Re: [IAEP] Announcing Fedora Sugar Spin!
Thanks for the detailed analysis, Morgan. Much appreciated. --g On Wed, 12 Nov 2008, Morgan Collett wrote: On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 18:02, Greg Dekoenigsberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Wed, 12 Nov 2008, Bill Kerr wrote: Meaning what, exactly? Can you be more specific? Well, it's meant to be possible for collaboration to work out of the box. This did not happen with Wolfgang's Live CD converted to USB keys. Someone reported earlier on this list that collaboration did work from USB keys on a Ubuntu network from morgan collett: "Link local presence should "just work", but I've never used the LiveCD images." At any rate Morgan asked us for some files and after they were sent reported back: from morgan collett: "Thanks for the logs. presenceservice.log shows that salut (LinkLocalPlugin) starts up successfully but doesn't detect anyone on the local network. gabble (ServerPlugin) repeatedly attempts to connect to a jabber server but fails - nevertheless salut is running." After this one of my students built a jabber server and we could do collaboration through that I was hoping that with the new Fedora USB key we could do collaboration out of the box, meaning without using the jabber server All I tested with the new Fedora USB key was trying to connect through Chat but that didn't work Let me know if you want more information or diagnostic files again - I can look up the details or ask joel for help if needed - just tell me exactly the information you need a bit more detail of the history here: http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/connectivity Ah, right. So what we have is a complex policy issue, but it boils down to this: With whom should a new Sugar user be "collaborating" by default? Many options here. Machines on the local mesh subnet? Should there be a default jabberd server? Should there be discoverability of all jabberd servers in the world? A quick explanation about the built-in policy of sugar-presence-service: On startup, telepathy-salut is started for link local presence and collaboration (avahi etc). If network manager reports a valid IP address, then telepathy-gabble is started to try and connect to the configured jabber server. Until such time as gabble connects successfully, salut continues to be the presence mechanism. When gabble connects, salut is stopped and presence is done via the jabber server. That policy is in the code base and is not configurable without modifying code. OLPC XO releases ship with no jabber server configured (and in the past, with a non-existant jabber server like ship2.jabber.laptop.org) since our ejabberd setup falls over with more than about 150 people on the server. (That is a more complex discussion which we have had several times - ask me if you want the explanation. A 9.1.0 feature should improve that.) Discoverability of jabber servers is unfortunately a good way to kill them all, with the above limitation. Servers listed on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Community_Jabber_Servers are regularly down for long periods because of this. With Sugar 0.82 it is easy to set a jabber server in the control panel, but it should only be done by informed decision: Jabber servers should only be run for specific communities, like an XO community in a specific city, or a for a specific school, etc. We do not have an access control mechanism to restrict that, but when people go "Oh cool, let me try that one" at random then it denies service to the intended users of the server. Debian Lenny and Ubuntu Intrepid ship the required patches in their ejabberd packages, and there are rpms available as part of the XS project, for those who want to set up community servers. My take: 1. Whatever default policy we choose will be wrong for a significant subset of users. The way OLPC builds ship, two XOs on the same mesh channel or the same AP will see each other, out of the box. There's no server than can handle being the default, so it's simple: ship with no server configured. That relies on link local presence/collaboration actually working: if it isn't, you something to fix, since it works fine on OLPC 8.2.0 and other distros. 2. Collaboration must be one of the "killer apps", and even if it doesn't work out of the box *trivially*, it should be possible for users to iterate through the possible collaboration network options with miminal pain. 3. Can we discuss this at next week's Sugar conference? To me, answering these questions is worth a day or more of face time. Unfortunately I won't be there in person but I'll try to participate remotely if time zones permit. Regards Morgan ___ Fedora-education-list mailing list [email protected] http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-education-list
Re: [IAEP] Announcing Fedora Sugar Spin!
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008, Bill Kerr wrote: Meaning what, exactly? Can you be more specific? Well, it's meant to be possible for collaboration to work out of the box. This did not happen with Wolfgang's Live CD converted to USB keys. Someone reported earlier on this list that collaboration did work from USB keys on a Ubuntu network from morgan collett: "Link local presence should "just work", but I've never used the LiveCD images." At any rate Morgan asked us for some files and after they were sent reported back: from morgan collett: "Thanks for the logs. presenceservice.log shows that salut (LinkLocalPlugin) starts up successfully but doesn't detect anyone on the local network. gabble (ServerPlugin) repeatedly attempts to connect to a jabber server but fails - nevertheless salut is running." After this one of my students built a jabber server and we could do collaboration through that I was hoping that with the new Fedora USB key we could do collaboration out of the box, meaning without using the jabber server All I tested with the new Fedora USB key was trying to connect through Chat but that didn't work Let me know if you want more information or diagnostic files again - I can look up the details or ask joel for help if needed - just tell me exactly the information you need a bit more detail of the history here: http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/connectivity Ah, right. So what we have is a complex policy issue, but it boils down to this: With whom should a new Sugar user be "collaborating" by default? Many options here. Machines on the local mesh subnet? Should there be a default jabberd server? Should there be discoverability of all jabberd servers in the world? My take: 1. Whatever default policy we choose will be wrong for a significant subset of users. 2. Collaboration must be one of the "killer apps", and even if it doesn't work out of the box *trivially*, it should be possible for users to iterate through the possible collaboration network options with miminal pain. 3. Can we discuss this at next week's Sugar conference? To me, answering these questions is worth a day or more of face time. --g___ Fedora-education-list mailing list [email protected] http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-education-list
Re: [IAEP] Announcing Fedora Sugar Spin!
On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Bill Kerr wrote: Problems: * not enough activities This will become better over time. Since we need to package activities for Fedora and they need to be reviewed, there can be a bit of a lag. The activities should be coming online continually. * collaboration did not work out of the box when tested on my network at school :-( Meaning what, exactly? Can you be more specific? * shutdown does not work from drop down xo icon Yeah, I noticed that in my previous attempts, too. --g ___ Fedora-education-list mailing list [email protected] http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-education-list
Re: Announcing Fedora Sugar Spin!
Sebastian Dziallas wrote: Hi everybody, I'm proud to be announce the availability of our Fedora Sugar Spin, which incorporates the Sugar Desktop Environment on a Fedora Live CD. So, what is this in specific? With this spin, you'll be able to run Sugar, which is developed by Sugarlabs and the desktop environment used on the OLPC, directly from a Live CD! You'll find several activities on the image including most notably... * sugar-browse - a web browsing activity based on xulrunner * sugar-write - a word processor based on abiword ...among with several other applications introducing e.g. chat support. We, the OLPC SIG, will be importing further activities into Fedora, which might be installed using 'yum install sugar-*' at a later time. Where can you get it? Easily, here: http://sdz.fedorapeople.org/olpc/sugar-spin.iso Okay, this link is now highly obsolete! Please don't use it or link to it anymore. The image there has been removed, since it has a new home. You'll find it at it's new location, which is here: http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/olpc/0.82/i686/sugar-spin.iso Here's the SHA1 checksum, just if you're interested: f032ab45aa116c2728dcd2d676e29a5ee114fd1d sugar-spin.iso And what if you wanted to put it quickly onto your USB Key? Even easier! You'll just need to grab Luke Macken's liveusb-creator, which already includes support for the Sugar Spin. Here's the link: https://fedorahosted.org/releases/l/i/liveusb-creator/liveusb-creator-3.0.zip The liveusb-creator link to the Sugar Spin is still the old one, so you'll need to download the image manually from the new location above, until this gets fixed. We're working on it! Thank you everybody, who made this possible! --Sebastian Again, thanks! --Sebastian ___ Fedora-education-list mailing list [email protected] http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-education-list
Re: [IAEP] Announcing Fedora Sugar Spin!
Very nice! thanks david On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Sebastian Dziallas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Hi everybody, > > I'm proud to be announce the availability of our Fedora Sugar Spin, > which incorporates the Sugar Desktop Environment on a Fedora Live CD. > > So, what is this in specific? With this spin, you'll be able to run > Sugar, which is developed by Sugarlabs and the desktop environment used > on the OLPC, directly from a Live CD! You'll find several activities on > the image including most notably... > > * sugar-browse - a web browsing activity based on xulrunner > * sugar-write - a word processor based on abiword > > ...among with several other applications introducing e.g. chat support. > > We, the OLPC SIG, will be importing further activities into Fedora, > which might be installed using 'yum install sugar-*' at a later time. > > Where can you get it? Easily, here: > >http://sdz.fedorapeople.org/olpc/sugar-spin.iso > > Here's the SHA1 checksum, just if you're interested: > >f032ab45aa116c2728dcd2d676e29a5ee114fd1d sugar-spin.iso > > And what if you wanted to put it quickly onto your USB Key? Even easier! > You'll just need to grab Luke Macken's liveusb-creator, which already > includes support for the Sugar Spin. Here's the link: > > > https://fedorahosted.org/releases/l/i/liveusb-creator/liveusb-creator-3.0.zip > > Thank you everybody, who made this possible! > > --Sebastian > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___ Fedora-education-list mailing list [email protected] http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-education-list
Re: Announcing Fedora Sugar Spin!
On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 18:31 -0400, Chris Ball wrote: >> On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 17:53 -0400, Chris Ball wrote: >>> A minor complaint: Sugar came up in 800x600, which doesn't look >>> very good. I wonder if we can try for 1280x1024 by default >>> instead. (It might just be the graphics card qemu is emulating, >>> but even if that's the case we should consider fixing it for >>> qemu..) > >> It's the graphics card qemu emulates (Cirrus). The answer to >> fixing it is to get something more reasonable emulated within qemu >> than an ancient Cirrus Logic chip ;-) > > I just booted the Ubuntu 8.10 live image on the same (Rawhide) kvm > install and it's using 1024x768 by default, which is much more pleasant: > >(--) CIRRUS(0): Virtual size is 1024x768 (pitch 1024) >(**) CIRRUS(0): *Default mode "1024x768": 78.8 MHz, 60.0 kHz, 75.0 Hz >(II) CIRRUS(0): Modeline "1024x768"x75.0 78.75 1024 1040 1136 1312 768 > 769 772 800 +hsync +vsync (60.0 kHz) > > Perhaps there's a patch we can pull? The "patch" is that they use an xorg.conf and hard-code 1024x768 as their default resolution. We don't use an xorg.conf at all[1] in Fedora and instead rely on the X server to be able to probe things. Cirrus hardware doesn't support any form of reasonable DDC and thus it goes with its fallback which is 800x600. Given that most of the hardware which ends up using the fallback paths is old and that hardware is the hardware most likely to have problems with > 800x600, it's not really safe to change that. Jeremy [1] With the exception of on the XO, where we still have to create one because the driver is lame ;) ___ Fedora-education-list mailing list [email protected] http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-education-list
Re: Announcing Fedora Sugar Spin!
On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 17:53 -0400, Chris Ball wrote: > A minor complaint: Sugar came up in 800x600, which doesn't look very > good. I wonder if we can try for 1280x1024 by default instead. (It > might just be the graphics card qemu is emulating, but even if that's > the case we should consider fixing it for qemu..) It's the graphics card qemu emulates (Cirrus). The answer to fixing it is to get something more reasonable emulated within qemu than an ancient Cirrus Logic chip ;-) Jeremy ___ Fedora-education-list mailing list [email protected] http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-education-list
Re: Announcing Fedora Sugar Spin!
Thanks, Sebastian. Brilliant work here. --g On Thu, 30 Oct 2008, Sebastian Dziallas wrote: Hi everybody, I'm proud to be announce the availability of our Fedora Sugar Spin, which incorporates the Sugar Desktop Environment on a Fedora Live CD. So, what is this in specific? With this spin, you'll be able to run Sugar, which is developed by Sugarlabs and the desktop environment used on the OLPC, directly from a Live CD! You'll find several activities on the image including most notably... * sugar-browse - a web browsing activity based on xulrunner * sugar-write - a word processor based on abiword ...among with several other applications introducing e.g. chat support. We, the OLPC SIG, will be importing further activities into Fedora, which might be installed using 'yum install sugar-*' at a later time. Where can you get it? Easily, here: http://sdz.fedorapeople.org/olpc/sugar-spin.iso Here's the SHA1 checksum, just if you're interested: f032ab45aa116c2728dcd2d676e29a5ee114fd1d sugar-spin.iso And what if you wanted to put it quickly onto your USB Key? Even easier! You'll just need to grab Luke Macken's liveusb-creator, which already includes support for the Sugar Spin. Here's the link: https://fedorahosted.org/releases/l/i/liveusb-creator/liveusb-creator-3.0.zip Thank you everybody, who made this possible! --Sebastian ___ Fedora-olpc-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-olpc-list ___ Fedora-education-list mailing list [email protected] http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-education-list
Announcing Fedora Sugar Spin!
Hi everybody, I'm proud to be announce the availability of our Fedora Sugar Spin, which incorporates the Sugar Desktop Environment on a Fedora Live CD. So, what is this in specific? With this spin, you'll be able to run Sugar, which is developed by Sugarlabs and the desktop environment used on the OLPC, directly from a Live CD! You'll find several activities on the image including most notably... * sugar-browse - a web browsing activity based on xulrunner * sugar-write - a word processor based on abiword ...among with several other applications introducing e.g. chat support. We, the OLPC SIG, will be importing further activities into Fedora, which might be installed using 'yum install sugar-*' at a later time. Where can you get it? Easily, here: http://sdz.fedorapeople.org/olpc/sugar-spin.iso Here's the SHA1 checksum, just if you're interested: f032ab45aa116c2728dcd2d676e29a5ee114fd1d sugar-spin.iso And what if you wanted to put it quickly onto your USB Key? Even easier! You'll just need to grab Luke Macken's liveusb-creator, which already includes support for the Sugar Spin. Here's the link: https://fedorahosted.org/releases/l/i/liveusb-creator/liveusb-creator-3.0.zip Thank you everybody, who made this possible! --Sebastian ___ Fedora-education-list mailing list [email protected] http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-education-list
