Re: What's happening with writing content?
--- Ramon Navarro Bosch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Done I'm still not receiving it, and I've gone very carefully through my spam folder (I could win a MacBook Pro!!! ;) Is it plone that's sending out an email? Could you check that it's working please? Alternatively, is there a time when you're on IRC and you can just tell me the password? En/na Joachim Noreiko ha escrit: --- Ramon Navarro Bosch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The URL : https://gnome.jardigrec.eu The login details : username : jnoreiko I reseted the password that should be sended to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I haven't received it -- could have got eaten by yahoo's spam filter. Could you send it again please? ___ Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html ___ Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: What's happening with writing content?
--- Ramon Navarro Bosch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It sends the mail but I saw : to=[EMAIL PROTECTED], relay=relay.upc.es[147.83.2.50]:25, conn_use=17, delay=25359, delays=25342/17/0/0.07, dsn=4.1.8, status=SOFTBOUNCE (host relay.upc.es[147.83.2.50] said: 553 5.1.8 [EMAIL PROTECTED]... Domain of sender address [EMAIL PROTECTED] does not exist (in reply to RCPT TO command )) So I changed the source mail and now should work. It does! Excellent. I had to faff a bit as I didn't know what my username was. (Sorry to be picky, but any chance that when we move this over to Gnome servers I can have the same user name as on SVN, blog and so on, joachimn?) ___ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: What's happening with writing content?
--- Ramon Navarro Bosch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi , I added the editors Quim said to me on the devsite ( gnome.jardigrec.eu ) where they can began adding content on english. I get 'Error 503 Service Unavailable' And anyway -- what are the login details? ___ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
What's happening with writing content?
Nothing seems to be happening here of late. I'm aware that we have deadlines coming up, and that there's a few goals I'm supposed to be in charge of. Problem is, I have no idea what the status of our CMS setup is, or where I'm supposed to go do actually start putting in some content. Could someone fill me in please? Also, do we still have writers interested in helping, or have they lost interest and drifted off? PS Please CC me, still offlist. ___ What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
visibility at the user level (was: How do we want to do GNOME Marketing?)
--- Thilo Pfennig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/24/06, Joachim Noreiko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Thilo Pfennig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When a user boots Ubuntu, they see the Ubuntu splash, the Ubuntu desktop background, and the Ubuntu logo on the panel. And that's as it should be -- otherwise, they'd say 'Hey, I put in an Ubuntu CD, what's this Gnome stuff?' Sure, thats true. This is a a problem of marketing. I also think that we have to rethink the marketing strategy here. There are roughly two options (but also ways inbetween): A. GNOME wants visibility at the user level and therefore has to implement a distribution mechanism that starts from the homepage. So this is abot: A user wants GNOME and can get it. B. GNOME does not care about visibility of its brand at the user level, instead we are working with ISVs and distributions,... . I think currently we have something of both but without a clear strategy. if we do not want either A nor B we must define C. Exactly, we have a bit of both: we are working with ISVs and distributions, we have no distribution system of our own, but we want to be visible at the user level. The first part we can't feasibly change even if we wanted to: we don't have the resources to implement our own distribution. But for the second part we have a choice: do we want to be visible at the user level? What are the advantages to this? There may be other ways to circumvent the brand problem. I see the way described above as a good way to move forward for future versions of GNOME. We can not solve this alone - we need the distributors to help us and they need us to make a better support and a better GNOME. And then we do not need to car so much about the visibility of the brand - we will then agree of how our brand and the distributors brand must or can be used. I think we can learn from the way intel managed to brand itself. They managed to raise the profile of an internal component that most users barely knew about and never came into contact with. If we decide we want user-visibility, I would suggest we devise our equivalent of the 'intel inside' sticker. We have a plan to make branding easier for distros [1], with documentation and perhaps an automated tool. If we had this, we could leave one piece of Gnome branding there, and say to distros: 'We're making it easier for you to rebrand Gnome. In return, we ask you to leave this particular bit of the Gnome identity in.' [1] http://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing/LinuxDistros Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Fwd: How do we want to do GNOME Marketing?
--- Thilo Pfennig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I don't really see blocking. I think we will not increase awarenesss of GNOME from our website. The websites are a mess - but whoever visits GNOME websites has at least some idea of why he visits these pages. I mean that working on GnomeWeb is the first step towards those two goals, and we can't get much done on those goals until the new GnomeWeb is up. Do you mean making GNOME more visible and the distributors wanting to show their logos/brand are in conflict? In a way, yes. When a user boots Ubuntu, they see the Ubuntu splash, the Ubuntu desktop background, and the Ubuntu logo on the panel. And that's as it should be -- otherwise, they'd say 'Hey, I put in an Ubuntu CD, what's this Gnome stuff?' But at the same time, a lot of these users don't know that they're using the Gnome desktop. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: gnome revamp banner
--- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can ve invest your contributing energies and design qualities in real deliverables? :) I'd really like it someone did a new version of the banner for the marketing team: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeMarketing Unless we simply decide we don't need a banner for the Marketing team? ___ Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 7p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: How do we want to do GNOME Marketing?
--- Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The marketing team should define an overall goal for GNOME. We should not just invent slogans. We also should not try to sell GNOME. I think that we do not want that because than we would want people to use GNOME instead of KDE or other desktops. But that would not benefit but harm us! Here we disagree - the marketing team does not define the goals, it identifies and communicates them. We should be herding aligned efforts, and making people realise that they are aligned. I don't think the marketing team should define goals -- though we can perhaps suggest some based on feedback from users. However, I think that *somebody* should be defining goals for GNOME. The marketing team can take part in that, but it shouldn't be solely us. Example: module maintainer 1 is working on abstracting away some aspect (functionality X) of his module behind a library. The functionality he's abstracting away could be useful for module maintainer 2, who has a long-standing feature request to include functionality X. So one module maintainer's tidy up code becomes another maintainer's Add functionality X. That's going to be too technical for some members the marketing team. That's something we need 'glue-people' for -- developers who are on several teams or hop between them. Or, in discussing plans with 4 or 5 maintainers, you realise that everyone really wants to implement Jono Bacon's project spaces idea - and you get David Trowbridge together with Elijah Newren and a couple of key application writers (say, gaim, epiphany, nautilus) to cross-polinate tagging and workspaces, and have a couple of apps support it, and wahay! Major new feature thanks to your insight and effort in putting the right people together. Again, this sort of thing should happen and it would be great, but I don't think marketing team should be doing it. Isn't it desktop-devel-list's job? Or if not them, who? It's the difference between I'm telling you what you're going to work on for the next 6 months and Just last week I was talking to X about $COOL_IDEA - you guys should talk and see if you can't work on that together. Well there's telling and there's suggesting. I think the free software ethos of 'everybody works on whatever they feel like', with no sort of planning goal-setting can only get us so far. The last few releases of Gnome I've been involved in haven't had any sort of coherency to them. They've just been 'here's what we all did for the last 6 months'. The marketing team's managed to sift through and produce some sort of theme from that but it's not been very successful. This isn't just about making it easier to market a Gnome release. I think Gnome needs more focus and momentum. Like Thilo says in his later mail, we have some big shortcomings. Take printing -- we should be able to decide (ddl, or whichever gathering of glue developers) that 2.20 will be all about making printing on Gnome cool. A long-term roadmap like that would be a good start. ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Fleshing out our pages
I've done a bit more on the page list for the About and Get Involved sections. Get Started is still do to, if anyone wants to have a go. These summaries are pretty basic, so please add more to them if you think it's needed. When can we actually start writing pages on the CMS? I know the skins all that aren't ready, but I assume the setup is separate from the content. Plus the sooner we start using it, the sooner we can start giving feedback about any problems that might need ironing out. ___ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: wgo Tour: which pages?
--- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about inserting here a page about Innovation Roadmap... GNOME shaping its future. That would be good. If that was something GNOME did. What else? Perhaps mentioning the 10X10 and Topaz would make sense here as well. No. 10x10 is a pipedream and Topaz is nothing more than a big dump of crazy ideas on the wiki. Good! Now we should define how a page of the tour looks like. Are we talking about highly graphic slides with no scroll like a presentation or a Flash thing, or should we go for more explanatory pages with scroll Somewhere there's a mostly CSS-based presentation thingy. Does anyone else remember what I mean? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: wgo Tour: which pages?
--- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2006-11-23 at 14:36 +, Joachim Noreiko wrote: --- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about inserting here a page about Innovation Roadmap... GNOME shaping its future. That would be good. If that was something GNOME did. Well it's not just what GNOME does (*), but also what GNOME can handle. For instance, do you want to have all those 3D, transparent, rainy, whatever effects in your desktop? Enjoy them with GNOME. If the argument is still unconvincing, can we find other areas of attractive innovation? Or is GNOME not having innovation at all? There's innovation, but no roadmap. Flashy new features get put into gnome, but often without considering the integration into the overall desktop, and without the follow-up work. There's an essay I read on the web a while ago about how most software projects never get past 0.9 (possibly by Havoc in fact, but I don't remember and I can't find it). We're doing this too often. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME : Get involved
--- Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Catching up late in the game is sometimes unsettling. So here I was trying to grasp the spread of the tasks and FIXMEs and ToDo when I chanced upon this subtask: Spread GNOME -- is this an existing endeavour or something we're starting? Ask the Marketing team in http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/WgoGetInvolved and I was stuck. - From a read of the archives and some more reading (there is more to read that I can ever complete) on the l.g.o it seems (to me at least) that the Spread GNOME is an existing effort. So what is the current scope of this effort: o LUGs o Corporates o Banners o Stickers o Logo placements Good question! Prompted by your email, I've typed spread gnome into google, and found this: http://www.spreadgnome.org/ ... which claims to be restructuring. Look at blog posts and this list's archive, the site was launch in August of this year. I don't remember if the site ever had any content, but it certainly doesn't now. I rather agree with what Quim said at the time: -- I still wonder why we need an external site to promote GNOME. To me it is a symptom of a GNOME and gnome.org failure. The wgo revamp tries to solve failures like this, and I don't see what GNOME marketing spreadgnome.org could do that gnome.org can't do. http://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2006-August/msg00225.html So basically: Let's plan a spread gnome page in our section, that stands on its own. See what that does. Then think about whether we want to expand it to a whole site. That basically means it's up to us what we suggest people can do to help market gnome: as you say, LUGs, corporates, public organizations etc. One thing we'll have to remember is to ask the guy who owns http://www.spreadgnome.org/ to change his links once WGO is up. PS. Does anyone feel like updating the image we have on http://live.gnome.org/MarketingTeam, or doing a new one? I don't want to offend whoever's hard work that is, but it looks like the guy's being screamed at... ___ Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME : Get involved
--- Djihed Afifi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2006-11-16 at 11:44 +, Joachim Noreiko wrote: I still wonder why we need an external site to promote GNOME. To me it is a symptom of a GNOME and gnome.org failure. The wgo revamp tries to solve failures like this, and I don't see what GNOME marketing spreadgnome.org could do that gnome.org can't do. I think it's basically the name + the content + fans. The name gives a strong indication about what the site does. Fans, especially those who are not involved in the day to day development of gnome will be more drawn into a site where they feel it's actually about what they do: promote what they love, but not what they don't understand: development etc. Not sure if what I wanted to say got through :) (re-ccing the list) Right. Then let's make WGO's 'Get Involved' section speak to fans, not just developers. There's no reason why WGO can't address the needs you describe, and in fact I think it *should*. WGO should be everybody who has any sort of connection to gnome. PS. Could someone check whether our list of use cases has I'm a fanboy and I want to promote GNOME tirelessly on it? PPS. The wiki is being really slow lately. ___ Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Getting started on WGO content
--- Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joachim Noreiko wrote: Bear in mind that GnomeWeb/WgoGetInvolved is the planning page for one of several pieces of WGO content we have to work on. I sort of assumed it as such :) Super :) I thought as much, but best to make sure. Might be good for me if I work in smaller tangible chunks Right. Good to have both of you on the team. I think we should follow Quim's suggestion and list the pages we want, briefly describing their content. Does anyone want to get started on that? Just a rough draft or part of one will be a good start, and we can all edit it collectively on the wiki. Another thing to do might be to go through the page of use cases, pick out the ones that concern this section, and copy them to this goal's page. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Getting started on WGO content
--- Hugh Buzacott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay wrote: and I'm thinking 'Yikes... How are we going to do this?' /me raises a tentative hand for volunteering. However, I am new to this so would require some precise guidance and work in reasonable sized chunks :) :Sankarshan I think the current plan for all who want to be involved is to add themselves to the bottom of http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/WgoGetInvolved Bear in mind that GnomeWeb/WgoGetInvolved is the planning page for one of several pieces of WGO content we have to work on. Your name there signs you up to work specifically on the Get Involved section of the new site. It's not a general get involved in gnome web page. (Does that all make sense? It's Monday morning and my head is on backwards.) There are other goals for other parts of the site, and you're welcome to sign up to those too -- or not. Any help is very welcome, and if you only have time to commit to one goal that's fine. You can see all of the current goals here: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/Goals Thanks for the hand-raising, both of you :) Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Planning for each release
Just seen this: https://features.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/feisty Isn't this the sort of thing we were saying needs to be done for each gnome cycle, so we know what we're aiming for, and the marketing team knows what a release's focus will be? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Header design mock 11/10
--- Calum Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - (Wearing noob user's hat) Some of the links seem a bit vague, e.g. what's the difference between the News link and the news I'm looking at on the home page, and why should I ever need to visit an About page-- shouldn't all the other pages cover everything 'about' GNOME that I'd (Btw, has anyone done any card-sorting type exercises to check that the categories we think make sense are the ones our target audience thinks make sense?) No, we haven't. The breakdown of the wgo site navigation is here: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/NewWgoStructure This was actually agreed last cycle, and we're almost at the stage of writing the content. But if you feel we should do that, then I suppose we can. Although I don't know if anyone other than you has the experience and the resources to do any card-sorting -- I for one wouldn't have a clue where to begin. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Getting started on WGO content
Hi all. I've taken on the task of co-ordinating three of the goals that are concerned with creating pages of the new www.gnome.org: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/WgoGetStarted http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/WgoGetInvolved http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/WgoAbout The first two in particular are pretty important. They are the main way into the gnome site for users of gnome, and for potential contributors to gnome, respectively. At this point, I'm looking at the outline of page structure that's come from last cycle's http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/NewWgoStructure goal, and I'm thinking 'Yikes... How are we going to do this?' I think the biggest problem is research. Just looking at the Get Started section, there is heaps of stuff I don't know -- what distros do we want to feature? What can we offer for Windows Mac downloads? Where's our LiveCD? Is it up to date, and who maintains it? There's going to be a lot of material to write, and while I can rattle out words quite fast I would appreciate any help that's on offer. But as well as writers we need researchers who can go off and ask questions in the right mailing lists [1] and then come back with the answers. Are there any volunteers? [1] Mailing lists. I hate them. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: community.gnome.org (was Re: [Fwd: GnomeWeb 2.18 goals])
--- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2006-10-23 at 09:34 +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote: What on earth is community.gnome.org? As for today it is a launcher from the general nav bar to the GNOME is People subsites: * Planet GNOME * GUADEC and other event subsites if appropriate i.e. Foro Brazil * The GNOME Foundation * ... and all the official regional sites. I believe there is potential content to justify such subdomain, although I haven't got the time to extract yet the related use cases. However, it is clear that we are going late and short of resources on this 2.18 release, so maybe we could do something a bit more straightforward by now: - Take out Community from the General nav bar and add Planet and Foundation. - Link GUADEC and other event subsites from news.gnome.org (News in the General nav bar) - Create a page in wgo under About or Get Involved listing the regional subsites. The General nav bar would be then: (GNOME logo) | News | Planet | Projects | Art | Support | Development | Foundation Foundation being on the General nav bar is probably a good thing. Other than that, it's getting long and messy. Put Planet in with News. Shame about the regional sites getting hidden. As some of them carry news, maybe link them from News also. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: [Fwd: GnomeWeb 2.18 goals]
--- Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=Quim Gil * projects.gnome.org - GnomeWeb/ProjectsPages . I want to update this page and see if we find a 2.18 solution that satisfies Jeff. * support.gnome.org . Hopefully Luke will want to take on this. * community.gnome.org . Hopefully a GNOME is people fan will want to take on this. I have to send the fighting subdomain disease email in response to this. What is all this stuff? Why does it need a subdomain? How is projects.gnome.org back on the agenda at all? Well, we could just delete all the current projects pages ;) Some of them are unmaintained and some duplicate things we want to say elsewhere. But the various app teams might object. Is support.g.o meant to be the subdomain 'version' of gnomesupport.org? Why make it a subdomain at all? Because, speaking as an average surfer, when I see gnomesupport.org, with its different url and its sort of the same navbar but not quite, I don't know whether it's offically a gnome site or not. Not that it should matter -- support is support -- but I then wonder 'If this isn't part of GNOME, is there another, REAL support site?' The general idea is, I believe, that if it's something we run at gnome, then it's a part of gnome.org. What on earth is community.gnome.org? Why wouldn't wgo be representative of the community in some way? Why does it need Yet Another Subdomain? Community is a gateway to Foundation, Planet, Guadec, and others. See http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/Navigation If it seems like we're shoehorning stuff into categories, yes, perhaps we are. But we have a lot of sites and bits spread all over and linked up like spaghetti. (See monster list here: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/GnomeSubsites and even compiling that and figuring out what exists took us a while) wgo itself is already quite full of stuff we want: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/NewWgoStructure The general idea is that navigation items in the general bar common to all gnome sites go to subdomains, leaving wgo's own primary bar. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: [Fwd: GnomeWeb 2.18 goals]
--- Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=Joachim Noreiko Those ideas never needed to be in opposition, but were pushed that way. They are not mutually exclusive. Fair enough. But then what's your objection? Using the projects.g.o subdomain? That doesn't have to imply Yet Another Subdomain. Ok, then let's stick it at wgo/support. But wgo/support is a general page that points to forums, to irc, other support channels etc. So we're putting it at wgo/forums? What's wrong with www.gnomesupport.org? There's no reason it can't integrate with the new site design, implementation, infrastructure, or all of the above. I think it's confusing to pop out of the gnome.org family of URLs. Surely a completely different domain is even worse than a subdomain? Anyway, I don't fully understand some of the issues involved, such as why it's bad to use subdomains, and it's monday morning... I'll leave this to Quim to answer :) Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: [Fwd: GnomeWeb 2.18 goals]
--- Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=Joachim Noreiko Those ideas never needed to be in opposition, but were pushed that way. They are not mutually exclusive. Fair enough. But then what's your objection? Using the projects.g.o subdomain? Yes. It's unnecessary. What's wrong with www.gnomesupport.org? There's no reason it can't integrate with the new site design, implementation, infrastructure, or all of the above. I think it's confusing to pop out of the gnome.org family of URLs. For whom? Most people don't give a crap about URLs. They're strings of meaningless crap. Phishing is a testament to that. Surely a completely different domain is even worse than a subdomain? The content already exists there, working URLs, etc. Why move it? Making it look, feel and work in a more integrated fashion is definitely worthwhile. Shifting it wholesale to make the URL pretty is not. Work on the new gnome web is progressing at a glacial pace (we began over 6 months ago, it may be another 6 before there are any visitor-visible changes). We're doing this so we have time to properly plan things, so everybody concerned can get a say, and so we get it right. If there are general reasons to not use subdomains, then let's hear them. If you have comments on the proposed wgo structure and the wider gnome web structure, then we can take them on board -- it all only exists on paper for now. I take your point that having a subdomain such as support.g.o for a mere stub of a page that points elsewhere isn't brilliant. We need to rethink this. On the other hand, I think wgo/projects should be moved out. As I see it, the point is to have a fairly slim wgo site, which does specific things and points visitors to other sites for the rest. If something isn't part of the new wgo, then it's in a subdomain so it doesn't have a wgo url. If using subdomains to accomplish this separation is bad, then we need alternatives. We could, I suppose, just write down on a piece of paper which subfolders of wgo are 'core wgo' and which aren't. As you say, URLs don't get noticed, so it's mostly for our benefit. I could go with that, but whoever guards the piece of paper needs a special hat ;) As for www.gnomesupport.org, it's a rubbish url. Why doesn't it sit with gnome.org? Who knows. (It's just like the documentation project, we're trawling through the ruins of a lost civilization.) But the current endeavour to revamp all of the gnome web gives us a chance to fix all these funny legacy issues and begin with a clean slate. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Channel interference (was GnomeWeb 2.18 goals)
--- Thilo Pfennig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there we come back to the problem of parallel channels. I think it is important if you add content to a page that you tell why this is listed. My impression was that these things were already discussed but now my impression is that this list does no represent the discussion about these topics. So somehow discussion and the list seemed to have gotten out of sync? Well this should never happen, because this will lead to serious problems when people are relying on the wikis content. Personally I would like to suggest to discuss some issues on the wikis primarily - and if some results of a discussion are added that then this is mentioned explicitly (best with source like email-url in mailing list) We've been mostly using this list for announcements, calls for help, and requests for comments when the wiki seems quiet. So it's a sort of meta-channel. just plain stupid that one has to subscribe and follow dozens of mailing lists and ALSO the wiki. Each time I work on a new set of docs, I have to go and subscribe to yet another mailing list get more crud in my mailbox. I agree with all your points about mailing lists, but it's a wider discussion about how we communicate across gnome -- it's out of the scope of this list so you'll have to... subscribe to another mailing list. And then deal with the flak, because who knows why, but programmers seem to love mailing lists and teeth may need to be pulled. But hey, drag them kicking and screaming in the the 21st century age of the pull medium. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
wgo subsection goals
I've taken on three of the wgo subsections goals. However, I'm not entirely clear on what the goals entail. I presume we're going to decide how many pages we want in this section, what each one is about, and write the text? I've set up a goal page for the first of them: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/WgoGetStarted As I'm rubbish at use cases, I'd appreciate if someone could pick out the relevant ones I've missed. As ever, if anyone wants to start the ball rolling and stick some ideas down on that page, please do. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Because you have better stuff to do than fixing your computer
--- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can we borrow the Just Works! (tm) slogan? *somewhere* on the wiki I wrote an idea for a slogan, but I can't find it. I think it was something like Your computer, simpler. ___ Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. The New Version is radically easier to use The Wall Street Journal http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GnomeWeb 2.18 release cycle
--- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2.18 GnomeWeb update: Greg, do we have news about the CMS selection? We start needing a solution since we have the prototyping phase around the corner and it would be good to start working with the final CMS. Next Wednesday we have another milestone: * October 18th - End of new goals proposal period. # wgo Get Started # wgo Get Involved # wgo About Are these three just to do with working out structure and writing the content for the future sections of wgo? I'll sign up to a few of these. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: [Fwd: XHTML 1.1 or 1.0?]
--- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is stated in that document that all pages should conform to XHTML 1.1. I think this is a bad idea unless you want to keep out Internet Explorer users since XHTML 1.1 requires the web server to send the MIME type application/xhtml+xml instead of the usual text/html. Internet Explorer only offers its user to download the file in that case. Looking at the wikipedia article on XHTML, the only advantage of 1.1 I can see is: This version also allows for ruby markup support, needed for East-Asian languages (especially CJK). Is this an important advantage? (By the way: an extra use case for the website: Is gnome available in language x? I can't currently find this from the site.) Are there any other advantages? Can we get an idea of what proportion of visitors to wgo use IE, perhaps from server logs? It might be fair to suppose that most of our audience already use a free browser even if they are on windows, but then this would exclude people who might happen to want to access the site from work, a library, a web cafe, etc. ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Spreading the press release/release announcement and collecting press coverage
--- Dave Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There's a lot of stuff people talk about on pgo.
What do you think?
That release notes writers have nothing better to
do than taking notes
about stuff developers say somewhere on the
Internet?
Well, it's my primary news source to know what
application maintainers
are working on, and what is creating a buzz in our
community. So yes, I
think it is important for people interested in
promoting GNOME (and
particularly release notes writers) be aware of it.
I think this particular point is a cultural issue, but
not cultural in the sense of nationalities...
I think it's more to do with the coder/non-coder
divide in GNOME -- whether this is real or only
perceived.
It's something I'm aware of with my work as a
documentation writer. You feel very much that you're
expected to do a lot of chasing up, and going to get
the resources you need yourself.
In a similar vein, I'd like people working on the apps
I document to *push* information to me ('Hi docs list,
I've just made this change to the interface, thought
you might need to know'), rather than me have to dig
up and interpret changelogs that mean mostly nothing
to me with only two weeks to go to release.
This sort of thing requires a change in culture rather
than new rules like there are already for freezes.
I thought about creating a set of policies for the
Docs Team, including what we expect from module
maintainers.
Perhaps the marketing team could do the same?
___
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http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
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Re: Screenshot link on frontpage
--- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2006-09-22 at 12:43 +0100, Joachim Noreiko wrote: Overview is a synonym for About. Overview - What we do Subpages: 10 Steps | Screenshots | Videos About - Who we are Subpages: Project | Teams | Foundation | History | Logo Trademarks | Press/Media | Contact Us Seeing the secondary pages of both sections the difference is clear. Yes, the first is a tour, and the second is an 'About' section... in a sense, the first is about using gnome, the second is about how gnome is made. But until you follow the links, the two words have nothing to differentiate them. Would About Us break the initial confusion? Having an About section at the end is almost a convention. I would use Tour for that first navigation item. ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Support in new WGO structure
Quim, I really like the changes you've made to the new structure plan at http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/NewWgoStructure My only concern is how deep down you've placed Support. I can see that Support is not worth a top-level link, because it's only a page of links to the forums and the mailing list. There's also the matter that most users needing support will probably go to their distro first (eg Ubuntu support pages and forums). Our use cases reflect this accordingly. About-Contact is aiming at someone asking Is gnome well-supported? But should we cover the case I need support with gnome and add something in Get Started? ___ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: wgo scope and general goals
--- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A suggestion to fix a couple of planning documents before the 2.16.1 deadline (4/oct). If you look at http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/WgoScope and the General Goals at http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/Goals you will see that both lists have some unnecessary overlapping. Was GnomeWeb/Goals written for the whole of the gnome web rather than only wgo? ___ Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: WGO Revamp: Look and Feel
--- Máirín Duffy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everybody, Using Lee's site structure wireframe mockup, I put together another iteration of the WGO look feel mockup: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/LooknFeel Below I'm going to highlight some issues and bring up some questions to hopefully continue the discussion flowing! :) - snip * Panos, you had mentioned [2] not quite liking the design of the top bars - if you have some spare time to sketch out any ideas you have, I'd love to incorporate them! :) I thought we were going to use the guadec-style general navbar? I like the rounded and separated look, but I also thought we were going with the dotted-line snapped look of your earlier mockup. ___ All new Yahoo! Mail The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: WGO Revamp: Look and Feel
--- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure if it's appropriate to show all these feet in the primary nav bar. We are used to see GNOME feed all around but how would it look like to new users? I was thinking the same, it's a bit too heavy having the foot on each navbar item. ___ Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: LayoutPlan Clarification
--- LeeTambiah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The breadcrumb component has been dropped, and pages have been updated have been updated. I have added a new version of the secondary page layoutPlanSecondaryPage0.3.svg. Download the .svg from http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/PageStructure. I still prefer the secondary links on the right. Having it on top gives the header too many horizontal lines and makes it heavy. Also, you get the impression that the header has changed from the home page, which isn't good. Yahoo! Photos is now offering a quality print service from just 7p a photo. http://uk.photos.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Layout Plan
--- LeeTambiah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Secondary Page layout is now centre aligned on the page[1]. Should we apply the centre align to the home page also, at current it is left aligned. I think the home page should also be centre aligned like the Apple site[2]. I agree. Someone mentioned maximum width, which is probably a good thing. I'm not sure how we get that to happen in CSS *and* let it get narrower than the maximum if it needs to. ___ Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Secondary Navigation Bar
--- LeeTambiah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ahh, I refer to the main top bar as the GENERAL NAVIGATION BAR, the bar that access's the gnome subsites subsites. Oops, I see I got my terms mixed up. How about we call them: * GNOME navigation bar -- takes you to different subsites in the GNOME web * subsite navigation bar -- gets you around a particular subsite. (Eg, what bugzilla currently has as its only navigation bar) * page navigation -- gets you to different closely related pages (that block on the right of the page in the mockup) ___ Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. The New Version is radically easier to use The Wall Street Journal http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: User oriented release notes
--- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Integrate marketing and business visions with the technical vision that is guiding the 2.18 release. Since day zero. snip Someone needs to think what these bodies need and how the next release is going to help them, be useful to them. I think you're absolutely right. But there is this perception that developers on Free projects work only on what they want to work on and only on what's fun, and that therefore, for example, you can't demand that bug X be fixed... I know this is the sort of rhetoric you see on slashdot, and therefore a little bit exaggerated. But I do get a general feeling that developers resent any outside intervention, whether that's by marketing, documentation, or usability people. This is bad for GNOME. Bugs don't get fixed, features are developed in isolation without reference to the rest of the dektop interface, and the big decisions get deferred indefinitely. - Planning and production of the release notes following the release cycle. We start deciding who are our audiences, what we want to give them, how we present the information to them. We don't need to wait a feature freeze to go ahead with this. The same way that I want to be able to start writing documention for new features before freeze... ;) ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: User oriented release notes
--- Claus Schwarm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Concerning your vision stuff: This looks like bullshit to me. Maybe I've seen to many clueless marketing people speak like that, and my impression is wrong. However, it looks like bullshit. Sorry. :-( I think that 'vision' is one of those buzzwords that brings out the fear of marketing bullshit in many of us. ;) But Quim's general point is sound: that instead of each stable release being 'well this is the stuff we managed to get done the last 6 months', we should think about trying to plan what each release should aim for and be focussed on at the start of the cycle. Despite my reservations that it may be hard to bring about this sort of change, I agree with it :) ___ All new Yahoo! Mail The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Epiphany Homepage
--- Max Jonas Werner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but there's one thing that irritated me: The Epiphany home page is http://www.google.com; per default. Wouldn't it be better to set it to http://www.gnome.org/start/X.YY; for every release? No, because that's release notes. As is being pointed out in another thread right now, it's not very user-orientated. Another option could be to create a Gnome start page just for the purpose of using it as home page in Epiphany. Hmmm... maybe. But don't most distros overwrite that anyway? Ubuntu certainly provides a home page (not sure if it puts it into Epi as well as Firefox, but logically it should). I don't think it's worth the effort of something else to maintain on our site. ___ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Epiphany Homepage
--- Luca Cavalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2006-09-09 at 17:33 +0100, Joachim Noreiko wrote: Another option could be to create a Gnome start page just for the purpose of using it as home page in Epiphany. Hmmm... maybe. But don't most distros overwrite that anyway? Ubuntu certainly provides a home page (not sure if it puts it into Epi as well as Firefox, but logically it should). I don't think it's worth the effort of something else to maintain on our site. Well, just because Ubuntu, or any other distro, override GNOME defaults, it is not a good reason to not have them. This was the same for splash screen (I can remember a discussion about that a couple of releases ago). Not all distros overwrite GNOME defaults and not all users install precompiled packages. GNOME should take care also of these users. Ciao, Have I said before how much I dislike the distro model and how much difficulty it causes us? ... oh yeah, nearly every day ;) Anyway, yes, point taken. Can we simply use a part of the w.g.o site already planned for in the proposed new structure? If not, would this home page be something a visitor to w.g.o can access? ie, is it something we must add to the structure, or does it remain separate? And what's a good stable URL? ___ Does your mail provider give you FREE antivirus protection? Get Yahoo! Mail http://uk.mail.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: A brief on the focus on Performance improvements in Evolution 2.8 for GNOME 2.16
--- Claus Schwarm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunatly, I probably not a developer myself so I had to guess wildly about the meaning of some notes. Developers need to write human-readable release notes. My first try is available here: http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen/ReleaseNotes/TwoSixteenPerformance I've had a quick proof-read of it and fixed a few typos. ___ Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: 2.16 slogan and banner
--- Panos Laganakos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's version 07d: http://panos.solhost.org/mockups/gnome-banner-07d.png Removed the themes icons and changed the VERSION to v and brought the text closer. I have to note that I like the verbose 'VERSION' to v2.16 though :) I'm not sure about the 'v' either, and I agree with the earlier comment about 'version' being too much. Try with neither. After all, we always say just 'gnome 2.16' ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: 2.16 slogan and banner
--- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the theme Clarius, Apparently, that's just a new name for Clearlooks. ___ Does your mail provider give you FREE antivirus protection? Get Yahoo! Mail http://uk.mail.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Writing the 2.16 release notes (and press release)
--- Vincent Untz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - writing the start page: it should be quite easy, but we can improve it. See [3] for an example. I've not included a start page in the plan for the new WGO structure ( http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/NewWgoStructure ) I can't see what it is meant to do. ___ Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. The New Version is radically easier to use The Wall Street Journal http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: Writing the 2.16 release notes (and press release)
--- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - writing the release notes front page - writing the start page + if we want a press release Still no feedback about my proposal to have these three pages in a single one. Less work for probably a better result. I hadn't seen that, but I'm proposing pretty much the same. The start page seems to be a mix of the about page and the downloads page. These should be doing a good enough job to avoid being repeated. ___ Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
content and scope of www.gnome.org
--- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: GOALS FOR 6/SEP - 2.16 RELEASE All the goals are related to planning only: - Define the content and scope of www.gnome.org I'm not terribly good at this sort of thing, but my first attempt is here: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/WgoScope Please dissect and alter at will :) ___ Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. The New Version is radically easier to use The Wall Street Journal http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
WGO structure
I've finished work on condensing the different drafts, and following some feedback from Quim, it's on the wiki: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/NewWgoStructure Note that the top-level section titles are not necessarily the navigation bar link phrases. I was thinking in terms of URLs rather than links. Eg, Discover has been suggested for the About GNOME set of pages. ___ Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: WGO structure
--- Claus Schwarm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The structure lacks a portal for third-party developers: This is GNOME's most important product. The desktop has no real selling points unless lots of third-party dev's use the dev. platform. Fair enough. Could you add something to the plan for this? It's completely outside my experiences, so I have no idea what is needed. We don't need a whole portal for contributors. Contributors cannot be convinced by a few web pages. They grow slowly into helping. And most of them are hardcore enthusiasts and geeks, anyway, so they can deal with live.gnome.org as a portal for contributors. I can live with that. But something has to be done about live.g.o's ugliness. Would you then mention contributing on the community page? Next, I'm not quite sure whether it makes sense to sort gnomefiles and art.gnome site by site to the LiveCD, the release notes, and the sources. I wasn't sure about that either Quim persuaded me. Where would you put the links to those sites? I had a top-level section for 'cool things to do with your gnome', but the only things I could think of were art and gnomefiles... which doesn't make very many things. ___ All new Yahoo! Mail The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
wgo structure
--- Claus Schwarm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't get me wrong. I think most points of the former proposal are valid and should be kept in the current wgo revamp. See http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/NewWgoStructure , I'm asking for selecting and merging. Why don't you work together with Joachim to get an updated version? No offense meant to Joachim but the differences in his proposal that I find useful can easily be merged back into the old one. Some other points might be worth to be discussed; for example, removing 'Foundation' out of the top navigation -- no idea what other think about it. Some of his points I find, ehm, strange. ;-) Again, no offense meant! None taken :) My draft is just that, a draft, and only part of one at that. I'm trying to think in terms of paths through the site. My scenarios are these: * new to GNOME: about, why choose, tour, screenshots * new users: tour, link to library, link to support forum * general users: resources for gnome: links to: art themes, more software, support, etc * potential developers: not sure about this one * current developers: or this one ___ Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, easy and free. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/trueswitch2.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Why GNOME (was gnome app pages)
--- Claus Schwarm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, I have a draft about the why; reformulated from existing pages. It's attached. A native English speaker is probably able to refine the basic idea without problems; I just picked the words in the headers because of their, well, rhythm. At first glance this looks good. I like the way points are laid out. 'It's reliable. Granted.' 'Granted' doesn't mean what you think it does in this context. It sort of means 'I grudgingly concede your point' ;) And 'reliable' is a bit too vague, as we could be talking about reliability in the sense that gnome doesn't crash... This is the sort of thing we should use the wiki for, as it makes it easy for several people to work on documents. ___ Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
scrolling (was: gnome app pages (was confusingly Gnome Software Map))
--- Gergely Nagy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quim, and Gazim was it? Not scrolling is soo overrated. Screen sizes (and windows sizes!) are not uniform, so there is no way of avoiding scrolling. (To rant a bit, I hate designs which impose too much structure on a web page. It might look cool on the designer's mac, but as soon as you change font size, or resize the window so you don't have to strain your eyes on miles long lines the whole layout blows up in your face. I hope the new wgo will not do this...) Agreed. There is no way to know what width the user has his browser at. For example, I have a high desktop resolution, but my browser window is usually about half to 2/3 of the full width of my screen -- because it's easier to read short lines of text than long ones. We can *aim* to avoid scrolling, on an average display with default font size, but no more. One thing we should have however is a fluid design -- one where the width is not forced on the user, that flows into any size of window. ___ Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: www.gnome.org - content, scope, structure
--- Quim Gil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: El dc 02 de 08 del 2006 a les 15:00 +0100, en/na Joachim Noreiko va escriure: What should wgo provide to a visitor? ... or what wgo wants visitors to provide. ;) First we need to identify the visitors we want to satisfy best. Let's concentrate on * third party developers * public administrations * hobbyists * GNOME contributors (more: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/UseCases ) Ok, that looks like a good list. [1] http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/NewWgoStructure I have to say I'm getting confused with Joachim's rough draft version 1 and the rest of sections. Would it be possible to have an old-fashioned yet clear tree as in the Former proposal for New Structure ? Will do. If I'm understanding what you suggest, I think you are going for a wgo with too many pages. I think wgo can be more useful concentrating information and linking wherever you can find more. I've been away for a few days and the discussion here seems to have spiralled out of control -- or at least beyond my ability to follow it. I can't do mailing lists. They confuse me. So I have *no idea* what's been decided, and all I know is that I'm about 5 days behind the target date for my task. ___ Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. The New Version is radically easier to use The Wall Street Journal http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: gnome app pages (was confusingly Gnome Software Map)
--- Gezim Hoxha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2006-05-08 at 12:49 +0200, Gergely Nagy wrote: Hi, Hi. All right, so let's get back to basics :) We seem to need to do this, every now and then. Clearly, for these pages to make some sense at all, there has to be some added value. Let's try to enumerate these first... - authoritative by this i mean it will be the hopefully best maintained and relevant info source on an application relevant to gnome. People will of course be free to create an official website for their app, and publish it as they see fit. Yet, the wgo app pages would appear in a more-or-less uniform fashion, with some established guidelines. It will be possible to make it a collaborative effort, where several people can make sure the page is up do date and meeting some standards. Perhaps the official web page will be more up-to-date, because Changelogs appear within microseconds of a release, but people browsing wgo/apps will hopefully get a uniform and still valid resource to discover gnome apps. OK. With this, I disagree. We're basically wanting developers and/or volunteers to duplicate the information they have about the project. snip Why can't it be the project page. Why can't we integrate the development efforts with the main project page? My goal is to not have duplicate information it just clogs up the Internet tubes. It's not duplication. It's two different channels. Most users can't code. Suppose I'm an orddinary user. Maybe I've just installed Ubuntu and I want to know more about this gnome thing, maybe I've just heard of GNOME and I'm curious. I go to the GNOME home page, and from there I go to a page about an app -- say rhythmbox, because I like my MP3s (yeah, there's a whole other kettle of fish there, but leaving that aside for now...) If I see a page that's predominantly about roadmaps, bugzilla, IRC channels, and the like, I'm going to think that this GNOME thing is for people who can code. It's not for me. Basically, what we currently have is info about a particular app split like this: project - | wiki intro, screenshots, contact, download | roadmap, ideas, etc I think the split should be like this: wgo/app | projects intro, shots | contact, download, roadmap, ideas That of course requires 'projects' to be a CMS that's as easy to update quickly as the wiki currently is. But that's detail :) ___ All new Yahoo! Mail The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: gnome app pages (was confusingly Gnome Software Map)
--- Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=Joachim Noreiko wgo/app | projects intro, shots | contact, download, roadmap, ideas Why split? Reaching out to potential GNOME contributors and showing people the wonder of Free Software is our responsibility. Of course there are going to be things that are not appropriate for the product page, but that's what links are for. :-) Yes, when I say 'split', I don't mean that there won't be links -- far from it. I have in mind an image of a restaurant. You want an area that's clean and welcoming where customers come in and eat. And in some restaurants, you can see past the counter to the kitchen where the chef is working. And we want to go one further than that, and make it the sort of place where anyone can walk into the kitchen, and maybe put on an apron and help with the cooking if they feel like it :) But we don't want the kitchen to be the first thing people walk into. Kitchens are hot and a bit messy :) Joachim ___ All new Yahoo! Mail The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: gnome app pages (was confusingly Gnome Software Map)
--- Gergely Nagy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see wgo/apps/ page as an about box on steroids. It would be _the_ pace to go to find out some basic info about a gnome app. That's a good way of putting it :) Material that is currently in wgo/projects that is more aimed at developers should go on live.g.o, or whatever lgo turns into. ___ Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, easy and free. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/trueswitch2.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: GNOME project description for EuroOSCON .org day]
--- Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Comprised of hundreds of volunteer developers and industry-leading companies, the GNOME Foundation is an organization committed to supporting the advancement of GNOME. GNOME is a free software project that provides a complete, easy to use desktop for a variety of operating systems, including GNU/Linux, BSD, Solaris (tm), Operating Environment, HP-UX, Unix, BSD and Apple's Darwin. More than 700 computer developers, including over 100 full-time, paid developers, contribute their time and effort to the project. New suggestion: Comprised of hundreds of volunteer developers and industry-leading companies, GNOME is aiming to create a computing environment for the general public that is completely free software. Target platforms are both the desktop as well as embedded devices. At the same time GNOME is committed to enable people with disabilities through an elaborated Accessibility framework as the result of several years of effort. Comments? It's a lot clearer :) Check from native speakers? 'comprise' never goes with 'of'. 'Comprising hundreds of volunteer developers...' 'Target platforms are both the desktop as well embedded devices.' You don't need 'both' AND 'as well'. ___ Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 7p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: gnome app pages (was confusingly Gnome Software Map)
--- Gergely Nagy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2006-08-05 at 22:54 +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Joachim Noreiko --- Gergely Nagy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see wgo/apps/ page as an about box on steroids. It would be _the_ pace to go to find out some basic info about a gnome app. That's a good way of putting it :) Material that is currently in wgo/projects that is more aimed at developers should go on live.g.o, or whatever lgo turns into. Disagree. A core function of our web presence is attracting contributors and letting people know that the power of Free Software can be theirs, too. We should have how to get involved information on these pages. While this is globally true, the aim for wgo is to provide good entry points. Note that library.gnome.org (i think Joachim meant that instead of live.gnome.org) will be part of our web presence. I think a how to get involved link will suffice on these pages (garnished by an inviting sentence or paragraph of course :)... Actually, I did mean live.g.o Suppose I am a potential developer, interested in Nautilus. I need to be directed towards pages that tell me... - who is currently working on nautilus - how to communicate with them (mailing list, irc) - what's in the development version - what is being plannned for the future -- the roadmap basically - what are the current open tasks - how to get my hands on source code That's all too much technical detail for wgo, and it will detract from pages aimed at users. Currently, this information is partly on wgo/projects, and partly on live.g.o Where should it go? library.g.o is not the place for it -- that's for documentation. live.g.o is ugly, both visually and with its WikiWords. I agree with Shaun who said (somewhere) that it's great to use as a collective notepad, but we need something more. So that's either a projects.g.o, or a developer.g.o reborn from its ashes -- the name is a minor detail. Of course, a page on wgo about Nautilus would have a big link leading on to this developer space. ___ All new Yahoo! Mail The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
Re: WGO : GNOME Software Map
--- Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we need to get beyond the idea of software map or projects and start thinking about how we can best serve the needs of our users - and our software maintainers! Some things that we should think about can not even be boiled down to cvs or bugzilla module name (and note that both of those can be terribly inconsistent with what users know the software as), bigger stuff like the desktop experience... The current project pages are a sort of orthogonal slice through gnome -- you have a front page aimed at everybody, some screenshots, a download/how to get page (which is sort of aimed at users, except most users got all of our software installed by their distro, no?), and then pages aimed at new and existing developers. Along similar lines to what Jeff says, I think we have to rip this apart. On www.gnome.org we want to provide an overview of the software we offer. On developer.gnome.org (or whatever it becomes after it rises from the ashes) we want pages aimed at developers. ___ All new Yahoo! Mail The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
www.gnome.org - content, scope, structure
Hi everyone :) I've signed up for two of the goals for 2.16, because they're closely related: * Define the content and scope of www.gnome.org * Define a clear structure for www.gnome.org So... before I willy-nilly wade into the draft [1] and play about with it, what are everybody's thoughts on this? What should wgo provide to a visitor? It's our shopfront -- we should be able to attract a curious passer-by, and welcome in regular visitors. Newcomers should be able to discover what gnome is, what it can do for them, and how they can get it. Regulars should be able to get major news on gnome (releases, maybe previews of what developers are working on), and be pointed on to more specialized parts of the site: funky artwork for their gnome, more gnome apps, gnome documentation, support forums, etc. If I might share a personal anecdote: several years ago I heard about gnome and I visited the site. What I saw looked very interesting, but I left unable to answer two questions: What actually *is* gnome -- is it an OS, or what? Assuming I want gnome, what do I need and what do I do? To be fair, I looked up the term 'desktop environment' on Wikipedia, and I *still* didn't understand it. We're in the slightly tricky situation of trying to sell something that most people don't understand. Anyway, I'm starting to get too much into the specifics of what should be on an 'About gnome' page. So over to you :) [1] http://live.gnome.org/GnomeWeb/NewWgoStructure ___ Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html -- marketing-list mailing list marketing-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
