Re: [[email protected]: [David Neary]RE: MP3 licensing]

2005-02-02 Thread Luis Villa
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:23:03 -0600, J.B. Nicholson-Owens
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> David Neary wrote:
> > So, officially, although this is not stated anywhere on their site,
> > they allow non-commercial use.
> 
> It is stated on their website.  Read
> http://mp3licensing.com/help/enduser.html for the following information:
> 
> > Do you license mp3/mp3PRO software to end users?
> >
> > No. We license mp3/mp3PRO software and patents to developers and
> > manufacturers of software applications and hardware devices.
> 
> There is no license fee for iPod use or Winamp use, for example.  But
> Apple (in the case of iPods) had to pay a hardware MP3 decoder fee.  And
> AOL (or whomever distributes Winamp) had to pay a fee for that "PC
> Software Application" (to use the language Thomson/Fraunhofer uses).
> 
> If Ubuntu were to distribute an MP3 player program to an American,
> Ubuntu would be distributing non-free software to that American.  That
> American can run the program to play MP3s, but they cannot share that
> program with their friends and neighbors without first paying a patent
> fee (there are per-unit and one-time fees for "PC Software
> Applications").  There continues to be a conflict between free software
> and American patent law because in America (and some other countries)
> software patents exist.
> 
> This is why one cannot focus on providing complete compatibility with
> the outside world and simultaneously provide free software.

So... I'm as big a free software bigot as anyone; I've changed GNOME
press releases and websites to say GNU/Linux and Free Software instead
of Open Source, and I refuse to buy an ipod or use mp3 personally.
[I'll admit that I have succumbed to flash.]

But this discussion is not productive- we're going to lean towards
providing open formats ourselves, and we're going to ship whatever
ubuntu (or whatever other liveCD we base on) ships in terms of
decoders, and that is basically the end of the discussion. If you want
to continue to argue the details of the legality of it, talk to
ubuntu; it you want to debate the philosophy of it, /dev/null is
probably most appropriate.

Luis
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Re: [[email protected]: [David Neary]RE: MP3 licensing]

2005-02-02 Thread J.B. Nicholson-Owens
David Neary wrote:
So, officially, although this is not stated anywhere on their site,
they allow non-commercial use.
It is stated on their website.  Read
http://mp3licensing.com/help/enduser.html for the following information:
Do you license mp3/mp3PRO software to end users?
No. We license mp3/mp3PRO software and patents to developers and
manufacturers of software applications and hardware devices.
There is no license fee for iPod use or Winamp use, for example.  But 
Apple (in the case of iPods) had to pay a hardware MP3 decoder fee.  And 
AOL (or whomever distributes Winamp) had to pay a fee for that "PC 
Software Application" (to use the language Thomson/Fraunhofer uses).

If Ubuntu were to distribute an MP3 player program to an American,
Ubuntu would be distributing non-free software to that American.  That
American can run the program to play MP3s, but they cannot share that
program with their friends and neighbors without first paying a patent
fee (there are per-unit and one-time fees for "PC Software
Applications").  There continues to be a conflict between free software
and American patent law because in America (and some other countries)
software patents exist.
This is why one cannot focus on providing complete compatibility with
the outside world and simultaneously provide free software.
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Re: [[email protected]: [David Neary]RE: MP3 licensing]

2005-02-02 Thread David Neary
Hi,

Luis Villa wrote:
> (1) it doesn't really matter what we think, mostly it matters what the
> distro creator thinks. In this case, assuming we go with Ubuntu, the
> answer appears to be 'yes, we can.'
> 
> (2) I wouldn't object to a directory on the desktop with a title of
> some sort like 'legacy files' or 'compatibility demo files', but I'd
> like the primary focus of our content and demos to be about free
> software and open formats.

I agree wholeheartedly. I don't want to make your job any harder.
I do think it would be a little uncomfortable if some livecd user
did try to play an mp3 and it didn't work.

I agree that the primary focus should be on free, open formats
and software. I disagree that we should hobble software if we
don't have to.

Cheers,
Dave.

-- 
David Neary,
Lyon, France
   E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CV: http://dneary.free.fr/CV/
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Re: [[email protected]: [David Neary]RE: MP3 licensing]

2005-02-02 Thread Luis Villa
(1) it doesn't really matter what we think, mostly it matters what the
distro creator thinks. In this case, assuming we go with Ubuntu, the
answer appears to be 'yes, we can.'

(2) I wouldn't object to a directory on the desktop with a title of
some sort like 'legacy files' or 'compatibility demo files', but I'd
like the primary focus of our content and demos to be about free
software and open formats.

Luis


On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 19:35:06 +0100, David Neary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I mailed mp3licensing.com today to get an official position (and
> to ask whether they'd grant a permanent, irrevocable licence for
> GPL or LGPL implementations of the codecs. I got this answer.
> 
> So, officially, although this is not stated anywhere on their
> site, they allow non-commercial use.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave.
> 
> - Forwarded message from Caldwell Rocky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -
> 
> Subject: [David Neary]RE: MP3 licensing
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:07:16 -0800
> From: Caldwell Rocky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  Dear David,
> 
> Thanks for contacting mp3 Licensing.
> 
> You are asking legal questions, and we do not provide legal advice.
> 
> However, obviously, mp3 implementations by GPL and LGPL software use the
> patents developed by Frauhofer and Thomson. Without the patents, there
> would be no GPL or LGPL mp3 software.
> 
> Usage of any patents is determined by the patent holders.
> 
> We are not prepared to issue and irrevocable, free patent license to GPL
> and LGPL software using our patents. We do allow non-commerical use of
> our patents.  However, the GPL and LGPL software allow onward
> distribution that can easily be non-commercial.
> 
> As the LAME software page states, "Using the LAME encoding engine (or
> other mp3 encoding technology) in your software may require a patent
> license in some countries."
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Rocky Caldwell
> 
> Director, mp3 Licensing
> 
> Thomson Patents and LIcensing
> 
> RB Courtyard, Suite 100
> 16935 W. Bernardo Drive
> Rancho Bernardo, CA 92127
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> www.mp3licensing.com
> Thomson (Euronext Paris: 18453; NYSE: TMS) provides end-to-end solutions
> (technologies, equipment and services) to the entertainment industries.
> To advance and enable the digital media transition, Thomson has four
> principal divisions: Content and Networks, Consumer Products,
> Components, and Licensing. The company distributes its products under
> the Technicolor, Grass Valley, THOMSON and RCA brand names.
> For more information: www.thomson.net
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: David Neary [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Neary
> Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 1:58 AM
> To: *SAND MP3 Info
> Subject: MP3 licensing
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Would you mind explaining to me the implications of your patent claims
> on Free Software applications, please?
> 
> Do free software or open source applications which include an MP3
> decoder or encoder require an MP3 license? In this situation, what
> licensing fees are applicable? What jurisdictions are governed by these
> patents?
> 
> Would you be prepared to issue an irrevocable, free patent license to
> GPL and LGPL software implementing the MP3 codec?
> 
> I am unfamiliar with the legal issues involved, being European, but I
> would like to know more about your patent claims, and how they impact
> software I work on and with.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave Neary.
> 
> --
> David Neary,
> Lyon, France
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> - End forwarded message -
> 
> --
> David Neary,
> Lyon, France
>E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> CV: http://dneary.free.fr/CV/
> --
> marketing-list mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing-list
>
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[[email protected]: [David Neary]RE: MP3 licensing]

2005-02-02 Thread David Neary
Hi all,

I mailed mp3licensing.com today to get an official position (and
to ask whether they'd grant a permanent, irrevocable licence for
GPL or LGPL implementations of the codecs. I got this answer.

So, officially, although this is not stated anywhere on their
site, they allow non-commercial use.

Cheers,
Dave.

- Forwarded message from Caldwell Rocky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

Subject: [David Neary]RE: MP3 licensing
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:07:16 -0800
From: Caldwell Rocky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Dear David,

Thanks for contacting mp3 Licensing.

You are asking legal questions, and we do not provide legal advice.

However, obviously, mp3 implementations by GPL and LGPL software use the
patents developed by Frauhofer and Thomson. Without the patents, there
would be no GPL or LGPL mp3 software.

Usage of any patents is determined by the patent holders.

We are not prepared to issue and irrevocable, free patent license to GPL
and LGPL software using our patents. We do allow non-commerical use of
our patents.  However, the GPL and LGPL software allow onward
distribution that can easily be non-commercial. 

As the LAME software page states, "Using the LAME encoding engine (or
other mp3 encoding technology) in your software may require a patent
license in some countries."

Regards,

Rocky Caldwell 

Director, mp3 Licensing 

Thomson Patents and LIcensing 

RB Courtyard, Suite 100 
16935 W. Bernardo Drive 
Rancho Bernardo, CA 92127 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.mp3licensing.com
Thomson (Euronext Paris: 18453; NYSE: TMS) provides end-to-end solutions
(technologies, equipment and services) to the entertainment industries.
To advance and enable the digital media transition, Thomson has four
principal divisions: Content and Networks, Consumer Products,
Components, and Licensing. The company distributes its products under
the Technicolor, Grass Valley, THOMSON and RCA brand names.
For more information: www.thomson.net





-Original Message-
From: David Neary [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Neary
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 1:58 AM
To: *SAND MP3 Info
Subject: MP3 licensing


Hi,

Would you mind explaining to me the implications of your patent claims
on Free Software applications, please?

Do free software or open source applications which include an MP3
decoder or encoder require an MP3 license? In this situation, what
licensing fees are applicable? What jurisdictions are governed by these
patents? 

Would you be prepared to issue an irrevocable, free patent license to
GPL and LGPL software implementing the MP3 codec?

I am unfamiliar with the legal issues involved, being European, but I
would like to know more about your patent claims, and how they impact
software I work on and with.

Regards,
Dave Neary.

-- 
David Neary,
Lyon, France
   E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


- End forwarded message -

-- 
David Neary,
Lyon, France
   E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CV: http://dneary.free.fr/CV/
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