Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Randy – I am so happy to hear of your vet’s willingness to have an open mind and work with this treatment plan. It would be fabulous to begin keeping track of the contact information of veterinary offices who are willing to work with pet owners, so that others seeking this care would not have roadblocks when time is of the essence. Go Curly!! One thing that I will mention, and you probably already are aware of this, but when my Tigger babe was dealing with FeLV, a big thing that aggrevated his condition was stress, which at that time came in the form of a stray cat that I had taken in, that was competing for my attention and would actually bite Tigger when I gave him attention. If you can avoid stressful situations for Curly, such as fearful situations, I’m thinking that would help. Best of luck!! Ardy From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy Henke Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 8:52 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement Curly's latest labs from yesterday show another hematocrit leap from 15% to 23% in 2 1/2 weeks. She has also gained 6/10 of a pound! (7.1 up from 6.5). Behaviorally she is almost back to her old self. She is no longer hiding, seeks out attention and is eating well. Our vet told us he is astounded. But more importantly, he said that he is changing his treatment for FELV cats based on Curly's remarkable improvement and will be using Prednisone, Winstrol and Doxycyline in the future. A small win for our side against this disease. Her blood chemistry test did show that her ALT levels have risen to 174 which is an indicator that liver cells are being destroyed. Our vet said it is definitely a result of the anabolic steroid but he isn't overly concerned yet. H wants us to continue treatment for another month. Once Curly's hematocrit is up to around 30 he wants to start cycling the Winstrol, one week on and one week off, to give her liver a chance to regenerate. Without this forum and the advice I received here along with a very understanding and open-minded vet, I'm quite sure Curly wouldn't be around anymore. I have my fingers crossed that we can keep things balanced and headed in the right direction but so far, so good! On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com <mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com> > wrote: Hopefully, we start winning the vets over when they see the results, and they start to tell each other about some success for FeLV cats with this combination. By the way, I have also effectively used this combination for a cat who, I believe had FIV, and I currently am using just the Doxy/Winstrol combination on 2 of 3 kittens we picked up from the side of the road in August and they displayed the symptoms of Lyme Disease (alternating lameness and other signs). In the last case, I am pretty sure that the majority of the effect on the Lyme organism (Borrelia bergdorferi) is from the Doxycycline, but the good effect on the lameness (which had been in place for several months before I thought to try the medications) is I believe as a result of the use of the Winstrol. When the vets tell me that (a) they don’t know what the diagnosis is and other options seem ineffective or (b) they tell me there is no hope, I will usually try the Winstrol and almost always get a decent result. Amani From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> ] On Behalf Of Randy Henke Sent: January-22-17 11:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement Amani, you asked what our vet thought about Curly's improvement. He was very pleased but I think he was also a little surprised. He is an incredible vet and always goes the extra mile to listen and explain things. He was also very open to letting us try the Prednisolone, Doxy and Winstrol, even though he'd never treated a FELV cat in that way. I think he thought it would help put my mind at ease that we'd tried everything we could and he's right. It would have done that even if the treatment hadn't worked. He was very concerned about the Prednisolone opening her up to secondary infections but once he saw the numbers start to improve he was convinced we were doing the right thing and told us to keep it up. I am going to talk to him about continuing the Doxy. Robert, that's a great idea about crushing the Doxy, mixing it in broth and administering with a syringe. We'd tried mixing it in her food once and that did not go well. Obviously it's a very nasty tasting medicine. Ardy and Katherine, thanks for your support. I really wish that more vets were open to trying novel treatments that hold so much potential instead of assuming that they know everything. Randy On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:1
Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Randy I am so happy for you and for Curly, and thrilled that your vet has recognized the usefulness of “Zander’s Protocol” in treating FeLV cats. Though I lost my precious little boy just a little over two years ago, his stoic tolerance of me monitoring him so closely and studying his blood work results, allowed me to figure out some of this stuff. I want to recognize his bravery and refusal to give up, when really, things were very grim. When his haematocrit dropped to FIVE, after the FeLV crash, he was lying motionless under the oxygen tent and everyone was telling me it was time to let him go. It was only because, when I called his name that he emphatically wagged his tail, and kept doing it every time I said his name, that reinforced for me that he was in there and listening, and I wasn’t about to give up on him. In looking at Curly’s very rapid heamatocrit recovery, versus the much more prolonged one with Zander and others who have shared their experiences in this forum, I am going to hypothesize again that perhaps the sooner that an FeLV cat gets on Zander’s Protocol, the faster the reversal happens, if it is going to happen. With Zander, it was at least three months before I put him on the Winstrol – he was already on the Doxy and Prednisone from before. In the three months (or more) between his FeLV crash and when I decided to try the Winstrol, I had tried other things like interferon and the LTCI injections, and nothing had worked at all. Perhaps the longer the virus has to attack the bone marrow, the more depleted the bone marrow gets and the harder it is for the Winstrol to have a positive effect on the it. With respect to taking Curley off the meds in a month, again, I did this very much by trial and error with Zander. I would try to wean him off, and would check his blood work with every attempt to reduce the medication. Any worsened lab results (red cells, neutrophils, lymphocytes, platelets, reticulocytes, haematocrit) and I would up the medication again. I found that there was an immediate slippage of his results, every time I tried to wean him off (which again, supported the belief that the improved results were related to the medication given, since attempts to reduce the medication had an immediate negative impact on the results – part of the scientific principle). This lasted 10 months or so. I suggest the same “play it by ear” approach for Curly. Try weaning Curly off, with close bloodwork monitoring. If her results hold, you’re good to go. Otherwise, resume the protocol. Zander had much worse liver enzyme results than you’re reporting. I don’t have the results off-hand, but my recollection is that the results for all the liver enzymes (AST, ALT, LD, TBili, DBili) were all significantly increased. I am guessing but I seem to recall that ALT would have been in the 500-800 range. It all disappeared when the Winstrol was discontinued after 10 months, and I never had problems with his liver in all the times I tested him after his recovery. Your vet is correct to just leave things well enough alone for now. I am delighted at your vet’s response. This is what I would hope and expect from all vets. Try out the protocol, run before and after blood work, and then decide if it works or not. Simple. Keep politics and taboos out of it. Ignore the red herring of the liver enzymes because what’s the point in safe-guarding the liver if the cat isn’t going to survive the viral attack? If the protocol doesn’t work, then stop. Ideally, there should be no delay in getting started with Zander’s protocol, because (a) why let the cat get more and more debilitated before you start the treatment – the treatment may not be sufficient to pull the cat back out of the abyss if you wait too long and (b) if it isn’t going to work, you have to move on to other options, again, as quickly as possible. Others have not had success with Zander’s protocol, and so it may be that different strains of the virus are responsible for the fact that the protocol works very effectively, in a relatively short period of time, with some cats, but not others. Amani From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy Henke Sent: January-26-17 9:52 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement Curly's latest labs from yesterday show another hematocrit leap from 15% to 23% in 2 1/2 weeks. She has also gained 6/10 of a pound! (7.1 up from 6.5). Behaviorally she is almost back to her old self. She is no longer hiding, seeks out attention and is eating well. Our vet told us he is astounded. But more importantly, he said that he is changing his treatment for FELV cats based on Curly's remarkable improvement and will be using Prednisone, Winstrol and Doxycyline in the future. A small win for our side against this disease. Her blood chemistry test did show that h
Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Great results for Curly and the vet! Randy Henke <ra...@magicedge.com> wrote: > Curly's latest labs from yesterday show another hematocrit leap from 15% to > 23% in 2 1/2 weeks. She has also gained 6/10 of a pound! (7.1 up from 6.5). > Behaviorally she is almost back to her old self. She is no longer hiding, > seeks out attention and is eating well. Our vet told us he is astounded. > But more importantly, he said that he is changing his treatment for FELV > cats based on Curly's remarkable improvement and will be using Prednisone, > Winstrol and Doxycyline in the future. A small win for our side against > this disease. > > Her blood chemistry test did show that her ALT levels have risen to 174 > which is an indicator that liver cells are being destroyed. Our vet said it > is definitely a result of the anabolic steroid but he isn't overly > concerned yet. H wants us to continue treatment for another month. Once > Curly's hematocrit is up to around 30 he wants to start cycling the > Winstrol, one week on and one week off, to give her liver a chance to > regenerate. > > Without this forum and the advice I received here along with a very > understanding and open-minded vet, I'm quite sure Curly wouldn't be around > anymore. I have my fingers crossed that we can keep things balanced and > headed in the right direction but so far, so good! > > On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> > wrote: > > > Hopefully, we start winning the vets over when they see the results, and > > they start to tell each other about some success for FeLV cats with this > > combination. By the way, I have also effectively used this combination for > > a cat who, I believe had FIV, and I currently am using just the > > Doxy/Winstrol combination on 2 of 3 kittens we picked up from the side of > > the road in August and they displayed the symptoms of Lyme Disease > > (alternating lameness and other signs). In the last case, I am pretty sure > > that the majority of the effect on the Lyme organism *(Borrelia > > bergdorferi) *is from the Doxycycline, but the good effect on the > > lameness (which had been in place for several months before I thought to > > try the medications) is I believe as a result of the use of the Winstrol. > > > > > > > > When the vets tell me that (a) they don’t know what the diagnosis is and > > other options seem ineffective or (b) they tell me there is no hope, I will > > usually try the Winstrol and almost always get a decent result. > > > > > > > > Amani > > > > > > > > *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf > > Of *Randy Henke > > *Sent:* January-22-17 11:54 AM > > *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > > *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement > > > > > > > > Amani, you asked what our vet thought about Curly's improvement. He was > > very pleased but I think he was also a little surprised. He is an > > incredible vet and always goes the extra mile to listen and explain things. > > He was also very open to letting us try the Prednisolone, Doxy and > > Winstrol, even though he'd never treated a FELV cat in that way. I think he > > thought it would help put my mind at ease that we'd tried everything we > > could and he's right. It would have done that even if the treatment hadn't > > worked. He was very concerned about the Prednisolone opening her up to > > secondary infections but once he saw the numbers start to improve he was > > convinced we were doing the right thing and told us to keep it up. I am > > going to talk to him about continuing the Doxy. > > > > Robert, that's a great idea about crushing the Doxy, mixing it in broth > > and administering with a syringe. We'd tried mixing it in her food once and > > that did not go well. Obviously it's a very nasty tasting medicine. > > > > Ardy and Katherine, thanks for your support. I really wish that more vets > > were open to trying novel treatments that hold so much potential instead of > > assuming that they know everything. > > > > Randy > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> > > wrote: > > > > Oh Randy, I am so THRILLED to hear of your positive response to the > > medications, and that your vet was so helpful. (What does your vet think of > > the response?) You may think that 15% haematocrit is still very sick, and > > it is still well outside the normal range, but you’ve basically had a 60% > > increase in haematocrit in 3 weeks. Th
Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Curly's latest labs from yesterday show another hematocrit leap from 15% to 23% in 2 1/2 weeks. She has also gained 6/10 of a pound! (7.1 up from 6.5). Behaviorally she is almost back to her old self. She is no longer hiding, seeks out attention and is eating well. Our vet told us he is astounded. But more importantly, he said that he is changing his treatment for FELV cats based on Curly's remarkable improvement and will be using Prednisone, Winstrol and Doxycyline in the future. A small win for our side against this disease. Her blood chemistry test did show that her ALT levels have risen to 174 which is an indicator that liver cells are being destroyed. Our vet said it is definitely a result of the anabolic steroid but he isn't overly concerned yet. H wants us to continue treatment for another month. Once Curly's hematocrit is up to around 30 he wants to start cycling the Winstrol, one week on and one week off, to give her liver a chance to regenerate. Without this forum and the advice I received here along with a very understanding and open-minded vet, I'm quite sure Curly wouldn't be around anymore. I have my fingers crossed that we can keep things balanced and headed in the right direction but so far, so good! On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> wrote: > Hopefully, we start winning the vets over when they see the results, and > they start to tell each other about some success for FeLV cats with this > combination. By the way, I have also effectively used this combination for > a cat who, I believe had FIV, and I currently am using just the > Doxy/Winstrol combination on 2 of 3 kittens we picked up from the side of > the road in August and they displayed the symptoms of Lyme Disease > (alternating lameness and other signs). In the last case, I am pretty sure > that the majority of the effect on the Lyme organism *(Borrelia > bergdorferi) *is from the Doxycycline, but the good effect on the > lameness (which had been in place for several months before I thought to > try the medications) is I believe as a result of the use of the Winstrol. > > > > When the vets tell me that (a) they don’t know what the diagnosis is and > other options seem ineffective or (b) they tell me there is no hope, I will > usually try the Winstrol and almost always get a decent result. > > > > Amani > > > > *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf > Of *Randy Henke > *Sent:* January-22-17 11:54 AM > *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement > > > > Amani, you asked what our vet thought about Curly's improvement. He was > very pleased but I think he was also a little surprised. He is an > incredible vet and always goes the extra mile to listen and explain things. > He was also very open to letting us try the Prednisolone, Doxy and > Winstrol, even though he'd never treated a FELV cat in that way. I think he > thought it would help put my mind at ease that we'd tried everything we > could and he's right. It would have done that even if the treatment hadn't > worked. He was very concerned about the Prednisolone opening her up to > secondary infections but once he saw the numbers start to improve he was > convinced we were doing the right thing and told us to keep it up. I am > going to talk to him about continuing the Doxy. > > Robert, that's a great idea about crushing the Doxy, mixing it in broth > and administering with a syringe. We'd tried mixing it in her food once and > that did not go well. Obviously it's a very nasty tasting medicine. > > Ardy and Katherine, thanks for your support. I really wish that more vets > were open to trying novel treatments that hold so much potential instead of > assuming that they know everything. > > Randy > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> > wrote: > > Oh Randy, I am so THRILLED to hear of your positive response to the > medications, and that your vet was so helpful. (What does your vet think of > the response?) You may think that 15% haematocrit is still very sick, and > it is still well outside the normal range, but you’ve basically had a 60% > increase in haematocrit in 3 weeks. That is quite amazing and wonderful. It > is as good a result as you would have had with 2 units of blood being given > as a transfusion, only it is much better than a transfusion because Curly > is producing her own cells, rather than temporarily filling up with someone > else’s blood. > > > > With respect to the Doxy, I am not sure. If it were me, I would probably > want to continue if you can. You’ve had a very good result. Why mess with > the formula? I can’t say definitively, one way or the other, since
Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Hopefully, we start winning the vets over when they see the results, and they start to tell each other about some success for FeLV cats with this combination. By the way, I have also effectively used this combination for a cat who, I believe had FIV, and I currently am using just the Doxy/Winstrol combination on 2 of 3 kittens we picked up from the side of the road in August and they displayed the symptoms of Lyme Disease (alternating lameness and other signs). In the last case, I am pretty sure that the majority of the effect on the Lyme organism (Borrelia bergdorferi) is from the Doxycycline, but the good effect on the lameness (which had been in place for several months before I thought to try the medications) is I believe as a result of the use of the Winstrol. When the vets tell me that (a) they don’t know what the diagnosis is and other options seem ineffective or (b) they tell me there is no hope, I will usually try the Winstrol and almost always get a decent result. Amani From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy Henke Sent: January-22-17 11:54 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement Amani, you asked what our vet thought about Curly's improvement. He was very pleased but I think he was also a little surprised. He is an incredible vet and always goes the extra mile to listen and explain things. He was also very open to letting us try the Prednisolone, Doxy and Winstrol, even though he'd never treated a FELV cat in that way. I think he thought it would help put my mind at ease that we'd tried everything we could and he's right. It would have done that even if the treatment hadn't worked. He was very concerned about the Prednisolone opening her up to secondary infections but once he saw the numbers start to improve he was convinced we were doing the right thing and told us to keep it up. I am going to talk to him about continuing the Doxy. Robert, that's a great idea about crushing the Doxy, mixing it in broth and administering with a syringe. We'd tried mixing it in her food once and that did not go well. Obviously it's a very nasty tasting medicine. Ardy and Katherine, thanks for your support. I really wish that more vets were open to trying novel treatments that hold so much potential instead of assuming that they know everything. Randy On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> wrote: Oh Randy, I am so THRILLED to hear of your positive response to the medications, and that your vet was so helpful. (What does your vet think of the response?) You may think that 15% haematocrit is still very sick, and it is still well outside the normal range, but you’ve basically had a 60% increase in haematocrit in 3 weeks. That is quite amazing and wonderful. It is as good a result as you would have had with 2 units of blood being given as a transfusion, only it is much better than a transfusion because Curly is producing her own cells, rather than temporarily filling up with someone else’s blood. With respect to the Doxy, I am not sure. If it were me, I would probably want to continue if you can. You’ve had a very good result. Why mess with the formula? I can’t say definitively, one way or the other, since I very much figured things out by running weekly blood work and if I saw a dip or a reversal in the numbers, I would adjust the medication accordingly. I don’t know if I am right about my Doxy theory (and it is just pure conjecture on my part, based on my non-vet research) but I really think that the Doxy is part of the effective package. I feel that the Doxy holds the virus in check – perhaps slowing down its reproduction by inhibiting RNA synthesis – enough to allow the body to make some progress with the Winstrol. I don’t think that the Winstrol on its own is enough. With the Doxy, I used to scrape the quarter tablet into a slab of butter to coat it with butter, to help it slide down better, since the quarter table it very dry and scratchy. I also posted recently that the Doxy we get from vets (and even from our doctors) is the same as what you can get to treat fish or birds, in a pet store, and that is sold in powdered packages of 100 mg (same as 1 tablet). A prescription isn’t needed for it, and because it is powdered, it can be mixed into food or liquid. Great news, too, with your success in getting her to eat more and put on weight. I love to hear good news on this front. Let’s hope she continues in the right direction. Amani From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>] On Behalf Of Randy Henke Sent: January-19-17 9:53 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> Subject: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement It has been a little over a month ago that I asked for advice on this forum for
Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Keep that vet! Randy Henke <ra...@magicedge.com> wrote: > Amani, you asked what our vet thought about Curly's improvement. He was > very pleased but I think he was also a little surprised. He is an > incredible vet and always goes the extra mile to listen and explain things. > He was also very open to letting us try the Prednisolone, Doxy and > Winstrol, even though he'd never treated a FELV cat in that way. I think he > thought it would help put my mind at ease that we'd tried everything we > could and he's right. It would have done that even if the treatment hadn't > worked. He was very concerned about the Prednisolone opening her up to > secondary infections but once he saw the numbers start to improve he was > convinced we were doing the right thing and told us to keep it up. I am > going to talk to him about continuing the Doxy. > > Robert, that's a great idea about crushing the Doxy, mixing it in broth and > administering with a syringe. We'd tried mixing it in her food once and > that did not go well. Obviously it's a very nasty tasting medicine. > > Ardy and Katherine, thanks for your support. I really wish that more vets > were open to trying novel treatments that hold so much potential instead of > assuming that they know everything. > > Randy > > > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> > wrote: > > > Oh Randy, I am so THRILLED to hear of your positive response to the > > medications, and that your vet was so helpful. (What does your vet think of > > the response?) You may think that 15% haematocrit is still very sick, and > > it is still well outside the normal range, but you’ve basically had a 60% > > increase in haematocrit in 3 weeks. That is quite amazing and wonderful. It > > is as good a result as you would have had with 2 units of blood being given > > as a transfusion, only it is much better than a transfusion because Curly > > is producing her own cells, rather than temporarily filling up with someone > > else’s blood. > > > > > > > > With respect to the Doxy, I am not sure. If it were me, I would probably > > want to continue if you can. You’ve had a very good result. Why mess with > > the formula? I can’t say definitively, one way or the other, since I very > > much figured things out by running weekly blood work and if I saw a dip or > > a reversal in the numbers, I would adjust the medication accordingly. I > > don’t know if I am right about my Doxy theory (and it is just pure > > conjecture on my part, based on my non-vet research) but I really think > > that the Doxy is part of the effective package. I feel that the Doxy holds > > the virus in check – perhaps slowing down its reproduction by inhibiting > > RNA synthesis – enough to allow the body to make some progress with the > > Winstrol. I don’t think that the Winstrol on its own is enough. > > > > > > > > With the Doxy, I used to scrape the quarter tablet into a slab of butter > > to coat it with butter, to help it slide down better, since the quarter > > table it very dry and scratchy. I also posted recently that the Doxy we get > > from vets (and even from our doctors) is the same as what you can get to > > treat fish or birds, in a pet store, and that is sold in powdered packages > > of 100 mg (same as 1 tablet). A prescription isn’t needed for it, and > > because it is powdered, it can be mixed into food or liquid. > > > > > > > > Great news, too, with your success in getting her to eat more and put on > > weight. > > > > > > > > I love to hear good news on this front. Let’s hope she continues in the > > right direction. > > > > > > > > Amani > > > > > > > > *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf > > Of *Randy Henke > > *Sent:* January-19-17 9:53 PM > > *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > > *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement > > > > > > > > It has been a little over a month ago that I asked for advice on this > > forum for our little girl, Curly. > > > > At that point, I had little hope. She was so lethargic and her hematocrit > > had dipped to a critical 9%. I took everyone's advice, especially Amani's, > > and asked our vet for Predisolone, Winstrol and Doxycycline. > > > > According to her latest CBC two weeks ago, she is still a very sick kitty > > but her hematocrit rebounded to 15% which I know is still very low. All > > other numbers are improving slowly as well. That was after less than three > > weeks of treatment. &
Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Amani, you asked what our vet thought about Curly's improvement. He was very pleased but I think he was also a little surprised. He is an incredible vet and always goes the extra mile to listen and explain things. He was also very open to letting us try the Prednisolone, Doxy and Winstrol, even though he'd never treated a FELV cat in that way. I think he thought it would help put my mind at ease that we'd tried everything we could and he's right. It would have done that even if the treatment hadn't worked. He was very concerned about the Prednisolone opening her up to secondary infections but once he saw the numbers start to improve he was convinced we were doing the right thing and told us to keep it up. I am going to talk to him about continuing the Doxy. Robert, that's a great idea about crushing the Doxy, mixing it in broth and administering with a syringe. We'd tried mixing it in her food once and that did not go well. Obviously it's a very nasty tasting medicine. Ardy and Katherine, thanks for your support. I really wish that more vets were open to trying novel treatments that hold so much potential instead of assuming that they know everything. Randy On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> wrote: > Oh Randy, I am so THRILLED to hear of your positive response to the > medications, and that your vet was so helpful. (What does your vet think of > the response?) You may think that 15% haematocrit is still very sick, and > it is still well outside the normal range, but you’ve basically had a 60% > increase in haematocrit in 3 weeks. That is quite amazing and wonderful. It > is as good a result as you would have had with 2 units of blood being given > as a transfusion, only it is much better than a transfusion because Curly > is producing her own cells, rather than temporarily filling up with someone > else’s blood. > > > > With respect to the Doxy, I am not sure. If it were me, I would probably > want to continue if you can. You’ve had a very good result. Why mess with > the formula? I can’t say definitively, one way or the other, since I very > much figured things out by running weekly blood work and if I saw a dip or > a reversal in the numbers, I would adjust the medication accordingly. I > don’t know if I am right about my Doxy theory (and it is just pure > conjecture on my part, based on my non-vet research) but I really think > that the Doxy is part of the effective package. I feel that the Doxy holds > the virus in check – perhaps slowing down its reproduction by inhibiting > RNA synthesis – enough to allow the body to make some progress with the > Winstrol. I don’t think that the Winstrol on its own is enough. > > > > With the Doxy, I used to scrape the quarter tablet into a slab of butter > to coat it with butter, to help it slide down better, since the quarter > table it very dry and scratchy. I also posted recently that the Doxy we get > from vets (and even from our doctors) is the same as what you can get to > treat fish or birds, in a pet store, and that is sold in powdered packages > of 100 mg (same as 1 tablet). A prescription isn’t needed for it, and > because it is powdered, it can be mixed into food or liquid. > > > > Great news, too, with your success in getting her to eat more and put on > weight. > > > > I love to hear good news on this front. Let’s hope she continues in the > right direction. > > > > Amani > > > > *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf > Of *Randy Henke > *Sent:* January-19-17 9:53 PM > *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement > > > > It has been a little over a month ago that I asked for advice on this > forum for our little girl, Curly. > > At that point, I had little hope. She was so lethargic and her hematocrit > had dipped to a critical 9%. I took everyone's advice, especially Amani's, > and asked our vet for Predisolone, Winstrol and Doxycycline. > > According to her latest CBC two weeks ago, she is still a very sick kitty > but her hematocrit rebounded to 15% which I know is still very low. All > other numbers are improving slowly as well. That was after less than three > weeks of treatment. > > She is due for another CBC next Tuesday and I am hopeful we will see more > improvement. I've noticed her gums are more pink which I believe is a good > sign. > > We were still having problems with getting her to eat. She would have her > good days and her bad days but her weight was still creeping down. Last > week I asked our vet about Mirtazapine and our vet agreed to give us a > prescription for it. I have to thank Robert for mentioning this in one of > his posts. > > One day last week she didn't want t
Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Hi Ardy. I just discovered this information on line. I had no idea it was the same stuff and you don’t need a prescription for it. Amani From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Ardy Robertson Sent: January-19-17 11:43 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement Hi Amani – you just reminded me that I had purchased Doxycyclene for our 21 year old cockatiel – Selu – a few years ago. He was experiencing some respiratory problems and I had to mix it into his water. It worked well as I remember. Ardy From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amani Oakley Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 9:11 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement Oh Randy, I am so THRILLED to hear of your positive response to the medications, and that your vet was so helpful. (What does your vet think of the response?) You may think that 15% haematocrit is still very sick, and it is still well outside the normal range, but you’ve basically had a 60% increase in haematocrit in 3 weeks. That is quite amazing and wonderful. It is as good a result as you would have had with 2 units of blood being given as a transfusion, only it is much better than a transfusion because Curly is producing her own cells, rather than temporarily filling up with someone else’s blood. With respect to the Doxy, I am not sure. If it were me, I would probably want to continue if you can. You’ve had a very good result. Why mess with the formula? I can’t say definitively, one way or the other, since I very much figured things out by running weekly blood work and if I saw a dip or a reversal in the numbers, I would adjust the medication accordingly. I don’t know if I am right about my Doxy theory (and it is just pure conjecture on my part, based on my non-vet research) but I really think that the Doxy is part of the effective package. I feel that the Doxy holds the virus in check – perhaps slowing down its reproduction by inhibiting RNA synthesis – enough to allow the body to make some progress with the Winstrol. I don’t think that the Winstrol on its own is enough. With the Doxy, I used to scrape the quarter tablet into a slab of butter to coat it with butter, to help it slide down better, since the quarter table it very dry and scratchy. I also posted recently that the Doxy we get from vets (and even from our doctors) is the same as what you can get to treat fish or birds, in a pet store, and that is sold in powdered packages of 100 mg (same as 1 tablet). A prescription isn’t needed for it, and because it is powdered, it can be mixed into food or liquid. Great news, too, with your success in getting her to eat more and put on weight. I love to hear good news on this front. Let’s hope she continues in the right direction. Amani From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy Henke Sent: January-19-17 9:53 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> Subject: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement It has been a little over a month ago that I asked for advice on this forum for our little girl, Curly. At that point, I had little hope. She was so lethargic and her hematocrit had dipped to a critical 9%. I took everyone's advice, especially Amani's, and asked our vet for Predisolone, Winstrol and Doxycycline. According to her latest CBC two weeks ago, she is still a very sick kitty but her hematocrit rebounded to 15% which I know is still very low. All other numbers are improving slowly as well. That was after less than three weeks of treatment. She is due for another CBC next Tuesday and I am hopeful we will see more improvement. I've noticed her gums are more pink which I believe is a good sign. We were still having problems with getting her to eat. She would have her good days and her bad days but her weight was still creeping down. Last week I asked our vet about Mirtazapine and our vet agreed to give us a prescription for it. I have to thank Robert for mentioning this in one of his posts. One day last week she didn't want to eat so I gave her a quarter pill (3.75 mg) which is the dose our vet prescribed to give her daily. The result was phenomenal and almost a little scary. She was bouncing off the walls within a few hours and eating everything she could get her paws on. I almost felt a little sorry for her because it was like she couldn't sit still for more than a couple of minutes. But it was like getting our old Curly back again in just a single day! The effect tapered off after a couple of days and we didn't feel comfortable giving her another dose until she stopped eating again because of how dramatic the change was. I've read online that a smaller dose could be effective if given every 72 hours so we are going to try doing that so she
Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Mirtazapine has been an amazing help for my cat too! He has struggled on and off through the years with not eating enough. We call it the cranky pill because it makes him meow loudly and demandingly in our faces for more food. :) Luckily he's had a pretty healthy appetite and we only have to use it sparingly now. It is hilarious and a very helpful way to jumpstart a low appetite. On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 11:42 PM, Ardy Robertson <ar...@centurytel.net> wrote: > Thanks for the update – I’m so VERY happy to hear about Curly’s > improvements, not only for your kitty but for all the others, and their > vets, who may begin to trust the Winstrol-Prednisolone-Doxycyclene punch > for FeLV!! > > > > Ardy > > > > *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf > Of *Randy Henke > *Sent:* Thursday, January 19, 2017 8:53 PM > *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement > > > > It has been a little over a month ago that I asked for advice on this > forum for our little girl, Curly. > > At that point, I had little hope. She was so lethargic and her hematocrit > had dipped to a critical 9%. I took everyone's advice, especially Amani's, > and asked our vet for Predisolone, Winstrol and Doxycycline. > > According to her latest CBC two weeks ago, she is still a very sick kitty > but her hematocrit rebounded to 15% which I know is still very low. All > other numbers are improving slowly as well. That was after less than three > weeks of treatment. > > She is due for another CBC next Tuesday and I am hopeful we will see more > improvement. I've noticed her gums are more pink which I believe is a good > sign. > > We were still having problems with getting her to eat. She would have her > good days and her bad days but her weight was still creeping down. Last > week I asked our vet about Mirtazapine and our vet agreed to give us a > prescription for it. I have to thank Robert for mentioning this in one of > his posts. > > One day last week she didn't want to eat so I gave her a quarter pill > (3.75 mg) which is the dose our vet prescribed to give her daily. The > result was phenomenal and almost a little scary. She was bouncing off the > walls within a few hours and eating everything she could get her paws on. I > almost felt a little sorry for her because it was like she couldn't sit > still for more than a couple of minutes. But it was like getting our old > Curly back again in just a single day! > > The effect tapered off after a couple of days and we didn't feel > comfortable giving her another dose until she stopped eating again because > of how dramatic the change was. I've read online that a smaller dose could > be effective if given every 72 hours so we are going to try doing that so > she keeps eating. It was incredible to see her weight go up by a quarter > pound in just a couple of days. > > We are continuing the Prednisolone and Winstrol at the recommended doses > but our two week Doxycycline prescription ran out over a week ago. She does > appear to still be making improvement without it but I'm wondering if I > should ask for another prescription to keep that going as well. > > I always worry about giving her the quarter pill of Doxy because I know it > can cause esophageal damage if it isn't followed by liquids. I was > following the pill with the liquid Winstrol solution but wasn't sure if > that was enough. > > Many thanks to everyone who gave us advice. It looks like we might have > our Curly back for at least a while yet and it's all because of you people. > > Randy > > > > ___ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Hi Amani – you just reminded me that I had purchased Doxycyclene for our 21 year old cockatiel – Selu – a few years ago. He was experiencing some respiratory problems and I had to mix it into his water. It worked well as I remember. Ardy From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amani Oakley Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 9:11 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement Oh Randy, I am so THRILLED to hear of your positive response to the medications, and that your vet was so helpful. (What does your vet think of the response?) You may think that 15% haematocrit is still very sick, and it is still well outside the normal range, but you’ve basically had a 60% increase in haematocrit in 3 weeks. That is quite amazing and wonderful. It is as good a result as you would have had with 2 units of blood being given as a transfusion, only it is much better than a transfusion because Curly is producing her own cells, rather than temporarily filling up with someone else’s blood. With respect to the Doxy, I am not sure. If it were me, I would probably want to continue if you can. You’ve had a very good result. Why mess with the formula? I can’t say definitively, one way or the other, since I very much figured things out by running weekly blood work and if I saw a dip or a reversal in the numbers, I would adjust the medication accordingly. I don’t know if I am right about my Doxy theory (and it is just pure conjecture on my part, based on my non-vet research) but I really think that the Doxy is part of the effective package. I feel that the Doxy holds the virus in check – perhaps slowing down its reproduction by inhibiting RNA synthesis – enough to allow the body to make some progress with the Winstrol. I don’t think that the Winstrol on its own is enough. With the Doxy, I used to scrape the quarter tablet into a slab of butter to coat it with butter, to help it slide down better, since the quarter table it very dry and scratchy. I also posted recently that the Doxy we get from vets (and even from our doctors) is the same as what you can get to treat fish or birds, in a pet store, and that is sold in powdered packages of 100 mg (same as 1 tablet). A prescription isn’t needed for it, and because it is powdered, it can be mixed into food or liquid. Great news, too, with your success in getting her to eat more and put on weight. I love to hear good news on this front. Let’s hope she continues in the right direction. Amani From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy Henke Sent: January-19-17 9:53 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> Subject: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement It has been a little over a month ago that I asked for advice on this forum for our little girl, Curly. At that point, I had little hope. She was so lethargic and her hematocrit had dipped to a critical 9%. I took everyone's advice, especially Amani's, and asked our vet for Predisolone, Winstrol and Doxycycline. According to her latest CBC two weeks ago, she is still a very sick kitty but her hematocrit rebounded to 15% which I know is still very low. All other numbers are improving slowly as well. That was after less than three weeks of treatment. She is due for another CBC next Tuesday and I am hopeful we will see more improvement. I've noticed her gums are more pink which I believe is a good sign. We were still having problems with getting her to eat. She would have her good days and her bad days but her weight was still creeping down. Last week I asked our vet about Mirtazapine and our vet agreed to give us a prescription for it. I have to thank Robert for mentioning this in one of his posts. One day last week she didn't want to eat so I gave her a quarter pill (3.75 mg) which is the dose our vet prescribed to give her daily. The result was phenomenal and almost a little scary. She was bouncing off the walls within a few hours and eating everything she could get her paws on. I almost felt a little sorry for her because it was like she couldn't sit still for more than a couple of minutes. But it was like getting our old Curly back again in just a single day! The effect tapered off after a couple of days and we didn't feel comfortable giving her another dose until she stopped eating again because of how dramatic the change was. I've read online that a smaller dose could be effective if given every 72 hours so we are going to try doing that so she keeps eating. It was incredible to see her weight go up by a quarter pound in just a couple of days. We are continuing the Prednisolone and Winstrol at the recommended doses but our two week Doxycycline prescription ran out over a week ago. She does appear to still be making improvement without it but I'm wondering if I should ask for another prescription t
Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Thanks for the update – I’m so VERY happy to hear about Curly’s improvements, not only for your kitty but for all the others, and their vets, who may begin to trust the Winstrol-Prednisolone-Doxycyclene punch for FeLV!! Ardy From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy Henke Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 8:53 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement It has been a little over a month ago that I asked for advice on this forum for our little girl, Curly. At that point, I had little hope. She was so lethargic and her hematocrit had dipped to a critical 9%. I took everyone's advice, especially Amani's, and asked our vet for Predisolone, Winstrol and Doxycycline. According to her latest CBC two weeks ago, she is still a very sick kitty but her hematocrit rebounded to 15% which I know is still very low. All other numbers are improving slowly as well. That was after less than three weeks of treatment. She is due for another CBC next Tuesday and I am hopeful we will see more improvement. I've noticed her gums are more pink which I believe is a good sign. We were still having problems with getting her to eat. She would have her good days and her bad days but her weight was still creeping down. Last week I asked our vet about Mirtazapine and our vet agreed to give us a prescription for it. I have to thank Robert for mentioning this in one of his posts. One day last week she didn't want to eat so I gave her a quarter pill (3.75 mg) which is the dose our vet prescribed to give her daily. The result was phenomenal and almost a little scary. She was bouncing off the walls within a few hours and eating everything she could get her paws on. I almost felt a little sorry for her because it was like she couldn't sit still for more than a couple of minutes. But it was like getting our old Curly back again in just a single day! The effect tapered off after a couple of days and we didn't feel comfortable giving her another dose until she stopped eating again because of how dramatic the change was. I've read online that a smaller dose could be effective if given every 72 hours so we are going to try doing that so she keeps eating. It was incredible to see her weight go up by a quarter pound in just a couple of days. We are continuing the Prednisolone and Winstrol at the recommended doses but our two week Doxycycline prescription ran out over a week ago. She does appear to still be making improvement without it but I'm wondering if I should ask for another prescription to keep that going as well. I always worry about giving her the quarter pill of Doxy because I know it can cause esophageal damage if it isn't followed by liquids. I was following the pill with the liquid Winstrol solution but wasn't sure if that was enough. Many thanks to everyone who gave us advice. It looks like we might have our Curly back for at least a while yet and it's all because of you people. Randy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
Oh Randy, I am so THRILLED to hear of your positive response to the medications, and that your vet was so helpful. (What does your vet think of the response?) You may think that 15% haematocrit is still very sick, and it is still well outside the normal range, but you’ve basically had a 60% increase in haematocrit in 3 weeks. That is quite amazing and wonderful. It is as good a result as you would have had with 2 units of blood being given as a transfusion, only it is much better than a transfusion because Curly is producing her own cells, rather than temporarily filling up with someone else’s blood. With respect to the Doxy, I am not sure. If it were me, I would probably want to continue if you can. You’ve had a very good result. Why mess with the formula? I can’t say definitively, one way or the other, since I very much figured things out by running weekly blood work and if I saw a dip or a reversal in the numbers, I would adjust the medication accordingly. I don’t know if I am right about my Doxy theory (and it is just pure conjecture on my part, based on my non-vet research) but I really think that the Doxy is part of the effective package. I feel that the Doxy holds the virus in check – perhaps slowing down its reproduction by inhibiting RNA synthesis – enough to allow the body to make some progress with the Winstrol. I don’t think that the Winstrol on its own is enough. With the Doxy, I used to scrape the quarter tablet into a slab of butter to coat it with butter, to help it slide down better, since the quarter table it very dry and scratchy. I also posted recently that the Doxy we get from vets (and even from our doctors) is the same as what you can get to treat fish or birds, in a pet store, and that is sold in powdered packages of 100 mg (same as 1 tablet). A prescription isn’t needed for it, and because it is powdered, it can be mixed into food or liquid. Great news, too, with your success in getting her to eat more and put on weight. I love to hear good news on this front. Let’s hope she continues in the right direction. Amani From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy Henke Sent: January-19-17 9:53 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement It has been a little over a month ago that I asked for advice on this forum for our little girl, Curly. At that point, I had little hope. She was so lethargic and her hematocrit had dipped to a critical 9%. I took everyone's advice, especially Amani's, and asked our vet for Predisolone, Winstrol and Doxycycline. According to her latest CBC two weeks ago, she is still a very sick kitty but her hematocrit rebounded to 15% which I know is still very low. All other numbers are improving slowly as well. That was after less than three weeks of treatment. She is due for another CBC next Tuesday and I am hopeful we will see more improvement. I've noticed her gums are more pink which I believe is a good sign. We were still having problems with getting her to eat. She would have her good days and her bad days but her weight was still creeping down. Last week I asked our vet about Mirtazapine and our vet agreed to give us a prescription for it. I have to thank Robert for mentioning this in one of his posts. One day last week she didn't want to eat so I gave her a quarter pill (3.75 mg) which is the dose our vet prescribed to give her daily. The result was phenomenal and almost a little scary. She was bouncing off the walls within a few hours and eating everything she could get her paws on. I almost felt a little sorry for her because it was like she couldn't sit still for more than a couple of minutes. But it was like getting our old Curly back again in just a single day! The effect tapered off after a couple of days and we didn't feel comfortable giving her another dose until she stopped eating again because of how dramatic the change was. I've read online that a smaller dose could be effective if given every 72 hours so we are going to try doing that so she keeps eating. It was incredible to see her weight go up by a quarter pound in just a couple of days. We are continuing the Prednisolone and Winstrol at the recommended doses but our two week Doxycycline prescription ran out over a week ago. She does appear to still be making improvement without it but I'm wondering if I should ask for another prescription to keep that going as well. I always worry about giving her the quarter pill of Doxy because I know it can cause esophageal damage if it isn't followed by liquids. I was following the pill with the liquid Winstrol solution but wasn't sure if that was enough. Many thanks to everyone who gave us advice. It looks like we might have our Curly back for at least a while yet and it's all because of you people. Randy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http
[Felvtalk] Curly's gradual improvement
It has been a little over a month ago that I asked for advice on this forum for our little girl, Curly. At that point, I had little hope. She was so lethargic and her hematocrit had dipped to a critical 9%. I took everyone's advice, especially Amani's, and asked our vet for Predisolone, Winstrol and Doxycycline. According to her latest CBC two weeks ago, she is still a very sick kitty but her hematocrit rebounded to 15% which I know is still very low. All other numbers are improving slowly as well. That was after less than three weeks of treatment. She is due for another CBC next Tuesday and I am hopeful we will see more improvement. I've noticed her gums are more pink which I believe is a good sign. We were still having problems with getting her to eat. She would have her good days and her bad days but her weight was still creeping down. Last week I asked our vet about Mirtazapine and our vet agreed to give us a prescription for it. I have to thank Robert for mentioning this in one of his posts. One day last week she didn't want to eat so I gave her a quarter pill (3.75 mg) which is the dose our vet prescribed to give her daily. The result was phenomenal and almost a little scary. She was bouncing off the walls within a few hours and eating everything she could get her paws on. I almost felt a little sorry for her because it was like she couldn't sit still for more than a couple of minutes. But it was like getting our old Curly back again in just a single day! The effect tapered off after a couple of days and we didn't feel comfortable giving her another dose until she stopped eating again because of how dramatic the change was. I've read online that a smaller dose could be effective if given every 72 hours so we are going to try doing that so she keeps eating. It was incredible to see her weight go up by a quarter pound in just a couple of days. We are continuing the Prednisolone and Winstrol at the recommended doses but our two week Doxycycline prescription ran out over a week ago. She does appear to still be making improvement without it but I'm wondering if I should ask for another prescription to keep that going as well. I always worry about giving her the quarter pill of Doxy because I know it can cause esophageal damage if it isn't followed by liquids. I was following the pill with the liquid Winstrol solution but wasn't sure if that was enough. Many thanks to everyone who gave us advice. It looks like we might have our Curly back for at least a while yet and it's all because of you people. Randy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
