EV Digest 3580

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: EV business proposal ...
        by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) TdS Report #29: Exhibitor:  Ford Escape Hybrid
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  3) TdS Report #30: Exhibitor:  Honda GX
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  4) TdS Report #31: Exhibitor: NJ Transit Hybrid-Electric Bus
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  5) TdS Report #32: Photos - NJ Transit Hybrid-Electric Bus
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  6) Re: Corbin Sparrow AC Drive
        by seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: ok, i give where do ev'rs keep there spare tire?
        by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: LED battery voltage display-I don't understand.
        by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Max power transfer, Racing on a budget
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 10) Re: Emergency Disconnect & a New SCR Afterburner!
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) OTS A few thoughts on tires and fix a flat
        by Jack Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Importing EV's  to the US,    Re: EV business proposal ...
        by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) who is behind electriccars.com
        by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Shorting contactor
        by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) EV vs Gas HP comparo...Revisited
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Anyone Know who is behind electriccars.com?
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: ok, i give where do ev'rs keep there spare tire?
        by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: ok, i give where do ev'rs keep there spare tire?
        by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: ok, i give where do ev'rs keep there spare tire?
        by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: ok, i give where do ev'rs keep there spare tire?
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Max power transfer, Racing on a budget
        by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re general electric 9 inch
        by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) [[JUNK]] RE: Protected message
        by "Visitor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: 1000+ mile EV project
        by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: How many battery amps?
        by "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) using circuit breakers in series?
        by George Tylinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shawn Rutledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: EV business proposal ...
> Definitely.  
> > Cars looklike this:
> > www.fevt.com\cars\rellut.jpg
> > www.fevt.com\cars\etukuva.jpg   (300 pcs made totally and ~70 pcs available now)
> Is that the one you're talking about selling for $18k?

Yes. 

Situation with those Clios is that many companies in Europe are trying to get them 
sold at any price they can get. There's no good option to buy new NiCads for cheap. 
Since SAFT cells keep braking down no one want's to buy those anymore. This is what 
I've been told by the previous owners. There should be few hundred available at the 
moment.

We had an idea to offer easy to install battery pack (EP) made with LiIons to these 
customers. But there's still many who just don't believe on EVs anymore. (SAD) They 
aim for hybrids. (even sadder)

This is our chance to get cheap and almost unused EVs. For example we sold those two 
Clios for 18kUSD /piece or so. Including battery system and whole car. A turn key 
solution. We could have asked more price but it wouldn't actually help EVs. 

Our main income is from industrial battery systems for other vehicles than cars. 
Wheelcahirs, automated robots, forklifts etc.

Clio has 16 kW DC motor made by ABB. 160 VDC system (max) and 120 VDC (nominal). Basic 
electric functions (windows, mirrors..) Big negative point is that there's no air 
conditioning. just basic blower and gas heater. Computer has Swedish or French 
interface. WE are hacking it to be in English too. We can install PowerPack also in 
these cars. Then the new computer is integrated in the batterybox with UltraCaps. 
DVD-player will be then installed in the place where the radio were.

Pricing for Clio + PP is still open since we have not yet designet PP to be in 
produced in volumes. We'll see...

MME could offer upgrade to these Clios too. Siemens AC system + Li-Ions. Since the 
chassis is in good condition it's worth upgrading. 

Still all this regarding these cars is theory considering US markets until we have 
made few successfull exports to USA. 

To do this we will need all help we can get regarding US regulations and laws from 
people in there.

t: Jukka J.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #29: Exhibitor:  Ford Escape Hybrid

Ford loaned the Tour de Sol an Escape Hybrid for the couple of days before the
Burlington Festival, so we saw it driving around, running errands while the
teams arrived and got settled.  There is very little about it that screams
"different".

On the dash board, the tachometer has an EV band below zero RPM, where the car
is driving in pure electric mode.  There is also a charging/assisting needle
with zero in the middle of the range.  There is (of course) a little LCD
monitor in the middle of the dash which serves many functions, including
displaying an animation of the energy flow between the Engine, the Motor, the
HV battery and the wheels.  But other than that, presumably if you don't notice
those differences the rest of the car looks, feels and operates like the
non-hybrid Escape.

I wasn't able to get an interview about the car, but was pointed at the web
site:
        http://www.fordvehicles.com/escapehybrid/

which provides lots of information.  For example, from the FAQ page:

        Will there be an extended warranty on the battery?

        Unique Hybrid components such as the High Voltage Battery,
        Electronically Controlled Continuously Variable Transmission, and DC/DC
        converter will have an additional warranty coverage of 8 years/ 100,000
        miles (10 years, 150,000 miles in PZEV states were required by law).
        This is in addition to the standard Ford Warranty coverages like the
        Bumper-to-Bumper 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, Roadside Assistance,
        Tires, Corrosion Protection, Safety Restraints and Emissions.

 -      -       -       -
 The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2004 can be found at:
             http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2004
 The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
             http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
 -      -       -       -
 The above is Copyright 2004 by Michael H. Bianchi.
 Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
 without modification and this notice remains attached.
 For other arrangements, contact me at  +1-973-822-2085 .
 -      -       -       -
 For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
                        http://www.TourdeSol.org
 -      -       -       -
 Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
 the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
  413 774-6051 , and  50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] .  All media enquiries should be addressed to ...

        Jack Groh
        Tour de Sol Communications Director
        P.O. Box 6044
        Warwick, RI  02887-6044

        401 732-1551
        401 732-0547 fax
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #30: Exhibitor:  Honda GX

There are many ways to improve the emissions and fuel economy of cars, and we
are seeing more and more of those ways finding there way from specialty and
fleet applications towards the general public.

Barry Carr, with America Honda Motor Company, exhibited the Honda GX natural
gas car at the TdS Burlington Festival.  "It only runs on Compressed Natural
Gas (CNG).  The tank is pressurized to 3600 PSI.  It has a range of
approximately 240 miles.  The fueling nozzle is different but the fueling time
is about the same as for gasoline; 2 or 3 minutes.  The gas cylinder does take
up some of the trunk space, so there isn't nearly as much trunk room as you
would expect."  Barry said that tank is quite strong.  In an accident that
rear-ended a Honda GX such that the tank wound up in the back seat, the tank
did not rupture.  ((Certainly the same could not be said for a gas tank in an
equivalent crash.))  "Even if the tank where to rupture, natural gas is much
lighter than air, so it would rise."  The list price is $20,700.

The advantages of having a CNG car include maintenance savings.  "CNG burns
much hotter and much cleaner with less emissions, Honda recommends changing the
oil every 10,000 miles.  CNG is 130 octane.  And the emissions are 94% less,
so fleet owners also get EPAct (Energy Policy Act) credits.  This is also the
cleanest production vehicle on earth.  The Honda Insight is second.  In
California consumers can purchase the GX; it isn't available on the east coast
for consumers yet, but fleet customers can buy it."

"The fuel costs are lower also; 30-40 cents a gallon.  I average 38 MPG on the
highway, 32 in the city."

There is now a home fueling station that uses a slow speed compressor to fill
the car from the home's natural gas supply, normally used for heat, hot water
and cooking.  Typically it would fill up over night.

 -      -       -       -
 The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2004 can be found at:
             http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2004
 The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
             http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
 -      -       -       -
 The above is Copyright 2004 by Michael H. Bianchi.
 Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
 without modification and this notice remains attached.
 For other arrangements, contact me at  +1-973-822-2085 .
 -      -       -       -
 For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
                        http://www.TourdeSol.org
 -      -       -       -
 Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
 the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
  413 774-6051 , and  50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] .  All media enquiries should be addressed to ...

        Jack Groh
        Tour de Sol Communications Director
        P.O. Box 6044
        Warwick, RI  02887-6044

        401 732-1551
        401 732-0547 fax
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #31: Exhibitor: NJ Transit Hybrid-Electric Bus

I've learned to look off in the corners of the Tour de Sol Festivals.  There I
often find things that are very interesting.  Saturday was no exception.

Chris Moog was standing by a NJ Transit bus with several access panels open.

"It is a diesel electric hybrid with a smaller than engine.  Similar to what
would be in a Dodge pickup truck.  That engine drives a generator, and the
electricity drives two electric motors.  There are 3 high-voltage battery packs
(under the seats) that are sodium nickel chloride hot batteries.  They run at
380 degrees Celsius.  The first one went into service in July 2001, the second
in February, and the third one will go into service in about a
week-and-a-half."

All the non-drive loads (steering pump, air conditioning, power brakes, etc.)
are all driven electrically.  "Whenever the bus is moving the diesel engine is
running.  As soon as the bus stops, the engine stops.  All the accessories keep
operating.  The passengers get off and on.  When the driver touches the
accelerator, the bus starts running electrically and the engine starts."

The engine is 6-cylinders, 5.9 liters Cummins ISB.  Normally it would be 8.3
liters 280 horse power.  "I think this is 240, but I'm not positive.

"We are seeing a 20% fuel economy gain in 30,000 miles of revenue service.
They operate out of the Hamilton NJ garage, just north of Trenton."

While the buses were purchased as part of a demonstration program, they will
stay in service to the end of their useful life, which is 12 years, minimum.

The bus can operate in pure-electric mode, for about 10 miles.  NJ Transit
doesn't operate it that way, but some cities have looked at the silent mode for
historic districts.

The bus was made by a normal manufacturer, Nova, and converted in San Diego by
ISE Corporation.

Angel Cruz is with ISE.  "Each battery holds 20 kiloWatt-hours, for a total of
60.  They energy density is very high and they are designed for hybrids.  And
they are safe.

"We also offer buses that use ultra-capacitors instead of batteries.  They
weigh less and deliver more power, more quickly for better acceleration and
regeneration."

 -      -       -       -
 The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2004 can be found at:
             http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2004
 The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
             http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
 -      -       -       -
 The above is Copyright 2004 by Michael H. Bianchi.
 Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
 without modification and this notice remains attached.
 For other arrangements, contact me at  +1-973-822-2085 .
 -      -       -       -
 For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
                        http://www.TourdeSol.org
 -      -       -       -
 Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
 the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
  413 774-6051 , and  50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] .  All media enquiries should be addressed to ...

        Jack Groh
        Tour de Sol Communications Director
        P.O. Box 6044
        Warwick, RI  02887-6044

        401 732-1551
        401 732-0547 fax
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #32: Photos - NJ Transit Hybrid-Electric Bus

Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
        http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2004/photos_010.html


NJ Transit Hybrid-Electric Bus

It isn't obvious from this picture, but the smaller diesel engine takes up a
less space in the engine compartment.
Also since all the pumps run on electricity, they don't have to be clustered
around the engine, also making for less clutter.

Another view.

 -      -       -       -
 The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2004 can be found at:
             http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2004
 The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
             http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
 -      -       -       -
 The above is Copyright 2004 by Michael H. Bianchi.
 Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
 without modification and this notice remains attached.
 For other arrangements, contact me at  +1-973-822-2085 .
 -      -       -       -
 For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
                        http://www.TourdeSol.org
 -      -       -       -
 Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
 the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
  413 774-6051 , and  50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] .  All media enquiries should be addressed to ...

        Jack Groh
        Tour de Sol Communications Director
        P.O. Box 6044
        Warwick, RI  02887-6044

        401 732-1551
        401 732-0547 fax
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With a 156V system, a guess would be the Solectria powertrain that goes
in a Force and is now sold by Electro Automotive. But that is a guess.

Seth

Tom Shay wrote:
> 
> Corbin Motors made a considerable to do on their
> web site about an AC drive system for Sparrow.
> According to my memory that was during the summer
> of 2002.   The website said as I recall that two
> prototype systems were installed and tested in
> Sparrows.  Details about the system and its performance
> were sketchy.
> 
> It occurred to me at the time that this system might be useful for other
> similar sized EVs.
> 
> Does anybody on this list know about this system and
> whether it might be available for other EVs?

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Carry a can or two of "Fix-a-Flat"

The stuff really works in a tight spot. There was something on the highway
and I had two flat tires.

I used the spare on the worst tire and Fix-a-Flat on the other and was able
to make it to a tire place just in time.

So the Fix-a-Flat works great for temporary situations. I would get two cans
though.

You said that some people cut through the spare tire well. Since the battery
box is that far down you could put the spare on top of that and still have
room for some storage if you have a doughnut spare.


Chip


On 5/24/04 4:06 AM, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 21:29:13 -0700
> To: EVlist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: ok, i give where do ev'rs keep there spare tire?
> 
> And I'm not talking about some of us with soggy midsections :-)  I see a
> lot of photo's of EV's where the battery boxes were cut throug the spare
> tire area. Just wondering what most people do about the spare tire.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Chris Zach wrote:
You can't calculate them, unless you have the LED brightness versus
current and voltage versus current curves. Since this data is not
normally published, you have to pick the resistors by trial and error.

depends on where you get your LED's. But even when they are published, there is often quite a bit of variability around that curve. (Most DigiKey parts have these spec sheets available)

...
Here's how I picked the resistors. Build the circuit using 3 pots for
R1, R2, and R3. Start with all pots at their maximum value (anything
over 1k ohms). Connect it to a good DC power supply (or string of
batteries) to provide a simulated battery voltage that you can adjust.


Ah! Ok. You cheated (so to speak) :-) I've spent most of the weekend with 1,5,10,30,50,and 100 ohm resistors doing similar things.

Note to self: Get some 1k pots.

1. Set the battery to your high voltage limit (like 14.5v). All LEDs
   will be lit. Adjust R3 so the green LED just goes out. Now, as the
   battery voltage goes higher than 14.5v, the green LED will light.

2. Set the battery to your middle voltage limit (like 12.5v). The red
   and yellow LEDs will be lit. Adjust R2 so the yellow LED just goes
   out. Now, as your battery voltage goes above 12.5v, they yellow
   LED will light.

3. Set the battery voltage to your low threshold (like 10.5v). Only
   the red LED will be lit. Adjust R1 so the red LED just barely goes
   out. Now, as your battery voltage goes above 10.5v, the red LED
   lights.

Go back and repeat steps 1, 2, and 3 again. They will interact slightly.


*nod* The interaction was driving me nuts.

Woule it be easiest to make the LED with the LOWEST activation voltage be the one to turn on at the lowest voltage, or the opposite?

My guess is that it would.  If you choose your color scheme according
to the above rule, the resistors will have more similar values...
which would make the R vs LED currents more similar in each pair.
Lowest activation voltage coming on before higher.

I'd immagine that activation voltage tends to go up with frequency,
no?  So red tends to have lower activation voltage than amber,
which is lower than green, which is usually lower than blue?

--
Aaron Birenboim        | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM        |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 5/23/04 9:24:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< The very fastest ICE bike is at 5.88 @ 243 MPH. By comparison, the 
 fastest ICE dragster is at 4.477 @ 332 MPH. Obviously, if built with equal 
 skill, a dragster will be much much quicker and faster than a bike.
 
          The question is, given the EXTREME advantage that a dragster has 
 over a bike, why is your rail just barely quicker than my bike? It should 
 be much much quicker if it were designed as well as my bike. If my bike can 
 pull the low 9's, your rail should be deep into the 7's, if you've built it 
 correctly. Why isn't it? Why is your dragster less than 3/4 of a second 
 quicker than my bike? What's the problem? >>
>You may be correct on the ICE bikes record time however the new ice nitro 
records are 333mph and 4.42et.<Yes there is quite a difference in these 
times,yes these are 2 different type vechicles.You seem to be missing part of the 
equation(its written in my backyard engineer book)HP to WEIGHT ratio.That 1300hp 
bike records engine in a heavy top fuel car(normal hp7000) would net the 9s 
10s?      Your battery pack of boulders gave more power per pound over my jci 
inspiras.You had a much lighter bike 300-400lbs?Yet with my limited avaible hp/lb 
I pushed the heavy CE to a large .75sec advantage.                            
                It seems batteries are your only solution to breaking 
records....Again lets both have the same amount and type of battery on our machines.  
 You can use your pro driver ,I will drive the CE in the race.                
                                                                              
                                REMEMBER my couzin had only driven my 
dragster 4 passes before the red lite and I had turned up the power so the car was 
quicker off the line(easier to red lite)give the kid a break and look at the et 
and mph#s on that run.                                                         
                    Dennis Berube

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,

Kevin Coughlin wrote:

> Just curious, with all the different methods of activating a device -
> what about rigging up an emergency brake lever/cable to open a "Big
> Knife Switch" somewhere safely out of the way. Paint the handle bright
> red.

I am considering using such a device to operate the pull-apart disconnect we've been
working on. The large Ford nine inch rear end fits so snugly in this little car, 
there's
no room for the regular E-brake hardware to fit behind the pumpkin, so the Zombie's 
stock
E-brake handle between the seats is presently non-functional and is available to be 
used
for the disconnect. I have thought about an electric stock picker's electric brake 
system
to use on the front motor as an E-brake. This type of brake is normally held in the
'brake-on' mode by stiff springs, and is released when power is applied to its
coils...just a thought. I may eventually do some metal work mods to simply  make some 
room
to get the Ford E-brake back to being functional...just random musings at this point.

>
> So the question - How many pounds of force does it take to pull open a
> manual disconnect like you have? Do you need force amplification levers
> that are foot activated, or can a straight pull by an adrenalin enriched
> operator's hand suffice?

It's a really nice unit that doesn't take too much hand force to pull....an adrenaline
enriched operator's hand (love that line) works quite well :-)

>
>
> Just thinking - I want to add additional safeties to the car I'm
> restoring - I refuse to trust everything to just ONE disconnect system,
> I need at least two.

One of my primary safety concerns, is that the Afterburner bypass cannot be 
accidentally
kicked in while the car is in the pits if some idiot were to get into the car, turn
everything on, play around with the throttle, and somehow click it 'on'. I've already
designed it so that several driver initiated sequences have to be in place, but the 
manual
disconnect thing is still the single item that makes it totally impossible for an
unintended event to occur. The night of the races, it was left unplugged until the 
moment
we began racing. On the street, it's pulled to make it impossible to select parallel,
floor the accelerator, and engage the bypass...the car simply coasts as it goes dead, 
and
only re-selecting 'series mode', will bring back power through the controller.

Going to the new SCR bypass design, in addition to having the manual disconnect, there
will be a contactor wired in series that pulls in and out off load and only has to 
'carry'
current. This contactor will have a 'closed contacts' microswitch to monitor things and
light up a bright dash light.

Ideally, it would be a good idea to have some sort of rotational sensor that closes 
when
the motors are spinning at say, anything above 1000 rpm so that the SCR's contactor and
the SCR itself, cannot be closed until the car is sufficiently moving.

See Ya ...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland

'Plasma Boy Racing...we blow stuff up, so you don't have to!'

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fix a flat is a great idea if the user remembers that it is a temporary fix for a bad 
situation. Such as you don't want to be where you got stuck or you need to be where 
you are going. A tire should always be taken apart to be repaired and should never be 
repaired with a plug. A plug not only voids the tire warranty, it can break the steel 
tread that helps to keep the tire together, and you may not know the extent of the 
damage, created by the object, that caused the flat in the first place. A flat tire 
may save an expensive rim but fix a flat can ruin a rim from the inside out.   


                
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
     Hi Jukka and All,
        Importing EV's should not be that hard.
        The hardest part is the EPA emissions test
which you don't need to worry about.
        The rest is DOT where you need things like
fasten seatbelt lights, crash bars in doors,
seatbelts, ect that your cars probably already have,
so not much worry there.
        What we call the gray market, european cars
sold here is a thriving industry. Cars built before
1973 can be imported without passing any tests.
        As your cars are easy to do, these car
importers, exporters in you country would do the
nessasary DOT stuff for a reasonable price depending
on model. EPA on the other hand is probably $10,000 by
now or more.
        The work is done in duty free zones at ports
around the country.
        So to find out these I'd start in the biggest
port close to you for shipping agents who ship cars
and can tell you who they ship to for this work.
       Shippers by large US military bases in europe
would be another place to find people doing this.
       Shop around, prices can very a lot.
        I'd guess the work would be under $2,000 plus
the shipping. Big reductions in both the work and
shipping fees is possible if you do several of the
same model at the same time.
       I worked at one in Ft Lauderdale, Fla doing the
DOT work.
        Remove any radios, ect as they get stolen
during shipping. Maybe ship controllers, ect
seperately as they look like stereo power amps and
thieves are not smart.
       Please send the repair manuals with them!!!
               HTH's, 
                 jerry dycus
--- Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, May 21, 2004 at 01:49:41PM +0300, Jukka
> Järvinen wrote:
> > Would you accept 18000 USD price for fully working
> EV with Lithium battery system ? 
> 
> Definitely.  
> > 
> > Cars looklike this:
> > www.fevt.com\cars\rellut.jpg
> > www.fevt.com\cars\etukuva.jpg   (300 pcs made
> totally and ~70 pcs available now)
> 
> Is that the one you're talking about selling for
> $18k?
> 



        
                
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year
http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
does whois info help?


*electriccars.com* * Back-order this name <https://qp.snapnames.com/backorder.sn?aff=211&dom=electriccars.com>
*



Registrant: Archive Media (ELECTRICCARS-DOM) 743 sara dr oxnard, CA 93030 US

Domain Name: ELECTRICCARS.COM

Administrative Contact:
Gast, Bruce (BG968 <http://www.networksolutions.com/en_US/whois/remoteSearch.jhtml?queryType=ha&queryString=BG968>) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Arcive
743 SARA DR
OXNARD, CA 93030-7678
US
805-278-9299 fax: 805-278-9299


Technical Contact:
Dackewicz, Steve (SD9095 <http://www.networksolutions.com/en_US/whois/remoteSearch.jhtml?queryType=ha&queryString=SD9095>) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PO BOX 2215
ARCADIA, CA 91077-2215
US
818-906-2055 fax: 818-906-2082

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--- Begin Message --- what emergancies do they cause?
In in the stuck on condition , especially for the non racer not wanting to have a major disconnect between the seats in a daily driver.
wouldn't it blow the fuse without arc problems? and on series DC it won't skid the motor will it?
doesn't it at least fail, " off " . if a non engineer type thought: ih i can fix that and stuck in a new fuse, it too would blow.






PS engineers can be school trained or experienced trained. just take the EIT ?
both, either, doesn't much matter to me, just a thought

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Hello to All,

A while back, I had posted a chart comparing my EV to gas cars. I thought it would be 
fun
to repost the chart, with White Zombie's recent improved track performance:


(1) 'Mini Madness' Mini Cooper S................15.7 @ 97 mph, 2618 lbs., 245 hp

(2) 'Neuspeed' VW GTI............................15.3 @ 95 mph, 2707 lbs., 265 hp

(3) 'Vortech' Ford Focus SVT.....................14.9 @ 98 mph, 2887 lbs., 270 hp

(4) 'DC Sports' Acura RSX Type S...............14.5 @ 106 mph, 2839 lbs., 342 hp

(5) 'Jackson Racing' Honda Civic SI..............14.5 @ 104 mph, 2765 lbs., 325 hp

(6) 'HyTech' Acura RSX Type S..................14.4 @ 103 mph, 2754 lbs., 305 hp

(7) 'AME/Hasport' Honda Civic....................14.3 @ 99 mph, 2777 lbs., 349 hp

(8) 'Flyin' Miata' MX5 Miata.......................14.3 @ 101 mph, 2530 lbs., 260 hp

(9) 'Cobb Tuning' Subaru WRX....................13.7 @ 102 mph, 3108 lbs., 450 hp

(10) 'Comptech' Honda S2000......................13.3 @ 108 mph, 2833 lbs., 350 hp

(11) 'Plasma Boy Racing' Electric Datsun 1200...12.99 @ 101 mph, ~2530 lbs., ~ 152 hp


See Ya ...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland

'Plasma Boy Racing...we blow stuff up, so you don't have to!'




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I think this says it all.  Lawrence Rhodes



ELECTRIC CARS MEMBERSHIP
Please Make check or money order payable to

Arcive Networks Inc.
( Since 1986 - Our parent company )

743 Sara Drive, Ventura/Oxnard, California 93030

      BikiniGirl Network
      743 Sara Drive
      Ventura/Oxnard California 93030




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 8:13 PM
Subject: Anyone Know who is behind electriccars.com?


> Hi folks,
>
> Does anyone know who is behind the electriccars.com website?  They have
> copied an entire page from my maeaa.org website without my permission.
Had
> they asked, I might have okayed it as long as I was credited, but I wasn't
> asked so I am very ticked off.  Their site is not a free site to share
> info, but a pay site charging $9.95 per year to generate funds for
> somebody.  They don't have an email address shown to contact anyone.
>
> Does anyone know who these folks really are?
>
> Very Angry,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>

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Cell phone and AAA.  Very easy. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 10:29 PM
To: EVlist
Subject: ok, i give where do ev'rs keep there spare tire?


And I'm not talking about some of us with soggy midsections :-)  I see a 
lot of photo's of EV's where the battery boxes were cut throug the spare 
tire area. Just wondering what most people do about the spare tire.

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--- Begin Message --- I cut out the spare tire well in my 240Z thinking...with a 30-40 mile range, tops, I will rarely be more than 15 miles away from home. when I (eventually) get a hybrid trailer set up (pusher?) then I will carry a spare.

seth


On Monday, May 24, 2004, at 12:29 AM, Jeff Shanab wrote:

And I'm not talking about some of us with soggy midsections :-) I see a lot of photo's of EV's where the battery boxes were cut throug the spare tire area. Just wondering what most people do about the spare tire.





-- QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION '72 Datsun 240Z Conversion http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/

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> Just wondering what most people do about the spare tire.

In the old VWs, like my Karmann Ghia, the spare serves
several purposes and is located right in the nose of the car.
Being located there, tilted at an angle and supported all around
by the frame and body, it gives great energy absorbant crash 
protection. It also supplies a source of pressurized air to power 
the windshield washer system. (a cutoff valve prevents excessive
loss of pressure over time).

-----dream time------

In a dream last night, I showed up at an electric drag race with
my car and also some really quick electric powered rollerblades.
Bill Dube' took one look at the rollerblades and shook his head
in disdain. I was about to demonstrate to him that I had well
designed safety systems in place, when I suddenly yelled "Darn!,
I forgot my helmet and knee pads!" No biggie, as it was now
snowing like crazy and the track was all iced up. A French team had
a two place snowmobile EV that looked like a formula racer, they 
went blasting out of the pits, toward the staging lights.....

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I carried a spare tire for years. It was mounted on the rear 
swing tire rack for S-10 blazers. 

I took it off because I do not get flats that often (now
that I have said, watch I will get one).

I have 100 mile tow service from CSAA, and I carry two
large cans of spare tire.

If I was out on a 'out in the boonies' excursion, one can
of spare tire would get me to a phone. The second can is 
a spare for the spare.

I think I am covered.




=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====


        
                
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> Oy vey. Here we go again.....
> 
> ><< The nearest competitor to
> >  the KillaCycle is 3 seconds behind! Even with 300 lbs of SVR batteries on
> >  board, the bike is still more than a second and a half in front of its
> >  competition. The bike set a record on the first run down the track.
> 
> >BILL,It seems you have forgotten the time my coz.Sgt.Wes in Vegas waxed that
> >cycle of yours.He had only driven a dragster 4 runs in his entire life,had to
> >shut the car down at 1000 feet(a little scared)and was still a second
> >quicker.
> 
>          Actually, he lost the race before he started. You lost when he
> pulled beyond the staging lights and disqualified (red light) the car. Head
> starts are no fair. How easily you forget when the facts are inconvenient.
> You lost that race before you even started it.
> 
>          Dragsters are inherently quicker than bikes. Everyone (but you)
> knows this. I've explained this nicely to you several times. Unfortunately,
> you have yet to comprehend that a bike has:
> 
> 1) Less traction (only one rear tire)
> 
> 2) More aero drag ( more frontal area)
> 
>          The very fastest ICE bike is at 5.88 @ 243 MPH. By comparison, the
> fastest ICE dragster is at 4.477 @ 332 MPH. Obviously, if built with equal
> skill, a dragster will be much much quicker and faster than a bike.
> 
>          The question is, given the EXTREME advantage that a dragster has
> over a bike, why is your rail just barely quicker than my bike? It should
> be much much quicker if it were designed as well as my bike. If my bike can
> pull the low 9's, your rail should be deep into the 7's, if you've built it
> correctly. Why isn't it? Why is your dragster less than 3/4 of a second
> quicker than my bike? What's the problem?
> 
>          Worse yet, my bike has gone well over 150 mph on many occasions.
> Your slow-poke dragster hasn't even come anywhere close to that. Why is
> your dragster so slow? It should be much much faster than my bike. Everyone
> knows that.
> 
>          I think you need to spend less time attempting to antagonize me,
> and more time figuring out how to get you dragster going faster. This is
> because you will need to go faster, once I get new batteries in the bike.
> It is just a matter of time. :^) Tick, tick, tick.......
> 

You can't repeat that performance with current lead Acid..
        The power to wieght ratio GREATly favors a electric bike. 
        Since Both Evs have the same basic size and class of motor and battery
pack.
        A bike is the easy ticket to 150.
        Let's See also.....
        Dennis has less motor than you do by about 50 lbs. 
        And he uses about 1/3 the total watts you do. He likes to go fast not
melt motors and blow up batteries.
        
With Nitro, and 8500 hP... duh!!! Of course a Funny car will beat a
bike. 
        By the way a funny car now has the all time 1/4 mile speed 334.43 as of
yesterday.

What you have to ask yourself Bill, is why can a Ev dragster go high 9s
with 240 volts of hawkers RIGHT now. And he is at least 400 lbs heavier.
 

Loosing to a RED light oh come ON! The poor SOB had 4 runs under his
belt! 
I am sure Dennis won't let that happen again.

Will you quit this old race Bull and get some new time slips???
Junk those old SVRs and get some new Hawkers, and get back to racing?

That clock Bill, is ticking for both of you..... What If That Crazy SOB
from Phoenix gets the Killer Lithium before  you do????
Then you won't have a excuse for sitting on your Laurels.
RACE it Damit!!!!


-- 
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266

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I have a 9 inch ge motor modle ks902-ks it came out of
a bradley gt does anyone know anything about this
motor voltage/RPM hp/torque


tks
kEVs


        
                
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Found virus WORM_BAGLE.GEN-1 in file Smoke.zip
The file Smoke.zip is moved to /var/tmp/virDFYtHVaDa.

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>From June Popular Science, page 50.

AUTOMOTIVE INNOVATION
Batteries Included

Stanford students rev up the electric car with laptop power

When General Motors and Toyota
yanked the plug on their electric-
vehicle programs last year, citing
high costs and weak demand,
many proud owners of gas-
guzzlers no doubt nodded
smugly: Batteries are for flash-
lights, not family cars.
. But now a team of young
electric-car enthusiasts is attempt-
ing to change that widely held
perception by building an experi-
mental battery-powered car capa-
ble of highway cruising speeds
and cross-country trips-all on a
single charge. "We want to dispel
the myth that electric vehicles
can never travel more than a few
hundred miles," says engineer }.B.
Straubel of the Stanford Electric
Vehicle Project.
The secret to the project is
lithium ion, the same technology
supplying juice to most laptop
computers. Straubel says booming
laptop sales have made lithium-
ion batteries cheaper and more
efficient than lead-acid or nickel-
metal-hydride cells, the power
sources for GM's EV1, Toyota's
RAV4 EV and other now defunct
commercial models.
The Stanford car will stow
1o,ooo lithium-ion batteries
under the hood. A standard lap-
top typically has eight. Wired
together, the lithium-ion cells-
each roughly the size of an AA
battery-will store enough energy
to power an average home for
four days, says Straubel. More
important, the Stanford team cal-
culates the pack could propel its
car at an average 45 mph for
2,000 miles, smashing all previ-
ous EV records. The team hopes
to have the car ready for road
tests by July.-MICHAEL STROH

Also an illustration with annotations:
Stainless tube chassis weighs less than 100 pounds.
8' long axle to axle.
Teardrop shaped carbon fiber shell.
3 wheels
1,100 battery pack
80 kWh
150 microprocessor BMS

Mark T.


----- Original Message -----
From: "benjinsl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 3:14 PM
Subject: 1000+ mile EV project


Hi All,  Subscribed back on the list for this post...
I recently, within the past couple weeks, saw an article discussing a
university group intending to build an EV powered by something like 1000lb
of lithium ion batteries to be able to go over 1000 miles on one charge.  I
can't for the life of me remember where i saw it, and web searches are
coming up with nothing, or at least not the article for which i'm looking.
I'm hoping someone here has a link to the story.

Ben

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Actually,
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
> The circuit breaker sold by various suppliers should be fine for 
your 
> voltage and current: Heinemann GJ1-B3-DU0250-01
> http://www.eatonelectrical.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=C-
> 
H/Common/AssetTemplateLink&c=Apubarticles&cid=1016116310836&Sec=produc
> ts
> Voltage rating looks marginal but has been used on many higher 
> voltage vehicles successfully (Gary Flo at 216V for example).

This breaker is specced under x conditions to carry 1000A for 4-20 
seconds before opening. That might not be enough for your car with 
Z1k.

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--- Begin Message ---
Hi - If a circuit breaker is rated for less than the supply's
voltage, can they be put in series and operate correctly
(specifically, break their rated amp load)?

Doesn't sound right, but might offer some useful options...


=====
George Tylinski (Yahoo ID acid_lead)
73 MG Midget / Portland, OR


        
                
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