Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade

2003-12-19 Thread Robert E. Bowd



Hi Harry,
 
We have to differ in our understanding of what is 
happening in education.  Ideological responses to our reading of the world 
always influence education.  "A Nation AT Risk", "No Child Left Behind", 
the personae of Bill Bennett and Rod Paige, and others, are part of a 
conservative reading of what's wrong in education.  Indeed, your embrace of 
phonics and your implicit criticism of whole language learning is part of the 
conservative critique of schooling.  Your criticism of educational 
bureacracy is a valid one, one on which you would get agreement on both the left 
and right, along with my own agreement.  There are a number of studies that 
would support you in the perspective that schools often construct experiences 
and create rules and regulations that benefit, primarily, the adults who run 
them, rather than the young who come there to learn.  This is a problem, 
but it only means that we need to have a conversation in our communities about 
the way we educate our young for the future.  And I do not mean striking a 
stacked committee with all of the usual suspects in the local education 
foodchain.  Although they use the rhetoric of 'thinking outside the box', 
many of these folks are not capable of doing so because of their groupthink 
blinders.  Schools have never been very democratic places, and they are 
less so today.  Don't get fooled by the keywords that educational mangagers 
often use in public forums.
 
Let's not forget that schools are also a place of 
work, for both adults and students and need to be put under the microscope of 
'futurework'.
 
I will share a brief anecdote from an interview I 
have been transcribing.  I was talking to a teacher about his perception of 
funding inequities around support for high stakes testing.  He observed 
that the testocrats of the school board's test bureaucracy were being lavishly 
overfunded (expensive lunches and office furniture which sat dormant for months, 
rather than being used) when his text book budget was frozen and his students 
were being forced to share texts.  Needless to say, it created havoc in his 
classroom management of homework assignments.  The Weberian perspective 
that this is a characteristic of bureacracy is valid, but I think we have to 
push our analysis a little deeper to get at the root problems.  There are 
social linkages and networks here which are often very revealing of what's 
really going on.
 
Have a good holiday, Harry!
 
Best,
Bob

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Harry Pollard 
  To: 'Robert E. Bowd' ; 'Keith 
  Hudson' 
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 2:37 
  AM
  Subject: RE: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: 
  Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. 
  Modern Trade
  
  
  Bob,
   
  Good 
  article. However, this isn’t a “conservative” 
  problem.
   
  The 
  look-say nonsense wasn’t right-wing. The 8th grade LA kids are 
  doing better than the 10th graders. This is because the 
  8th are back to phonetics. Yet a generation of kids failed to learn 
  to read because of a silly idea.
   
  The problem 
  is always the same. A public body grows and grows and it’s primary objective 
  changes to maintaining itself. This is true of all educational bodies up to 
  the highest in the land. Fudging results is part of the 
  operation.
   
  Actually 
  teaching kids is way down the list.
   
  It’s 
  sad.
   
  Harry
  
   
  Henry George School of Social Science of Los Angeles Box 655  
  Tujunga  CA  91042 Tel: 818 
  352-4141  --  Fax: 818 353-2242 http://haledward.home.comcast.net 
     
  
  
  
  From: Robert 
  E. Bowd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 2:30 
  PMTo: Harry Pollard; 'Keith 
  Hudson'Cc: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: 
  Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. 
  Modern Trade
   
  
  Hi 
  Harry,
  
   
  
  I think the letter, below, about 
  sums up the current state of education during the conservative restoration in 
  America.  Canada is still relatively better, but there 
  are governance, funding, and curriculum problems, including attempts to 
  imitate what is happening in America, and the inadequate 
  provision of educational support to our large immigrant population.  
  
  
   
  
  I personally don't believe the 
  evaluative state (standards and high stakes testing created by test experts, 
  education technocrats, and their minority allies in the 
  community) works.  Education needs to be cut free from the corporate 
  agenda of the Business Roundtable and the Business Council On National 
  Issues.  The normalisation of curricular forms based on the way the 
  private sector conducts business (!) needs to be a

Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade

2003-12-19 Thread Ray Evans Harrell



Ideas that limit are always silly ideas.
 
REH 
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Harry Pollard 
  To: 'Robert E. Bowd' ; 'Keith 
  Hudson' 
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 2:37 
  AM
  Subject: RE: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: 
  Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. 
  Modern Trade
  
  
  Bob,
   
  Good 
  article. However, this isn’t a “conservative” 
  problem.
   
  The 
  look-say nonsense wasn’t right-wing. The 8th grade LA kids are 
  doing better than the 10th graders. This is because the 
  8th are back to phonetics. Yet a generation of kids failed to learn 
  to read because of a silly idea.
   
  The problem 
  is always the same. A public body grows and grows and it’s primary objective 
  changes to maintaining itself. This is true of all educational bodies up to 
  the highest in the land. Fudging results is part of the 
  operation.
   
  Actually 
  teaching kids is way down the list.
   
  It’s 
  sad.
   
  Harry
  
   
  Henry George School of Social Science of Los Angeles Box 655  
  Tujunga  CA  91042 Tel: 818 
  352-4141  --  Fax: 818 353-2242 http://haledward.home.comcast.net 
     
  
  
  
  From: Robert 
  E. Bowd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 2:30 
  PMTo: Harry Pollard; 'Keith 
  Hudson'Cc: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: 
  Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. 
  Modern Trade
   
  
  Hi 
  Harry,
  
   
  
  I think the letter, below, about 
  sums up the current state of education during the conservative restoration in 
  America.  Canada is still relatively better, but there 
  are governance, funding, and curriculum problems, including attempts to 
  imitate what is happening in America, and the inadequate 
  provision of educational support to our large immigrant population.  
  
  
   
  
  I personally don't believe the 
  evaluative state (standards and high stakes testing created by test experts, 
  education technocrats, and their minority allies in the 
  community) works.  Education needs to be cut free from the corporate 
  agenda of the Business Roundtable and the Business Council On National 
  Issues.  The normalisation of curricular forms based on the way the 
  private sector conducts business (!) needs to be abandoned.  A lot more 
  thought needs to be given to how the growth and development of children, in 
  schools, relates to the kinds of communities we want.  Currently, I do 
  not believe the schools are creating the kind of subjectivities able to face 
  the kind of future we are facing as a society.  Critical thinking is 
  more often taught as a technical skill to be placed in an organizational tool 
  kit for coping with the information society, rather than as a complex, 
  contradictory, creative, tension-ridden, open-ended skill that blends 
  historical memory, ethics, imagination, intuition, cultural common sense, and 
  reason.  And so on.  
  
   
  
  Good to talk to you, 
  Harry.
  
   
  
  BB
  
   
  
  From today's Prince Georges County 
  Journal -- by a PG County Elementary School Teacher ...Truth left 
  behind Dec 11 Journal The current reality 
  of public education in the United States is based on fiction. 
  The reasons behind the so-called ``No Child Left Behind" (NCLB) act have 
  turned out to be a lie. We have been had.     The real 
  victims are the young people in our country because they will receive an 
  inferior public education under the current law. The lies behind the NCLB were 
  brought to us by the political leadership in Washington.     The 
  current secretary of education, Roderick R. Paige, was superintendent of the 
  Houston, Texas, school district before coming to Washington. The Bush 
  administration fashioned the NCLB based on the concepts of accountability and 
  high-stakes testing which Paige championed in Houston.     We were 
  assured that those concepts led to the ``education miracle" achieved in 
  Houston. The 
  miracle consisted of a disappearing high school dropout rate, greatly rising 
  scores on the statewide test and a narrowing of the achievement gap between 
  white and minority students.     The information from 
  Houston was so 
  good that even Democrats like Sen. Edward Kennedy were convinced of its 
  validity and gave their support for passage of the NCLB. 
      Now comes the bad news: The low dropout rate in 
  Houston is mythical and the rising scores on 
  the Texas 
  state test were manipulated. It is a wonder the Republic is still standing. 
      In the last two months, we have learned the sad facts 
  about Houston, 
  thanks to certain individuals in that education community. Local television 
  station KHOU reported a dropout fiasco at Houston

RE: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade

2003-12-19 Thread Harry Pollard








Bob,

 

Good article.
However, this isn’t a “conservative” problem.

 

The look-say
nonsense wasn’t right-wing. The 8th grade LA kids are doing
better than the 10th graders. This is because the 8th are
back to phonetics. Yet a generation of kids failed to learn to read because of a
silly idea.

 

The problem is
always the same. A public body grows and grows and it’s primary objective
changes to maintaining itself. This is true of all educational bodies up to the
highest in the land. Fudging results is part of the operation.

 

Actually
teaching kids is way down the list.

 

It’s sad.

 

Harry



 
Henry George School of Social Science 
of Los Angeles 
Box 655  Tujunga  CA  91042 
Tel: 818 352-4141  --  Fax: 818 353-2242 
http://haledward.home.comcast.net 
 
  







From: Robert E. Bowd
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003
2:30 PM
To: Harry Pollard; 'Keith Hudson'
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION
(was RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework]
David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade



 



Hi Harry,





 





I think the letter, below, about sums up the current state
of education during the conservative restoration in America.  Canada is still relatively better, but there are
governance, funding, and curriculum problems, including attempts to imitate
what is happening in America,
and the inadequate provision of educational support to our large immigrant
population.  





 





I personally don't believe the evaluative state (standards
and high stakes testing created by test experts, education technocrats, and
their minority allies in the community) works.  Education needs to be
cut free from the corporate agenda of the Business Roundtable and the Business
Council On National Issues.  The normalisation of curricular forms based
on the way the private sector conducts business (!) needs to be abandoned. 
A lot more thought needs to be given to how the growth and development of
children, in schools, relates to the kinds of communities we want. 
Currently, I do not believe the schools are creating the kind of subjectivities
able to face the kind of future we are facing as a society.  Critical
thinking is more often taught as a technical skill to be placed in an
organizational tool kit for coping with the information society, rather than as
a complex, contradictory, creative, tension-ridden, open-ended skill that
blends historical memory, ethics, imagination, intuition, cultural common
sense, and reason.  And so on.  





 





Good to talk to you, Harry.





 





BB





 





From today's Prince
Georges County Journal -- by a PG County Elementary School Teacher ...

Truth left behind 
Dec 11 Journal

 The current reality of public education in the United States
is based on fiction. The reasons behind the so-called ``No Child Left
Behind" (NCLB) act have turned out to be a lie. We have been had. 
    The real victims are the young people in our country because
they will receive an inferior public education under the current law. The lies
behind the NCLB were brought to us by the political leadership in Washington. 
    The current secretary of education, Roderick R. Paige, was
superintendent of the Houston, Texas,
school district before coming to Washington.
The Bush administration fashioned the NCLB based on the concepts of
accountability and high-stakes testing which Paige championed in Houston. 
    We were assured that those concepts led to the ``education
miracle" achieved in Houston.
The miracle consisted of a disappearing high school dropout rate, greatly
rising scores on the statewide test and a narrowing of the achievement gap
between white and minority students. 
    The information from Houston
was so good that even Democrats like Sen. Edward Kennedy were convinced of its
validity and gave their support for passage of the NCLB. 
    Now comes the bad news: The low dropout rate in Houston is mythical and the rising scores on the Texas state test were
manipulated. It is a wonder the Republic is still standing. 
    In the last two months, we have learned the sad facts about Houston, thanks to
certain individuals in that education community. Local television station KHOU
reported a dropout fiasco at Houston's Sharpstown High School. By changing the codes of
students who dropped out, the school made it appear that very few students
didn't finish high school. 
    State auditors found similar stories at 14 other Houston high schools. Austin also had unusually
low dropout rates. School officials concede that the reported dropout rates
were worthless and are no longer using them in accountability studies. 
    During Rod Paige's tenure as superintendent in Houston, some amazing
academic progress took place. In 1995, his first year in Austin,
only 26 percent of tenth graders in Austin
High Scho

RE: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade

2003-12-19 Thread Harry Pollard
Title: Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: Slightly extended (was Re:
 [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n  Trade vs. Modern Trade








Tom,

 

You seem to be
pretty good to me.

 

Harry

 



 
Henry George School of Social Science 
of Los Angeles 
Box 655  Tujunga  CA  91042 
Tel: 818 352-4141  --  Fax: 818 353-2242 
http://haledward.home.comcast.net 
 
  











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Thomas Lunde
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003
11:08 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION
(was RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework]
David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade



 

Thomas:


Well, I've come out a working class envirnoment as well and I haven't
accomplished shit.  Maybe I didn't have the luck!  Maybe I was
deficient in some character trait!  Maybe, I made a wrong choice or
several?  Who knows and who cares?  I don't parade my wherewithals
for I have none.  Would I wish that it was different?  Only
economically as for most of my years I have earned below average which leaves
me constantly scrabbling for "need" money.  Forget disposable
income in my life - one or your lunches would cover my monthly quota.

Am I whining - yeah, a little bit.  Am I fairly happy, I would answer yes.
  Thank god for the Internet, I was getting tired of theorizing to
myself and books don't talk back.  Love ya all. 
--

 








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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade

2003-12-17 Thread Robert E. Bowd



Hi Harry,
 
I think the letter, below, about sums up the 
current state of education during the conservative restoration in America.  
Canada is still relatively better, but there are governance, funding, and 
curriculum problems, including attempts to imitate what is happening in America, 
and the inadequate provision of educational support to our large immigrant 
population.  
 
I personally don't believe the evaluative state 
(standards and high stakes testing created by test experts, education 
technocrats, and their minority allies in the community) works.  
Education needs to be cut free from the corporate agenda of the Business 
Roundtable and the Business Council On National Issues.  The normalisation 
of curricular forms based on the way the private sector conducts business (!) 
needs to be abandoned.  A lot more thought needs to be given to how the 
growth and development of children, in schools, relates to the kinds of 
communities we want.  Currently, I do not believe the schools are creating 
the kind of subjectivities able to face the kind of future we are facing as 
a society.  Critical thinking is more often taught as a technical 
skill to be placed in an organizational tool kit for coping with the information 
society, rather than as a complex, contradictory, creative, 
tension-ridden, open-ended skill that blends historical memory, ethics, 
imagination, intuition, cultural common sense, and reason.  And so 
on.  
 
Good to talk to you, Harry.
 
BB
 
From today's Prince Georges County Journal -- by a PG County Elementary 
School Teacher ...Truth left behind Dec 11 
Journal The current reality of public education 
in the United States is based on fiction. The reasons behind the so-called ``No 
Child Left Behind" (NCLB) act have turned out to be a lie. We have been had. 
    The real victims are the young people in our country 
because they will receive an inferior public education under the current law. 
The lies behind the NCLB were brought to us by the political leadership in 
Washington.     The current secretary of education, Roderick 
R. Paige, was superintendent of the Houston, Texas, school district before 
coming to Washington. The Bush administration fashioned the NCLB based on the 
concepts of accountability and high-stakes testing which Paige championed in 
Houston.     We were assured that those concepts led to the 
``education miracle" achieved in Houston. The miracle consisted of a 
disappearing high school dropout rate, greatly rising scores on the statewide 
test and a narrowing of the achievement gap between white and minority students. 
    The information from Houston was so good that even 
Democrats like Sen. Edward Kennedy were convinced of its validity and gave their 
support for passage of the NCLB.     Now comes the bad news: 
The low dropout rate in Houston is mythical and the rising scores on the Texas 
state test were manipulated. It is a wonder the Republic is still standing. 
    In the last two months, we have learned the sad facts 
about Houston, thanks to certain individuals in that education community. Local 
television station KHOU reported a dropout fiasco at Houston's Sharpstown High 
School. By changing the codes of students who dropped out, the school made it 
appear that very few students didn't finish high school.     
State auditors found similar stories at 14 other Houston high schools. Austin 
also had unusually low dropout rates. School officials concede that the reported 
dropout rates were worthless and are no longer using them in accountability 
studies.     During Rod Paige's tenure as superintendent in 
Houston, some amazing academic progress took place. In 1995, his first year in 
Austin, only 26 percent of tenth graders in Austin High School passed the Texas 
math test. By the 2000-01 school year, 99 percent of tenth graders passed the 
test.     According to a common practice, administrators are 
allowed to hold back weak students in the ninth grade for one or two years, then 
skip them on to the eleventh grade, effectively excluding them from taking the 
tenth grade test.     According to some educators in Houston, 
this is commonly done, and it explains the spectacular rise in test scores under 
Paige's leadership.     The New York Times also examined the 
performance of Houston students and reported the results on December 3, 2003. 
The newspaper report compared scores on a national exam that Houston students 
took alongside the Texas state exam.     The results show 
that Houston students stagnated in the same place or lost ground compared to 
their counterparts across the nation. A great big gap exists between the 
national test results and the Texas state results.     
Remember, the success of Houston's schools was used as a backdrop and 
justification for the creation of the NCLB with its heavy emphasis on 
accountability.     Prince George's County is closely engaged 
in this debate. Our new CEO, Andre J. Hornsby, is a close

RE: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade

2003-12-17 Thread Harry Pollard
 Bloods” with my friends. We were
all poor so we would swap a lot. “Tuppenny Bloods  were “blood
and thunder” publications for kids. They were full of war stories,
adventure stories, space stories, school stories, and they were called Adventure,
Wizard, Champion, Hotspur, and suchlike.

 

We avidly read about such heroes as the “Wolf of Kabul”
a turbaned English adventurer with his Indian buddy whose name I can’t
remember. I do remember Click-a-Bar his weapon. It was a cricket bat bound with
brass wire which made it a mighty weapon. With it he would crack heads with
abandon.

 

Unbelievably politically incorrect stuff, but it didn’t
seem to do us any harm.

 

Almost no drawings in them – just pages and pages of
text.

 

In 1973, we made our first return trip to England. In Victoria station was a W.
H. Smith piled high with newspapers and books – including a selection of “Tuppenny
Bloods”.

 

I picked them up and found – comics. The only text
were captions – and simple ones at that.

 

What does that say about modern English education?

 

I want neither public, nor private education – I want
the best education. To get it, we need competition in education. I want parents
to be able to choose better schools over poorer schools for their kids. There
is probably no other way to raise standards – which are low.

 

In the free market competition raises quality and lowers
costs. It should be allowed to do the same for education. Unless you have a
better idea.

 

Harry

 



 
Henry George School of Social Science 
of Los Angeles 
Box 655  Tujunga  CA  91042 
Tel: 818 352-4141  --  Fax: 818 353-2242 
http://haledward.home.comcast.net 
 
  











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert E. Bowd
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003
12:31 PM
To: Harry Pollard; Keith Hudson
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION
(was RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework]
David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade



 



Hi Keith and Harry,





 





With the utmost respect for the both of you, I submit the
following.  I consider my working class roots to be as impeccable as
yours.  Like you, I share a strong work ethic, an innate survival
instinct, and a passion for a society better than the one into which I was
born.





 





My father came to Canada
as child labour, as a Barnardo home boy, from England.  Until he was 16 he
was effectively free farm labour, separated from his biological family in
Cambridgeshire, and marginalized by the Canadian family whom he
served.  He suffered emotional and physical abuse, was not allowed to eat
with them, and was denied an education beyond the second grade. 
Shame characterized his life as he wandered the back streets, away from a
public gaze, and tended the gardens of the rich, in my hometown.  My
mother was crippled by polio, from the time she was 4 years old.  She had
many side illnesses in pre-Medicare Canada.  I was raised in
poverty and knew about hunger and class marginalization as a child and bear
that psychological imprint as an adult.





 





The social capital of the Welfare State, after World War 11,
and the ideology of equal opportunity, allowed me to get an education.  It
was the luck of context, however, not any special merit on my part.  I
suspect it is similar with the two of you, respectively.  In a family
of five, I am the only one who finished high school and went on to university
education.  There are many, many bright working class youth as capable as
I am, and as you are.  However, current educational reforms are limiting
the kinds of opportunities we were able to partake of.  





 





I became a teacher and went many, many rounds, with a class
stratified school system, on behalf of my working class students.  As
an educational researcher, my only interest has been in what happens to working
class children in essentially middle class schools.  My current project,
"Whose Standards?: Performance Standards, Globalization, and the
Restructuring of School Knowledge" is part of my attempt to understand
what is happening to working class kids under the current school reforms in
relation to the paradigm shift in the way kid's achievment and teacher
accountability is benchmarked using high stakes testing.  The project has
been supported by SSHRC funding and several scholarships.  I have had lots
of contact with powerful and wealthy people.  I have been a political
activist and president of the riding association of a former Ontario Finance
Minister.  But who cares?  I don't think it has anything to do with
what I contribute to this list.  Rightly, or wrongly, I see this list as a
place for me to learn from some very smart people, exchange views, and get
information, a lot of which I keep for use in my work.





 





My view is that the working class has largely been written
off in the current neoliberal 

Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade

2003-12-16 Thread Robert E. Bowd



Keith,
 
Of course, I don't "owe" you, or anyone else, 
respect.  It is a gift I freely give to others who demonstrate personal 
integrity, regardless of whether I personally agree with them, or not - and 
this is a list where that gift can be generously given.  I have been known 
to be deferential, without being respectful.  Working class people are 
usually pretty good at hiding their class anger, with it usually taking various 
forms of self-destructiveness when it is a problem.  Most of the time it is 
just passive silence, hiding the kind of passionate, 
uncredentialled self-learning (not recognized in the economy) which Thomas 
talks about in his eloquent post.
 
Thank you, Thomas, for your honesty.
 
BB

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Keith 
  Hudson 
  To: Robert E. Bowd 
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  ; Harry Pollard 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 1:16 
  AM
  Subject: Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: 
  Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. 
  Modern Trade
  Hi Bob,At 15:31 15/12/2003 -0500, you 
  wrote:<<<<No personal 
  disrespect is intended towards either you, Keith, or Harry, and I will state 
  unequivocally my respect for you both.  If I have written anything that 
  has offended you, I offer my most deepfelt apologies for doing 
  so.>>>>>Good gracious! No 
  possible offence taken. You don't owe us any respect -- at least not me. 
  Anybody who can write as you have done in your posting (which is in full 
  below) deserves respect in turn.Yes, you are quite right. You didn't 
  say so, but I was being over-dramatic. The fact that Harry and I are working 
  class has nothing to do with it. It was a non sequitur argument on my 
  part!But the fact remains that, in England at least, the state school 
  system is failing badly. As you write 
  here:<<<<My view is that 
  the working class has largely been written off in the current neoliberal 
  reforms, despite the rhetoric of equity.  Failure rates and drop out 
  rates are increasing.  The savage inequalities that have injured the 
  working class and minorities still exist.>>>>There are many contributing factors to all 
  this. It is not just the state education system. The wider social and cultural 
  context is at fault, too. I feel, however, that the civil service must take 
  most of the blame (at least in England) because they (that is, the Department 
  of Education) have allowed the standard of state school teachers to decline so 
  badly and so steadily over the years. Half of newly-'qualified' teachers 
  cannot do simple mathematics. Many of them are actually afraid of the subject. 
  Many (if not most) of those teachers in secondary schools who are trying teach 
  physics (to A-level -- pre-university level) have never learned the subject 
  themselves! Many newly-qualified teachers cannot write a decent sentence. Our 
  FW colleague, Christoph Creuss, with whom I disagree very greatly on several 
  economics issues, who has learned English as a Swiss (in a Swiss state school 
  as he reminds us!), can write English better than most English people -- more 
  than 80% of them, I suggest, and equal to most of the remainder. Not only are 
  his sentences constructed properly but each follows the other in a logical 
  straightforward way that doesn't cause me to re-read each paragraph twice or 
  thrice over to try and understand just what the writer is driving at.I 
  saw a fascinating and very moving Channel 4 programme last night on feral 
  children which is very apposite to what we are discussing and I am hoping to 
  write a little about this in a  separate posting. It very much has to do 
  with brain development in the earliest months and years of the child (for 
  which the teachers and the education authorities are not directly to blame) -- 
  and this is the direction from which I approach educational matters.I 
  was bitten by the Skinnerian bug when I was a young man. In fact, I became so 
  interested in Skinner's researches that I left chemistry for a couple of years 
  and became the first professional writer of learning programmes in England. 
  But that experience -- and the subsequent failure of programmed learning 
  (except for the very highly motivated) -- taught me that one should not be 
  carried away by ideologies, especially in education, and this has caused me to 
  become very suspicious of the succession of theories that we have seen in the 
  educationalists' world in the last 30 years. It has only been the advent of 
  basic science in the subject in only the last 10 years or so -- mainly from 
  the various neurosciences -- which is now bringing some order and sense to the 
  proceedings.The neurosciences are also, at last, beginning to marry 
  the respective contributions of environment and genetics in the overall scheme 
  of things. So I will

Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade

2003-12-16 Thread Thomas Lunde
Title: Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: Slightly extended (was Re:  [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n  Trade vs. Modern Trade



Thomas:


Well, I've come out a working class envirnoment as well and I haven't accomplished shit.  Maybe I didn't have the luck!  Maybe I was deficient in some character trait!  Maybe, I made a wrong choice or several?  Who knows and who cares?  I don't parade my wherewithals for I have none.  Would I wish that it was different?  Only economically as for most of my years I have earned below average which leaves me constantly scrabbling for "need" money.  Forget disposable income in my life - one or your lunches would cover my monthly quota.

Am I whining - yeah, a little bit.  Am I fairly happy, I would answer yes.   Thank god for the Internet, I was getting tired of theorizing to myself and books don't talk back.  Love ya all. 
--
From: "Robert E. Bowd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Harry Pollard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Keith Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: Slightly extended (was Re:  [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n  Trade vs. Modern Trade
Date: Mon, Dec 15, 2003, 3:31 PM


Hi Keith and Harry,
 
With the utmost respect for the both of you, I submit the following.  I consider my working class roots to be as impeccable as yours.  Like you, I share a strong work ethic, an innate survival instinct, and a passion for a society better than the one into which I was born.
 
My father came to Canada as child labour, as a Barnardo home boy, from England.  Until he was 16 he was effectively free farm labour, separated from his biological family in Cambridgeshire, and marginalized by the Canadian family whom he served.  He suffered emotional and physical abuse, was not allowed to eat with them, and was denied an education beyond the second grade.  Shame characterized his life as he wandered the back streets, away from a public gaze, and tended the gardens of the rich, in my hometown.  My mother was crippled by polio, from the time she was 4 years old.  She had many side illnesses in pre-Medicare Canada.  I was raised in poverty and knew about hunger and class marginalization as a child and bear that psychological imprint as an adult.
 
The social capital of the Welfare State, after World War 11, and the ideology of equal opportunity, allowed me to get an education.  It was the luck of context, however, not any special merit on my part.  I suspect it is similar with the two of you, respectively.  In a family of five, I am the only one who finished high school and went on to university education.  There are many, many bright working class youth as capable as I am, and as you are.  However, current educational reforms are limiting the kinds of opportunities we were able to partake of.  
 
I became a teacher and went many, many rounds, with a class stratified school system, on behalf of my working class students.  As an educational researcher, my only interest has been in what happens to working class children in essentially middle class schools.  My current project, "Whose Standards?: Performance Standards, Globalization, and the Restructuring of School Knowledge" is part of my attempt to understand what is happening to working class kids under the current school reforms in relation to the paradigm shift in the way kid's achievment and teacher accountability is benchmarked using high stakes testing.  The project has been supported by SSHRC funding and several scholarships.  I have had lots of contact with powerful and wealthy people.  I have been a political activist and president of the riding association of a former Ontario Finance Minister.  But who cares?  I don't think it has anything to do with what I contribute to this list.  Rightly, or wrongly, I see this list as a place for me to learn from some very smart people, exchange views, and get information, a lot of which I keep for use in my work.
 
My view is that the working class has largely been written off in the current neoliberal reforms, despite the rhetoric of equity.  Failure rates and drop out rates are increasing.  The savage inequalities that have injured the working class and minorities still exist.
 
I can assure you that to imply that there is a correlation between being working class and supporting private education is absolutely spurious.  I worked for several years on large scale surveys of public attitudes towards education in Ontario and we found no evidence that working class respondents, in significant numbers, were supportive of this kind of change.  In fact, most working class activists see private education as a threat to working class opportunity.  
 
Studies of working class resistance indicate that some working class youth internalize the meritocratic myths of middle class schooling and thrive within them.  Paul Willis's classic study of working class

Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade

2003-12-16 Thread Keith Hudson


Hi Bob,
At 15:31 15/12/2003 -0500, you wrote:

No personal disrespect is intended
towards either you, Keith, or Harry, and I will state unequivocally my
respect for you both.  If I have written anything that has offended
you, I offer my most deepfelt apologies for doing so.
>
Good gracious! No possible offence taken. You don't owe us
any respect -- at least not me. Anybody who can write as you have done in
your posting (which is in full below) deserves respect in turn.
Yes, you are quite right. You didn't say so, but I was being
over-dramatic. The fact that Harry and I are working class has nothing to
do with it. It was a non sequitur argument on my part!
But the fact remains that, in England at least, the state school system
is failing badly. As you write here:

My view is that the working class has
largely been written off in the current neoliberal reforms, despite the
rhetoric of equity.  Failure rates and drop out rates are
increasing.  The savage inequalities that have injured the working
class and minorities still exist.

There are many contributing factors to all this. It is not just the state
education system. The wider social and cultural context is at fault, too.
I feel, however, that the civil service must take most of the blame (at
least in England) because they (that is, the Department of Education)
have allowed the standard of state school teachers to decline so badly
and so steadily over the years. Half of newly-'qualified' teachers cannot
do simple mathematics. Many of them are actually afraid of the subject.
Many (if not most) of those teachers in secondary schools who are trying
teach physics (to A-level -- pre-university level) have never learned the
subject themselves! Many newly-qualified teachers cannot write a decent
sentence. Our FW colleague, Christoph Creuss, with whom I disagree very
greatly on several economics issues, who has learned English as a Swiss
(in a Swiss state school as he reminds us!), can write English better
than most English people -- more than 80% of them, I suggest, and equal
to most of the remainder. Not only are his sentences constructed properly
but each follows the other in a logical straightforward way that doesn't
cause me to re-read each paragraph twice or thrice over to try and
understand just what the writer is driving at.
I saw a fascinating and very moving Channel 4 programme last night on
feral children which is very apposite to what we are discussing and I am
hoping to write a little about this in a  separate posting. It very
much has to do with brain development in the earliest months and years of
the child (for which the teachers and the education authorities are not
directly to blame) -- and this is the direction from which I approach
educational matters.
I was bitten by the Skinnerian bug when I was a young man. In fact, I
became so interested in Skinner's researches that I left chemistry for a
couple of years and became the first professional writer of learning
programmes in England. But that experience -- and the subsequent failure
of programmed learning (except for the very highly motivated) -- taught
me that one should not be carried away by ideologies, especially in
education, and this has caused me to become very suspicious of the
succession of theories that we have seen in the educationalists' world in
the last 30 years. It has only been the advent of basic science in the
subject in only the last 10 years or so -- mainly from the various
neurosciences -- which is now bringing some order and sense to the
proceedings.
The neurosciences are also, at last, beginning to marry the respective
contributions of environment and genetics in the overall scheme of
things. So I will end here with the uncomfortable thought that the 80-odd
brain genes that we possess and which the chimp doesn't, and the various
(almost infinite) semi-random combinations they make at the point of
fertilisation also contribute to the matter. (This is not to mention the
1,000 plus genes that we share with chimps and which are also involved in
brain development in the foetus.) And, in an age where technology and an
understanding of science is becoming basic to our civilisation, this
genetic matter, too, is important and may be contributing to
divisiveness.
Keith 
  
At 15:31 15/12/2003 -0500, you wrote:
Hi
Keith and Harry,
 
With the utmost respect for the both of
you, I submit the following.  I consider my working class roots to
be as impeccable as yours.  Like you, I share a strong work ethic,
an innate survival instinct, and a passion for a society better than the
one into which I was born.
 
My father came to Canada as child
labour, as a Barnardo home boy, from England.  Until he was 16 he
was effectively free farm labour, separated from his biological family in
Cambridgeshire, and marginalized by the Canadian family whom he
served.  He suffered emotional and physical abuse, was not allowed
to eat with them, and was denied an education beyond the second

Re: FULL OF ADMIRATION (was RE: Slightly extended (was Re: [Futurework] David Ricardo, Cavema n Trade vs. Modern Trade

2003-12-15 Thread Robert E. Bowd



Hi Keith and Harry,
 
With the utmost respect for the both of you, I 
submit the following.  I consider my working class roots to be 
as impeccable as yours.  Like you, I share a strong work ethic, an 
innate survival instinct, and a passion for a society better than the one into 
which I was born.
 
My father came to Canada as child labour, as a 
Barnardo home boy, from England.  Until he was 16 he was effectively free 
farm labour, separated from his biological family in Cambridgeshire, 
and marginalized by the Canadian family whom he served.  He suffered 
emotional and physical abuse, was not allowed to eat with them, and was 
denied an education beyond the second grade.  Shame characterized his life 
as he wandered the back streets, away from a public gaze, and tended the 
gardens of the rich, in my hometown.  My mother was crippled by polio, from 
the time she was 4 years old.  She had many side illnesses in pre-Medicare 
Canada.  I was raised in poverty and knew about hunger and class 
marginalization as a child and bear that psychological imprint as an 
adult.
 
The social capital of the Welfare State, after 
World War 11, and the ideology of equal opportunity, allowed me to get an 
education.  It was the luck of context, however, not any special merit on 
my part.  I suspect it is similar with the two of you, 
respectively.  In a family of five, I am the only one who finished high 
school and went on to university education.  There are many, many bright 
working class youth as capable as I am, and as you are.  However, current 
educational reforms are limiting the kinds of opportunities we were able to 
partake of.  
 
I became a teacher and went many, many rounds, with 
a class stratified school system, on behalf of my working class 
students.  As an educational researcher, my only interest has been in what 
happens to working class children in essentially middle class schools.  My 
current project, "Whose Standards?: Performance Standards, Globalization, and 
the Restructuring of School Knowledge" is part of my attempt to understand what 
is happening to working class kids under the current school reforms in relation 
to the paradigm shift in the way kid's achievment and teacher accountability is 
benchmarked using high stakes testing.  The project has been supported by 
SSHRC funding and several scholarships.  I have had lots of contact with 
powerful and wealthy people.  I have been a political activist and 
president of the riding association of a former Ontario Finance Minister.  
But who cares?  I don't think it has anything to do with what I contribute 
to this list.  Rightly, or wrongly, I see this list as a place for me to 
learn from some very smart people, exchange views, and get information, a lot of 
which I keep for use in my work.
 
My view is that the working class has largely been 
written off in the current neoliberal reforms, despite the rhetoric of 
equity.  Failure rates and drop out rates are increasing.  The savage 
inequalities that have injured the working class and minorities still 
exist.
 
I can assure you that to imply that there is a 
correlation between being working class and supporting private education is 
absolutely spurious.  I worked for several years on large scale surveys of 
public attitudes towards education in Ontario and we found no evidence that 
working class respondents, in significant numbers, were supportive of this kind 
of change.  In fact, most working class activists see private education as 
a threat to working class opportunity.  
 
Studies of working class resistance indicate that 
some working class youth internalize the meritocratic myths of middle class 
schooling and thrive within them.  Paul Willis's classic study of working 
class resistance called such kids "ear'oles."  But many resist the class 
cultural agenda, that often includes the belittlement of working class work 
and working class identities and engage in cultural resistance.  You 
and Harry may well be examples of the former, but I am an example of the 
latter.  High school was a cultural dead space, for me.  You 
support private education.  I differ and support public education.  
Vouchers and charter schools do not help working class kids.
 
The research is pretty clear that the best 
predictor of success, in schooling, is the neighborhood you live in.  
Taking only the matter of reading scores, the higher your parent's 
socio-economic status, the higher your reading level.  High stakes testing 
is producing similar correlations.
 
No personal disrespect is intended towards either 
you, Keith, or Harry, and I will state unequivocally my respect for you 
both.  If I have written anything that has offended you, I offer my most 
deepfelt apologies for doing so.
 
Respectfully submitted, 
Bob
 
Keith wrote:
 
It is strange, is it not, that you and I, both working class, and who know 
what it's all about at every level of society from top to bottom, should be the 
ones (the on