. Is the future outlined above considered likely? I can't speak for setuptools, but certainly pip is intended to be the canonical installer for Python. It's not impossible for competing tools like

Re: [Distutils] Future of setuptools and buildout

2016-08-16 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Aug 16, 2016, at 12:58 PM, Leonardo Rochael Almeida > wrote: > > Spinning this off into its own thread... > > On 16 August 2016 at 13:10, Donald Stufft > wrote: > >> On Aug 16, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Leonardo Rochael

Re: [Distutils] Future of setuptools and buildout

2016-08-16 Thread Daniel Holth
There are two proposals to add pluggable build systems to Python sdists, and one of them will probably be implemented. You add a pyproject.toml to the root of your sdist, which the installer uses to install dependencies that setup.py itself needs to run. Second, you also tell pip which build