Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 8:15 PM, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > On 161229-05:13-0500, Tom H wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, lee wrote: >> > Neil Bothwick writes: >> There are two ways to ensure that you always have the

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 8:15 PM, Miroslav Rovis wrote: > > Thanks again to our developers who keep to the matchless Unix tradition, > and allow such great choice in Gentoo (also to the other, poetterware > side, as in choice, if you will)! > Well, the intent is to

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On 161229-05:13-0500, Tom H wrote: > On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, lee wrote: > > Neil Bothwick writes: > >> > There are two ways to ensure that you always have the kernel's names: > > 1) Add "net.ifnames=0" to the kernel cmdline I use that all the time.

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 1:53 PM, lee wrote: > Neil Bothwick writes: >> >> There is nothing wrong with wanting things to work as you do, but it >> requires input to do so. It you have to start editing files to make >> it work properly, there is little point

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 3:01 PM, lee wrote: > Tom H writes: >> AFAIK, you have three possibilities. >> >> 1) If you're renaming a NIC via its MAC address, you have to edit the >> config file thatlinks the NIC's names and its MAC address. >> >> 2) If you're

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 1:35 PM, lee wrote: > Tom H writes: >> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 9:07 PM, lee wrote: >>> >>> How is that more reliable? >> >> It's more reliable than using the kernel's names because the names >> won't change UNLESS

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 3:48 AM, Jorge Almeida wrote: > On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 12:39 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: >> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 02:26:05 -0500, Tom H wrote: >>> >>> It's the best thing that the systemd developers have produced! >> >> Except they

Re: mailer "module" for 'eselect news' (Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No)

On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 17:20:50 +0100, lee wrote: > > #!/bin/sh > > > > if [ $( eselect news count new ) != "0" ]; then > >eselect news list | mail y...@wherever.you.are > >fi > > Thanks! To actually read the news as email, I wrote this: > > #!/usr/bin/perl [massive snip] What does

mailer "module" for 'eselect news' (Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No)

Neil Bothwick writes: > On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 20:21:19 +0100, lee wrote: > >> > Even more reasonable: >> > >> > eselect news read new >> > >> > will only come up with the latest as yet unread news, rather than a >> > long list which could have accumulated over the years. >>

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On 2016-12-27 21:31, Neil Bothwick wrote: Put this script in /etc/portage/postsync.d and make it executable #!/bin/sh if [ $( eselect news count new ) != "0" ]; then eselect news list | mail y...@wherever.you.are fi Nice hint, really. I did a similar thing in my emerge wrapper script,

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 19:53:47 +0100, lee wrote: > > I would imagine because it cannot be used without some initial > > configuration. The default provides the greatest reliability out of > > the box, at the expense of less readable (which is not the same as > > unrecognisable, a value judgement

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 20:21:19 +0100, lee wrote: > > Even more reasonable: > > > > eselect news read new > > > > will only come up with the latest as yet unread news, rather than a > > long list which could have accumulated over the years. > > It seems to be clearing out the list

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tuesday 27 Dec 2016 20:21:19 lee wrote: > Mick writes: > > On Tuesday 27 Dec 2016 08:21:53 lee wrote: > >> Rich Freeman writes: > >> > On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 5:47 PM, lee wrote: > >> >> Yes, and that doesn't show me news before

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Alan McKinnon writes: > On 27/12/2016 01:02, lee wrote: >> Alan McKinnon writes: >> >>> On 26/12/2016 21:42, lee wrote: Well, I guess you haven't realised yet that reality doesn't exist. Bubbles are a self-imposed limit for those who

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Neil Bothwick writes: > On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 21:01:22 +0100, lee wrote: > >> > AFAIK, you have three possibilities. >> > >> > 1) If you're renaming a NIC via its MAC address, you have to edit the >> > config file thatlinks the NIC's names and its MAC address. >> > >> > 2) If

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Mick writes: > On Tuesday 27 Dec 2016 08:21:53 lee wrote: >> Rich Freeman writes: >> > On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 5:47 PM, lee wrote: >> >> Yes, and that doesn't show me news before I sync, or does it? >> > >> > Correct. >> > >> >

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 21:01:22 +0100, lee wrote: > > AFAIK, you have three possibilities. > > > > 1) If you're renaming a NIC via its MAC address, you have to edit the > > config file thatlinks the NIC's names and its MAC address. > > > > 2) If you're using udev's predictable names, the NIC'll have

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tuesday 27 Dec 2016 08:21:53 lee wrote: > Rich Freeman writes: > > On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 5:47 PM, lee wrote: > >> Yes, and that doesn't show me news before I sync, or does it? > > > > Correct. > > > > The order to do this in is: > > > > Sync > > Read

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On 27/12/2016 01:02, lee wrote: > Alan McKinnon writes: > >> On 26/12/2016 21:42, lee wrote: >>> Well, I guess you haven't realised yet that reality doesn't exist. >>> Bubbles are a self-imposed limit for those who believe in reality. >>> You probably hit that wall and

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Alan McKinnon writes: > On 26/12/2016 20:35, lee wrote: >> Tom H writes: >> >>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 9:07 PM, lee wrote: Tom H writes: > On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Daniel Frey

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Rich Freeman writes: > On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 5:47 PM, lee wrote: >> >> Yes, and that doesn't show me news before I sync, or does it? >> > > Correct. > > The order to do this in is: > > Sync > Read news. > Apply updates. sounds reasonable > Syncing doesn't

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 5:47 PM, lee wrote: > > Yes, and that doesn't show me news before I sync, or does it? > Correct. The order to do this in is: Sync Read news. Apply updates. Syncing doesn't affect anything other than /usr/portage (or wherever you're keeping it). --

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Alan McKinnon writes: > On 26/12/2016 20:24, lee wrote: >> Rich Freeman writes: >> >>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 8:52 PM, lee wrote: I didn't see portage or anything else give me any instructions or warnings about this.

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Alan McKinnon writes: > On 26/12/2016 21:42, lee wrote: >> Well, I guess you haven't realised yet that reality doesn't exist. >> Bubbles are a self-imposed limit for those who believe in reality. >> You probably hit that wall and now try hard to remain confined. >> >>

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

lee wrote: > Dale writes: > >> lee wrote: >>> Dale writes: >>> lee wrote: >>> Well, I guess you haven't realised yet that reality doesn't exist. >>> Bubbles are a self-imposed limit for those who believe in reality. >>> You probably hit that

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On 26/12/2016 20:35, lee wrote: > Tom H writes: > >> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 9:07 PM, lee wrote: >>> Tom H writes: On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Daniel Frey wrote: > > It is even more frustrating that

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Dale writes: > lee wrote: >> Dale writes: >> >>> lee wrote: Dale writes: > lee wrote: >> Dale writes: >> >>> lee wrote: Dale writes:

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On 26/12/2016 21:42, lee wrote: > Well, I guess you haven't realised yet that reality doesn't exist. > Bubbles are a self-imposed limit for those who believe in reality. > You probably hit that wall and now try hard to remain confined. > > Unfortunately, this won't make sense to you until you

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On 26/12/2016 20:24, lee wrote: > Rich Freeman writes: > >> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 8:52 PM, lee wrote: >>> >>> I didn't see portage or anything else give me any instructions or >>> warnings about this. The names just suddenly changed, and that screwed >>>

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

lee wrote: > Dale writes: > >> lee wrote: >>> Dale writes: >>> lee wrote: > Dale writes: > >> lee wrote: >>> Dale writes: >>> >>> I didn't go look at boards I had around here.

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Dale writes: > lee wrote: >> Dale writes: >> >>> lee wrote: Dale writes: > lee wrote: >> Dale writes: >> >> I didn't go look at boards I had around here. I went to a major >>

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Tom H writes: > On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 9:07 PM, lee wrote: >> Tom H writes: >>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Daniel Frey wrote: It is even more frustrating that these so-called predictable network

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Rich Freeman writes: > On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 8:52 PM, lee wrote: >> >> I didn't see portage or anything else give me any instructions or >> warnings about this. The names just suddenly changed, and that screwed >> things up. >> > >

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Tom H writes: > On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 8:57 PM, lee wrote: >> Tom H writes: > > >>> [1] There's no need to learn/use the udev rules syntax. I use the >>> following in "/etc/systemd/network/" on a Debian 8 system with >>>

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 7:12:14 PM EST Alan McKinnon wrote: > On 20/12/2016 19:04, Tanstaafl wrote: > > On 12/19/2016 1:15 PM, lee wrote: > >> "Walter Dnes" writes: > >>> Similarly, the vast majority of home users have a machine with one > >>>

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 10:50:53 -0500, Tom H wrote: > >> I'm also a heretic who uses the systemd bootloader no matter what > >> pid1 is in charge. > >> > >> It's the best thing that the systemd developers have produced! > > > > Except they didn't produce it. They assimilated gummiboot, which I was

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

lee wrote: > Dale writes: > >> lee wrote: >>> Dale writes: >>> lee wrote: > Dale writes: > > I didn't go look at boards I had around here. I went to a major > computer supplier, newegg, and looked at what

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Neil Bothwick writes: > On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 02:52:54 +0100, lee wrote: > >> >> I only know what the names are when I can look them up when the >> >> computer is running. I don't call that "predictable". > > That's because you are using a different definition of predictable

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Alan McKinnon writes: > On 24/12/2016 03:52, lee wrote: >> Neil Bothwick writes: >> >>> On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 04:15:50 +0100, lee wrote: >>> > There are no config files to edit with the predictable names, the > names are created from the

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Dale writes: > lee wrote: >> Dale writes: >> >>> lee wrote: Dale writes: I didn't go look at boards I had around here. I went to a major computer supplier, newegg, and looked at what they had. Go back and

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 8:52 PM, lee wrote: > > I didn't see portage or anything else give me any instructions or > warnings about this. The names just suddenly changed, and that screwed > things up. > https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2013-03-29-udev-upgrade.html

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 3:39 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 02:26:05 -0500, Tom H wrote: >>> >>> I don't use grub on UEFI systems, but I use the systemd bootloader, >>> so I thought I'd keep quiet about that ;-) >> >> I'm also a heretic who uses the systemd

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 9:07 PM, lee wrote: > Tom H writes: >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Daniel Frey wrote: >>> >>> It is even more frustrating that these so-called predictable network >>> names actually can change on a reboot,

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 8:57 PM, lee wrote: > Tom H writes: >> [1] There's no need to learn/use the udev rules syntax. I use the >> following in "/etc/systemd/network/" on a Debian 8 system with >> sysvinit-as-pid1: >> >> [Match] >>

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 02:52:54 +0100, lee wrote: > >> I only know what the names are when I can look them up when the > >> computer is running. I don't call that "predictable". That's because you are using a different definition of predictable from that intended. > > > > If they are

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On 24/12/2016 03:52, lee wrote: > Neil Bothwick writes: > >> On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 04:15:50 +0100, lee wrote: >> There are no config files to edit with the predictable names, the names are created from the physical location of the port. That's why they are

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

lee wrote: > Dale writes: > >> lee wrote: >>> Dale writes: >>> >>> I didn't go look at boards I had around here. I went to a major >>> computer supplier, newegg, and looked at what they had. Go back and >>> read again what I did and maybe read it

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Original message From: lee <l...@yagibdah.de> Date: 24/12/2016 03:07 (GMT+01:00) To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No Tom H <tomh0...@gmail.com> writes: > On Mon

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Neil Bothwick writes: > On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 04:15:50 +0100, lee wrote: > >> > There are no config files to edit with the predictable names, the >> > names are created from the physical location of the port. That's why >> > they are called predictable, >> >> I only know

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Dale writes: > lee wrote: >> Dale writes: >> >> I didn't go look at boards I had around here. I went to a major >> computer supplier, newegg, and looked at what they had. Go back and >> read again what I did and maybe read it more carefully. >> >>

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Tom H writes: > On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Daniel Frey wrote: >> >> It is even more frustrating that these so-called predictable network >> names actually can change on a reboot, it's happened to me more than >> once when multiple network cards are

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Tom H writes: > On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 3:56 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: >> On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 04:15:50 +0100, lee wrote: >>> >>> The perceived advantage lies in being able to refer to network ports >>> in a more reliable way, and I don't see how using

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 12:39 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 02:26:05 -0500, Tom H wrote: > >> >> It's the best thing that the systemd developers have produced! > > Except they didn't produce it. They assimilated gummiboot, which I was > already using, into

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 02:26:05 -0500, Tom H wrote: > > I don't use grub on UEFI systems, but I use the systemd bootloader, > > so I thought I'd keep quiet about that ;-) > > I'm also a heretic who uses the systemd bootloader no matter what pid1 > is in charge. > > It's the best thing that the

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 10:40 AM, Daniel Frey wrote: > On 12/21/2016 10:53 PM, Tom H wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 3:35 PM, Daniel Frey wrote: >>> >>> It could be I found a bug. After a reboot it went from the normal >>> enp0s1 (or whatever) to

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 7:38 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: > > I don't use grub on UEFI systems, but I use the systemd bootloader, so I > thought I'd keep quiet about that ;-) I'm also a heretic who uses the systemd bootloader no matter what pid1 is in charge. It's the best thing

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On 12/21/2016 10:53 PM, Tom H wrote: > On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 3:35 PM, Daniel Frey wrote: >> On 12/19/2016 01:09 PM, Andrej Rode wrote: >>> >>> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ >> >> It could be I found a bug. After a reboot

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 05:27:03 -0500, Tom H wrote: > > You forgot /etc/default/grub ;-) > > Indeed :) > > But I was going with the idea of using udev to rename NICs rather than > reverting to kernel names. > > I hope that you're ready to duck because someone might say "Linux is > about choice"

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 5:14 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 04:52:41 -0500, Tom H wrote: > >> All of this whining about predictable NIC names would be more or less >> OK if there wasn't an easy way to override them in >> "/{lib,etc}/systemd/network/" (even on a

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 04:52:41 -0500, Tom H wrote: > All of this whining about predictable NIC names would be more or less > OK if there wasn't an easy way to override them in > "/{lib,etc}/systemd/network/" (even on a non-systemd system, see [1]) > or in "/etc/udev/rules.d/"! You forgot

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 3:56 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 04:15:50 +0100, lee wrote: >> >> The perceived advantage lies in being able to refer to network ports >> in a more reliable way, and I don't see how using unrecognisable >> names instead of

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 05:19:35PM -0800, Daniel Campbell wrote > On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 07:53:51AM -0500, Rich Freeman wrote: > > > How do you think we ended up with eudev? > > I assume we ended up with eudev because upstream decided that > they were going back on their promise that udev would

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 04:15:50 +0100, lee wrote: > > There are no config files to edit with the predictable names, the > > names are created from the physical location of the port. That's why > > they are called predictable, > > I only know what the names are when I can look them up when the

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 5:04 PM, lee wrote: > Andrej Rode writes: >> >>> Or can you explain how unrecognisable names make things easier? >> >> Yeah they make life easier. From your talk you never had a problem >> with eth<0,10> switching names after boot.

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 3:35 PM, Daniel Frey wrote: > On 12/19/2016 01:09 PM, Andrej Rode wrote: >> >> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ > > It could be I found a bug. After a reboot it went from the normal > enp0s1 (or

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Heiko Baums wrote: >> >> You don't need to be convinced. It's sufficient that I know systemd >> pretty well from the beginning when the Poettering fanboys of Arch

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:21 AM, Heiko Baums wrote: > Am 20.12.2016 um 05:23 schrieb Andrej Rode: >> >> Yeah they make life easier. From your talk you never had a problem >> with eth<0,10> switching names after boot. Everyone who had them >> appreciates predictable network

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Daniel Frey wrote: > > It is even more frustrating that these so-called predictable network > names actually can change on a reboot, it's happened to me more than > once when multiple network cards are detected in a different order. >From Kay

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Marc Joliet wrote: > When people compare systemd unit files to init scripts, they usually > mean *raw* (LSB?) sysvinit scripts (as IIUC Debian use{s,d}), with all > of their ridiculous amounts of boilerplate. The latest Debian init.d skeleton uses

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Neil Bothwick writes: > On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 22:48:29 +0100, lee wrote: > >> > You can't switch any two names because the udev rules are run singly, >> > so at one point you will be trying to rename an interface with a name >> > that is already in use. >> >> I mean more

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 07:56:29PM +0100, Heiko Baums wrote: > Am 21.12.2016 um 14:03 schrieb Rich Freeman: > > I don't agree that you are "forced" > > to use systemd. Maybe you might be forced to use a different browser > > or fork your browser or patch it or stick with an old version and > >

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 07:53:51AM -0500, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 10:49 PM, Daniel Campbell wrote: > > On 12/20/2016 06:33 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > >> We don't have some > >> committee on high pick a winner and tell all the maintainers that they > >> all

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 22:48:29 +0100, lee wrote: > > You can't switch any two names because the udev rules are run singly, > > so at one point you will be trying to rename an interface with a name > > that is already in use. > > I mean more like renaming them on the fly --- or by having a >

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

lee wrote: > Dale writes: > > I didn't go look at boards I had around here. I went to a major > computer supplier, newegg, and looked at what they had. Go back and > read again what I did and maybe read it more carefully. > > Might I also add, it's more than just me that

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Neil Bothwick writes: > On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 23:11:08 +0100, lee wrote: > >> >> But you already heard of udev rules? I guess I mentioned them >> >> already. They are not so hard to write and they only need to be >> >> written once. >> > >> > It's too late by then, if eth0

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Dale writes: > lee wrote: >> Dale writes: >> >>> lee wrote: Dale writes: > lee wrote: >> Daniel Frey writes: >> >>> On 12/19/2016 10:15 AM, lee wrote: "Walter Dnes"

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Am 21.12.2016 um 20:31 schrieb Rich Freeman: > OpenSource has nothing to do with whether something costs money. Not > even RMS or ESR would agree with "For OpenSource you don't need to > pay." Ok, now we're getting a little bit closer again. All the rest... I have neither time nor energy to

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Heiko Baums wrote: > > And this again. You know the difference between OpenSource and ClosedSource? > > You pay for ClosedSource. For OpenSource you don't need to pay. But I > have neither time nor energy to explain you the philosophy

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Am 21.12.2016 um 15:28 schrieb Rich Freeman: > udev and systemd operate based on text configuration files that are > declarative in nature. Seldom laughed as much. Heiko Baums

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Am 21.12.2016 um 14:03 schrieb Rich Freeman: > I don't agree that you are "forced" > to use systemd. Maybe you might be forced to use a different browser > or fork your browser or patch it or stick with an old version and > backport security fixes if you want to use it without systemd some > day.

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On 12/21/2016 08:28 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Corbin Bird wrote: >> The old manual method of configuration is extremely flexible, you can >> get the "who-knows-where-it-came-from-component" to work. The new >> "automagic" of udev / systemd

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Corbin Bird wrote: > > The old manual method of configuration is extremely flexible, you can > get the "who-knows-where-it-came-from-component" to work. The new > "automagic" of udev / systemd forget it. At least with script based >

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On 12/21/2016 06:09 AM, k...@aspodata.se wrote: > Regarding the controversy about systemd etc. > > The problem isn't that systemd is available, or that there exist a > company named Red Had or that there exist a developer named Lennart > Poettering that develops programs. > > The problem is that

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 7:09 AM, wrote: > > The problem is that an ever increasing amount of programs list systemd > or some of its libs as a depenancy. So it is getting harder and harder > to opt out. > > The situation is similar to the one with udev and variants. Some >

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 7:36 AM, Tanstaafl wrote: > On 12/20/2016 9:33 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>> systemd is primarily a political project, not a technical one. > >> What

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 10:49 PM, Daniel Campbell wrote: > On 12/20/2016 06:33 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: >> We don't have some >> committee on high pick a winner and tell all the maintainers that they >> all have to move from supporting x to supporting y. > > Fair points across the

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On 12/20/2016 9:33 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >> systemd is primarily a political project, not a technical one. > What political benefit do I gain from using and maintaining systemd? Interesting that you

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Regarding the controversy about systemd etc. The problem isn't that systemd is available, or that there exist a company named Red Had or that there exist a developer named Lennart Poettering that develops programs. The problem is that an ever increasing amount of programs list systemd or some

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Neil Bothwick: > On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 23:11:08 +0100, lee wrote: > > >> But you already heard of udev rules? I guess I mentioned them > > >> already. They are not so hard to write and they only need to be > > >> written once. > > > It's too late by then, if eth0 and eth1 already exist, you cannot

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On 12/20/2016 06:33 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > We don't have some > committee on high pick a winner and tell all the maintainers that they > all have to move from supporting x to supporting y. Fair points across the board but this stood out to me. We *do* have groups that, on some subset of the

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > As a reference point, just before I start, I'm a contributor to Emacs, > both new stuff and bug fixing, in both C and Lisp, and (occasionally) I > write documentation. ;-) > Great. I don't use any of that stuff. How would

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 23:11:08 +0100, lee wrote: > >> But you already heard of udev rules? I guess I mentioned them > >> already. They are not so hard to write and they only need to be > >> written once. > > > > It's too late by then, if eth0 and eth1 already exist, you cannot > > switch them

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

lee wrote: > Dale writes: > >> lee wrote: >>> Dale writes: >>> lee wrote: > Daniel Frey writes: > >> On 12/19/2016 10:15 AM, lee wrote: >>> "Walter Dnes" writes: >>>

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Hello Rich, and Gentoo. As a reference point, just before I start, I'm a contributor to Emacs, both new stuff and bug fixing, in both C and Lisp, and (occasionally) I write documentation. ;-) On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 12:57:02PM -0500, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 12:44 PM, Heiko

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Dale writes: > lee wrote: >> Dale writes: >> >>> lee wrote: Daniel Frey writes: > On 12/19/2016 10:15 AM, lee wrote: >> "Walter Dnes" writes: >> >>> Similarly, the vast majority

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Neil Bothwick writes: > On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 19:22:44 +0100, Heiko Baums wrote: > >> > eth0 is the first card found by software, and not always the one you >> > think it is. >> >> But you already heard of udev rules? I guess I mentioned them already. >> They are not so hard

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

Andrej Rode writes: > Why >> Or can you explain how unrecognisable names make things easier? > > Yeah they make life easier. From your talk you never had a problem with > eth<0,10> switching names after boot. Everyone who had them appreciates > predictable network interfaces.

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 4:53 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: > > Yes, the predictable names are pointless on a single-NIC system, which is > why there exist simple methods to switch back to the old way. > Either that, or just use a wildcard. I just stick e* in my network

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 19:22:44 +0100, Heiko Baums wrote: > > eth0 is the first card found by software, and not always the one you > > think it is. > > But you already heard of udev rules? I guess I mentioned them already. > They are not so hard to write and they only need to be written once.

Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 18:50:38 +0100, Heiko Baums wrote: > > Maybe there are different opinions, but what is cryptic on - as a > > typical one - enp3s0?: > > e - ethernet > > n - network > > p - pci (port) ... > > 3 - ... 3 > > s - slot ... > > 0 - ... 0 > > Think about that yourself again and

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