Re: Why citation references not like footnotes?
On Wed, Jul 05, 2000 at 11:06:37AM +0900, R. Lahaye wrote: > John Weiss wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 04, 2000 at 10:28:34AM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > > > > As you can see, long citations are a problem, period. Best to avoid > > such situations and rephrase your sentence or paragraph. > > This "citation" discussion is NOT about the final typesetting! Good. Makes the conversation even simpler. > It's the way many (or long) citation-refs look in the LyX text. > It's the citation-key that causes the problem, not the citation > style!!! Don't use such long keys for your citation-refs. As I said, that's why "et. al." exists. Citation insets should wrap. If, however, you're cramming 200 different references into a single citation, you've written one hell of an ugly sentence! There's something inherently problematic with a reference in a paper that occupies more than one line, let alone two. As I once wrote in the User's Guide: LyX is WYSIWYM, which means a) things won't necessarily look pretty on screen; and b) you can no longer use layout as an excuse for avoiding good content. -- John Weiss "Not through coersion. Not by force. But by compassion. By affection. And, a small fish." -His Holiness, the 14th Dalai Lama
Re: Why citation references not like footnotes?
John Weiss wrote: > On Tue, Jul 04, 2000 at 10:28:34AM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > > It happens when you cite several documents in one cite inset, as in > > JWeiss97,JWeiss98,JWeiss98a,JWeiss99,JWeiss2000. > > This *is* an unfortunate problem. I don't recall if LaTeX itself > handles such long citations. (I suppose it depends on the citation > style you use.) I seem to recall writing a paper with such a long > compound citation in it. IIRC, I used some LaTeX magic to force it > onto its own line, or something similar. > > As you can see, long citations are a problem, period. Best to avoid > such situations and rephrase your sentence or paragraph. This "citation" discussion is NOT about the final typesetting! It's the way many (or long) citation-refs look in the LyX text. It's the citation-key that causes the problem, not the citation style!!! Many citations or long citation-keys will cause an overflow on the right margin of the LyX window and such citations-refs are not wrapped. Wrapping citation-refs seems to be very difficult to implement and that's why I suggested a "footnote" style for the citation-refs in LyX as a solution. For one of my citation-references I have to make my LyX window 2000 pixels wide in order to see/check all the references. After being processed throught LaTeX, this long list shows up as "[1-23]". Regards, Rob.
Re: Why citation references not like footnotes?
On Tue, Jul 04, 2000 at 10:28:34AM +0200, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > > It happens when you cite several documents in one cite inset, as in > JWeiss97,JWeiss98,JWeiss98a,JWeiss99,JWeiss2000. This *is* an unfortunate problem. I don't recall if LaTeX itself handles such long citations. (I suppose it depends on the citation style you use.) I seem to recall writing a paper with such a long compound citation in it. IIRC, I used some LaTeX magic to force it onto its own line, or something similar. As you can see, long citations are a problem, period. Best to avoid such situations and rephrase your sentence or paragraph. -- John Weiss "Not through coersion. Not by force. But by compassion. By affection. And, a small fish." -His Holiness, the 14th Dalai Lama
Re: Why citation references not like footnotes?
> "John" == John Weiss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: John> Citations are not at all similar to footnotes. When writing John> articles for technical journals, or when writing a doctoral John> thesis, you need to see what you're referring back to, or you'll John> get hopelessly lost! Agreed. John> 1. Citation refs should wrap. I'd be surprised if they didn't John> already. They do not, since insets in general do not wrap. John> 2. Citation refs should be *short*. That's what G*d gave us "el. John> al." for. ;) I'm fairly certain that the cross-ref for a John> citation is a writer-defined mnemonic, just like the names of John> section cross-refs. Why choose something over half a line long? It happens when you cite several documents in one cite inset, as in JWeiss97,JWeiss98,JWeiss98a,JWeiss99,JWeiss2000. JMarc
Re: Why citation references not like footnotes?
On Sat, Jul 01, 2000 at 04:34:37PM +0900, R. Lahaye wrote: > Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > > "R" == R Lahaye <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > R> Hello, > > R> I'm suprised why citation references are not handled like, for > > R> example, footnotes. A citation can then be indicated with "cite" > > R> (in small, red font). > > > > It is useful when proofreading a text to see what has been cited (it > > avoids a lot of mistakes, IMO). What could be done though is to have a > > way to specify a max number of character for the inset (either > > hardcoded or via lyxrc), so that the display is trucated if needed. > > I believe citations are a similar "object" as footnotes > (BTW often citation references are printed as footnotes!). > How do you check the footnotes when proofreading? Citations are not at all similar to footnotes. When writing articles for technical journals, or when writing a doctoral thesis, you need to see what you're referring back to, or you'll get hopelessly lost! Note: in some academic disciplines, citations are implemented as footnotes. This does not, however, mean that citations *are* footnotes. Citations are citations. They can even be an integral part of the text in some disciplines. What should happen is this: 1. Citation refs should wrap. I'd be surprised if they didn't already. 2. Citation refs should be *short*. That's what G*d gave us "el. al." for. ;) I'm fairly certain that the cross-ref for a citation is a writer-defined mnemonic, just like the names of section cross-refs. Why choose something over half a line long? -- John Weiss "Not through coersion. Not by force. But by compassion. By affection. And, a small fish." -His Holiness, the 14th Dalai Lama
Re: Why citation references not like footnotes?
[I'm not member of lyx-devel, include my address in a CC for replies] Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > "R" == R Lahaye <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > R> Hello, > R> I'm suprised why citation references are not handled like, for > R> example, footnotes. A citation can then be indicated with "cite" > R> (in small, red font). > > It is useful when proofreading a text to see what has been cited (it > avoids a lot of mistakes, IMO). What could be done though is to have a > way to specify a max number of character for the inset (either > hardcoded or via lyxrc), so that the display is trucated if needed. I believe citations are a similar "object" as footnotes (BTW often citation references are printed as footnotes!). How do you check the footnotes when proofreading? Apparently, it's accepted in lyx that footnotes are hidden in the little tag "foot". Why not hiding the the references in a little tag "cite"? An optional toggle, document wide, could be useful: - show all citation references (as is now; for proofreading) - hide all citation reference (in the tag "cite"). Regards, Rob.
Re: Why citation references not like footnotes?
> "R" == R Lahaye <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: R> Hello, [I'm not member of lyx-devel, include my address in a CC for R> replies] R> The citation references have some troubles: many and/or long keys R> cause lines to overflow the right margin, which seems to be too R> complicated to handle nicely. R> I'm suprised why citation references are not handled like, for R> example, footnotes. A citation can then be indicated with "cite" R> (in small, red font). It is useful when proofreading a text to see what has been cited (it avoids a lot of mistakes, IMO). What could be done though is to have a way to specify a max number of character for the inset (either hardcoded or via lyxrc), so that the display is trucated if needed. JMarc
Why citation references not like footnotes?
Hello, [I'm not member of lyx-devel, include my address in a CC for replies] The citation references have some troubles: many and/or long keys cause lines to overflow the right margin, which seems to be too complicated to handle nicely. I'm suprised why citation references are not handled like, for example, footnotes. A citation can then be indicated with "cite" (in small, red font). Viewing/adding/removing citation keys can be done in the window that pops up when clicking on "cite". The new citation window that allows multiple citation keys, could do the job. This setup will deal with the right-margin-problem and is a nice interface for manipulating the citation keys. Just a thought. Regards, Rob.
