Re: IBM complementary tools
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 01/10/2008 at 10:44 AM, Gerhard Postpischil [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Or that Marty insisted on running Roscoe with TIME=1440, Cramer, not Goetz. (Marty dared Shmuel/Seymour to do something about it No, he just said that they'd be done before I had the code in place to enforce it. You may be thinking of his reaction to the volsers on the packs I initialized for him ;-) -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM complementary tools
Gerhardf Postpischil of the IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 01/09/2008 02:41:34 PM: Anton Britz wrote: Is anybody using these tools and is this not unfair business practice.. Giving away software in order to KILL other software vendors ? Back in the sixties American Management Systems sued IBM for giving away free software, mainly CRBE, thus undercutting sales of ROSCOE. AMS got a Pyrrhic victory, as IBM used this as an excuse to start charging for software that otherwise would have been free. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, VT Here is an article by the founder of ADR, the company that sued IBM. http://www.softwarehistory.org/history/Goetz1.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM complementary tools
John P Kalinich wrote: Here is an article by the founder of ADR, the company that sued IBM. http://www.softwarehistory.org/history/Goetz1.html You're correct - I was having a senior moment, thinking ADR, but writing AMS (perhaps because I had just exchanged mail related to AMS a bit earlier). Statements be Marty Goetz need to be taken with a large dose of salt. He could probably excuse his lack of mention of the 709x version of Autoflow due to lack of space, but it was my first big project at ADR, and I take umbrage at the omission. Mike Guzik and I did all the work (Mike did the lexical analyzer and layout; I did the graphical output [SC-4020, etc.]). Originally this was a four person project, but two dropped out, and Mike and I finished two months early. What Marty doesn't mention is that their best selling Librarian was developed despite his objections; by then Mike and I were carrying around trays of cards, and Mike decided there had to be a better way, and drew up preliminary specs on what he wanted. Marty said no, and Mike threatened to resign; as a compromise he got limited funds, but at the end of six months they already had enough beta testers to pay for it several times over, so Marty saw the light and continued development. Or that Marty insisted on running Roscoe with TIME=1440, which back then avoided any and all SMF exits (Marty dared Shmuel/Seymour to do something about it - he went to the reader/interpreter fiche, found two 1440 constants, and zapped them to 1439); or that they got it working for 2741s only by applying BTAM zaps that prevented 2740s from working on the same system. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, VT -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM complementary tools
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:06:41 +0900, Timothy Sipples [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... For the record, Session Manager for z/OS supports TN3270E. It's the much older Tivoli Netview Access Services (NVAS) product that doesn't. ... I'll take your word on the Tn3270E support, but I think your comment about NVAS is off the mark. I've never personally used NVAS, but as far as I know it never contained a Tn3270 server so Tn3270 vs Tn3270E does not apply to it. Pat O'Keefe -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM complementary tools
I would like to see a free IBM Session Manager and a Workload Simulator. Giving away software isn't usually deemed to be UNFAIR. Trying to kill off your competition is STANDARD business practice. Now if they do both unequally, such as offer you the session manager but not the workload simulator because you are trying to buy a session manager from compeditor X. And then offer me the workload simulator but not the session mamanger because we have contacted compeditor Y about their workload simulator. That is UNFAIR. /Tom Kern On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 11:51:52 -0600, Anton Britz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, In Kathy Tyrrell's presentation at Share... Session Number 1020 on the 13 of of August 2007, she mentions the folloiwng complementary tools from IBM: - CICS BAC ( Cemt from batch ) - IBM session manager (Vtam and Tcp/Ip session manager ) - Workload simulator ( Application stress and regression testing) - Vsam transparency ( Helps them sell DB2) Question : Is anybody using these tools and is this not unfair business practice.. Giving away software in order to KILL other software vendors ? Anton -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM complementary tools
I think you are confusing complementary (serving to fill out or complete) with complimentary (given free). Regards, Ira In a message dated 1/9/2008 11:52:10 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, In Kathy Tyrrell's presentation at Share... Session Number 1020 on the 13 of of August 2007, she mentions the folloiwng complementary tools from IBM: - CICS BAC ( Cemt from batch ) - IBM session manager (Vtam and Tcp/Ip session manager ) - Workload simulator ( Application stress and regression testing) - Vsam transparency ( Helps them sell DB2) Question : Is anybody using these tools and is this not unfair business practice.. Giving away software in order to KILL other software vendors ? Anton -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM complementary tools
Anton Britz wrote: Is anybody using these tools and is this not unfair business practice.. Giving away software in order to KILL other software vendors ? Back in the sixties American Management Systems sued IBM for giving away free software, mainly CRBE, thus undercutting sales of ROSCOE. AMS got a Pyrrhic victory, as IBM used this as an excuse to start charging for software that otherwise would have been free. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, VT -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM complementary tools
On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:33:41 EST, Ira Broussard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you are confusing complementary (serving to fill out or complete) with complimentary (given free). ... And being the world's worst speller, I would have made the same mistake. If I were cynical I might even think the name of the session was intended to be misinterpreted. We looked at the session manager product a year or 2 ago. Hopefully the product has been improved since then. And hopefully sales people currently pushing it understand it better than the ones presenting the product to us. They perhaps knew something about the session manager part; they knew *nothing* about the Tn3270 server part. They had no idea that their lack of support for Tn3270E implied that their Tn3270 server was about 10 years out of date. Considering that IBM already has (IMO) a good Tn3270(E) server and 2 pretty good session managers, trying to foist this product off rather than implementing the support in their existing products was more of an insult than a compliment. (And I'm not really so sure that eliminating that intermediate VTAM step between the Tn3270 server and the session manager is worth much effort in the first place.) Hopefully the other complementary tools have more going for them. Pat O'Keefe -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM complementary tools
On Jan 9, 2008, at 3:01 PM, Patrick O'Keefe wrote: - SNIP- And being the world's worst speller, I would have made the same mistake. If I were cynical I might even think the name of the session was intended to be misinterpreted. We looked at the session manager product a year or 2 ago. Hopefully the product has been improved since then. And hopefully sales people currently pushing it understand it better than the ones presenting the product to us. They perhaps knew something about the session manager part; they knew *nothing* about the Tn3270 server part. They had no idea that their lack of support for Tn3270E implied that their Tn3270 server was about 10 years out of date. Considering that IBM already has (IMO) a good Tn3270(E) server and 2 pretty good session managers, trying to foist this product off rather than implementing the support in their existing products was more of an insult than a compliment. (And I'm not really so sure that eliminating that intermediate VTAM step between the Tn3270 server and the session manager is worth much effort in the first place.) Hopefully the other complementary tools have more going for them. Pat O'Keefe Patrick: We looked at it when it first came out (20 or 30 years ago). We had users clamoring for hardcopy of their TSO sessions for reports etc. All we had were 3270's so a user in frustration (long story deleted) get one of our vendors to support a local 2741. This was with TCAM (at the time) and we had no end of problems we finally told the user we would not support the machine anymore. The user went back to NCSS (?/some time sharing service) to get hardcopy. We tried to interest the user(s) in session manager just for HC. They did not like it for various reasons. They were remote so I never really got a clear reason as to why, although I *THINK* it was to complex. I had played around with in on PALO Alto system once or twice and it was OK nothing to get excited about though. I still recommended it for people who needed hardcopy though. I am trying to remember if it first came out as a FDP or a PP. My memory is not there on this one. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM complementary tools
The products mentioned: CICS Batch Application Control http://www-306.ibm.com/software/htp/cics/bac/ Session Manager for z/OS http://www-306.ibm.com/software/htp/cics/smanag/ Workload Simulator for z/OS http://www-306.ibm.com/software/awdtools/workloadsimulator/ CICS VSAM Transparency http://www-306.ibm.com/software/htp/cics/vt/ are all licensed products with a one-time charge and (optional) annual subscription and support. They are not free. For the record, Session Manager for z/OS supports TN3270E. It's the much older Tivoli Netview Access Services (NVAS) product that doesn't. However, there is a free trial download for CICS Batch Application Control and some other CICS tools here: http://www-306.ibm.com/software/os/systemz/trials/cicstools/ Workload Simulator and some other tools are available for a test drive here: http://zserveros.dfw.ibm.com/ - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
