Re: Yocto and Buildroot (was Re: l4-hackers Digest, Vol 246, Issue 9)

2025-05-19 Thread Paul Boddie 
On Monday, 19 May 2025 17:47:04 CEST Torsten Wierschin wrote:
> 
> For a detailed intro see https://bootlin.com/training/yocto/ It can be
> used to fetch, configure, build, install and boot every part of an
> embedded system that contains *open source* toolchain, bootloader,
> kernel, filesystem, startup system, userspace etc.

I am aware of what Yocto is, but I was hoping for some more detail. However, I 
understand that it might be an unreasonable demand on your time to get into 
specific details, and I was only really making a casual enquiry.

When I previously used the OpenWrt distribution for the Ben NanoNote, which 
used comparable technology (as do many distribution building systems), the 
process involved wrapping up the different components so that the source code 
is obtained, verified, unpacked, patched (an important aspect), built and 
installed.

I can envisage the different L4Re components being similarly wrapped up and 
the dependency declarations (in Control files) being converted into the 
appropriate form for Yocto. So, the DEPENDS definition in Yocto recipes would 
express the Requires definition in L4Re's Control files.

One concern I might have is how the Makefile-based system used by L4Re would 
be used, given that it invokes all sorts of tasks that also try and organise 
the broader build process, satisfy dependencies, and so on. It seems to me 
that without simplifying the existing use of make, there might be a fair 
amount of duplication of work, limiting the benefits of Yocto and increasing 
the maintenance burden.

> Unfortunately, this doesn't happen easily and the initial learning
> curve is steep but a lot of chip manufacturers are moving or have
> already moved in this direction providing customized yocto bsp layers
> (for Linux). The kernel is really only (but important) part of the
> game.

Yes, having Linux Foundation support made its adoption rather more likely 
amongst many of the ecosystem participants.

Thanks for referencing the Bootlin materials which are quite helpful!

Paul


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Re: Yocto and Buildroot (was Re: l4-hackers Digest, Vol 246, Issue 9)

2025-05-19 Thread Torsten Wierschin 
> How are you using Yocto with L4Re?

By writing layers and recipes in yocto.

This is the short answer, since yocto is basically independent from Linux.

For a detailed intro see https://bootlin.com/training/yocto/ It can be
used to fetch, configure, build, install and boot every part of an
embedded system that contains *open source* toolchain, bootloader,
kernel, filesystem, startup system, userspace etc.

Unfortunately, this doesn't happen easily and the initial learning
curve is steep but a lot of chip manufacturers are moving or have
already moved in this direction providing customized yocto bsp layers
(for Linux). The kernel is really only (but important) part of the
game.

Am Mo., 19. Mai 2025 um 15:13 Uhr schrieb Paul Boddie :
>
> On Monday, 19 May 2025 08:11:58 CEST Torsten Wierschin wrote:
> > Hi there!
> >
> > In my opinion, the problem discussed here can be solved quite well
> > using yocto or buildroot or something else. If I ever find the time,
> > I'd be happy to publish my yocto build environment for l4re. But maybe
> > someone else will be faster?
>
> How are you using Yocto with L4Re? I'm familiar with tools like Buildroot and
> derivatives, and it seems plausible that beyond the level of individual
> packages one could probably replicate the dependency management that the L4Re
> build system provides.
>
> I have actually used Buildroot with L4Re, but only to generate toolchains with
> fairly specific requirements, so there was no real integration with L4Re as
> such.
>
> Paul
>
> P.S. Another question I might ask relates to how you and others are using
> L4Re, but that deserves a separate thread.
>
>
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