Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Sure, Louis. I was not aware of this. I will take this into account in the future. Am 20.03.2020 um 15:11 schrieb Louis Proyect via Marxism: POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Reminder. We try to limit posts to six a day. I understand that this coronavirus stuff is urgent, but I have already seen arguments being repeated. I was about to say something myself earlier but realized that I would only be repeating myself. Okay? _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/aktiv%40rkob.net -- Revolutionär-Kommunistische Organisation BEFREIUNG (Österreichische Sektion der RCIT, www.thecommunists.net) www.rkob.net ak...@rkob.net Tel./SMS/WhatsApp/Telegram: +43-650-4068314 -- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 3/20/20 10:11 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: Reminder. We try to limit posts to six a day. I should have written six a day per subscriber. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Louis, that's not my experience. Instead of being connected to a page that asks permission to go to the website it deems suspicious, I always get a Cisco Security page that simply says "404 Bad Request". I have to use google to get to the actual page. On 6 Sep 2019 at 22:06, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: > > A reminder. > > When you see that scary "suspicious message" thing, it only means > that > the malware-protection system at U. of Utah has issued a "warning". > It > is not a real problem since the target links are ALWAYS legitimate. > All > you need to is click the U. of Utah-generated link and then you will > be > connected to a page that asks your permission to go to the website > it > deemed suspicious. A bit of a hassle but only 15 seconds worth. > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/jgreen%40communistvoice. > org --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Perhaps you meant me, J.Masko? I was unaware of this as I mostly lurk. Ty On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 5:25 AM Louis Proyect via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > I just purged a number of messages from A. Stewart and J. Pasco from the > moderator's queue because they had more than 3 recipients. In the > future, please stay within 3 recipients if you want to avoid being held > in a moderator's queue. > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/mediacrusher%40gmail.com > -- J.A. Masko "The challenge of modernity is to live without illusions and without becoming disillusioned." Antonio Gramsci. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Will do. This was the result of my using email via the phone, with which I'm not familiar (nor particularly happy). On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 8:25 AM Louis Proyect via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > I just purged a number of messages from A. Stewart and J. Pasco from the > moderator's queue because they had more than 3 recipients. In the > future, please stay within 3 recipients if you want to avoid being held > in a moderator's queue. > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/markalause%40gmail.com > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: https://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Lou Wrote: This thread on Corbyn et al is getting repetitious. I suggest that comrades compose a final statement on it and then we move on. I hear what you are saying Lou but it was good to see the list expand beyond Trump and the ME. I had started something last night on the evil of antisemitism but did not feel that I had much to offer beyond what was canvassed in the thread. I was interested in your comments (negative) about Corbyn's advisor Seamus Milne. He seems though to have a high reputation among the Novara Media mob whom I follow. What did interest me was that in the middle of all the fracas Corbyn pulled off what was by all accounts his best parliamentary performance at PMQT. Significantly he chose to attack the Tory Government around their treatment of the mentally ill. For me that indicates the central weakness of the Right in the Tory and in the Labour Party at this juncture. They have no good news to give. Ditto for Australia BTW. Accordingly, they can only offer the politics of distraction. But the politics of distraction does not "put food on the family" as George Bush might have said. I suspect in terms of the UK that outside the MSM and the Westminster Political caste no one gives much of a damn about a mural -vile and all as it absolutely was. If I am correct the local election on May 3rd will prove a watershed when the Tories suffer a well deserved political thrashing. What then will the Right of Labour do? Apparently they call themselves the "kamikazes". Not the most hegemonic of nicknames I would have thought. Will they split from the Party? If they do so their careers will end in inglorious ignominy. The SDP split in 1981 took place and was part of the combative phase of neoliberalism. While he was at the Treasury in 1970 the Friedmanites in the Bank of England were already beginning to influence Jenkins, the SDP leader. The primary intent of the SDP split was to defeat Bennism and it succeeded in that. But we are in a different phase now. Neoliberalism is no longer normative and has instead entered a phase of irrational punitive doubling down. If the Blairites split now their fate would even be worse than that of Roy Jenkins and co. So the UK remains for me the fulcrum of my hopes for a better world. And Corbyn seems to be still in the game comradely Garyn On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 3:58 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > This thread on Corbyn et al is getting repetitious. I suggest that > comrades compose a final statement on it and then we move on. > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/opt > ions/marxism/gary.maclennan1%40gmail.com > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 10/17/16 8:34 AM, Paddy Hackett wrote: Hi Louis Please inform me as to how I broke the list rules. Not aware of having broken any. To save bandwidth I advise that such postings, as this one of yours, be sent privately. Take Care Paddy Hackett The Marxism list was created in 1998 not as a platform for people to call for the need for socialism (or communism). To even waste bandwidth issuing such a call indicates to me that you don't understand why it was created. It was created for experienced Marxists to discuss the finer points of Marxist theory and strategy/tactics. By analogy, a mailing list on psychotherapy geared to professionals would not need a subscriber posting messages to the effect that neurosis is a bad thing. I am making this public to the list because I am afraid that a private message to you would be a waste of time since you seem to be persistent in posting these "we need communism" type emails. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Hi Louis Hi Louis Please inform me as to how I broke the list rules. Not aware of having broken any. To save bandwidth I advise that such postings, as this one of yours, be sent privately. Take Care Paddy Hackett On 17 Oct 2016 13:03, "Louis Proyect via Marxism" < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > On 10/17/16 7:21 AM, Paddy Hackett via Marxism wrote: > >> I don't share the view that the armed opposition in Syria is serving the >> interests of the Syrian masses. >> > > Paddy, this is ridiculous. You have to remember that Marxmail has over > 1500 subscribers worldwide anxious to get correspondence from the list that > has useful and concrete analysis about the class struggle. Sending a > message to the list to the effect that Syria (or Ireland) needs a socialist > revolution is a waste of bandwidth since it is essentially preaching to the > choir. Don't do it again. > > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/opt > ions/marxism/paraichackett%40gmail.com > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * A simpler explanation than Stalinism is that it's simply a variation of the stupidities the Clinton camp peddles about how anyone not supporter her is anti-female, racist and secretly working for Trump. Every election it seems to me that the civic consumers of one or the other brand of corporate rationalizers present escalating demonstrations of their voluntary willingness to make outrageous and plainly idiotic statements. One hates to see people who are otherwise radicals sucked into it, because there's no way to have a rational discourse when the contest is about proving the strength of your feelings with a willines to be irrational. ML _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note #2
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I believe the exact quote was "Its no accident that US Greens turn out to be big supporters of fascism worldwide. In my next blog post I will show how fascist Trump supporters are warming up to Jill." That doesn't sound like saying tolerance or cluelessness about fascism. It sounds like Clay was straight up saying Greens are pro-fascist. I remember when I (mistakenly) suggested that another member of this forum was reblogging stuff from a fascist Ukrainian group, I was nearly banned and I had to apologize to that member and so on. Clay suggested that those of us who are Green Party people -- including Louis (and Andrew, and me, and I suspect a significant chunk of this list) are "big supporters of fascism worldwide". Maybe that's not what he meant, but I don't know what kind of lefty list-serv would tolerate those sorts of accusations in general. I think it is obvious that Clay misspoke regardless of how anyone feels about Louis' moderating policies. - Amith On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Jeff via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > I really don't have any time to be writing this, but I have to strongly > object to Louis' emotionally-driven action against Clay, and indeed the > entire capricious manner in which decisions are made. Possibly this doesn't > have to do so much with Louis himself, as having essentially a dictator in > place to make such decisions on a whim, which is one reason that dictators > (like Gaddifi, come to think of it) are a bad idea, even when they start > out good. I'd be embarrassed for other people to know that I'm on an email > list in which I find such GOOD politics but gets run in a way that could > only remind one of the very systems that we are trying to bring down and > bury in the dustbin of history. > > I'm sure Louis genuinely felt that Clay's words amounted to an "amalgam" > between him and fascism, but that's only because he worked himself up into > a frenzy rather than trying to understand what Clay was saying. And then 9 > minutes after making an ultimatum, he just said "fuck it" and pushed the > nuclear button on him. I think Louis needs to attend an anger management > workshop. Or otherwise to join the black-block and direct his anger against > deserving targets. I just can't believe someone can stand for the pinnacle > of democracy that communism is, and abuse their power in such a way. > > When Clay made the poorly qualified statement that "Its no accident that > US Greens turn out to be big supporters of fascism worldwide." he was only > saying EXACTLY what people on this list -- very much including Louis > himself! -- have been saying: that the bulk of the left (Jill Stein's fans > in this case) is frequently comfortable supporting fascists (or far-right) > such as Assad and Putin. Not because they ARE fascists, but because they > can't perceive the difference between left and right "anti-imperialism." Of > course I and Clay are allied to those leftists regardless, but their > leftism becomes useless when it is so extremely misdirected, sometimes > literally causing more harm than good. That's the same thing most of us > (not Andrew Stewart, I'm afraid) have been crying out about, and if Louis > had taken a minute to get Clay's clarification it would have been clear he > certainly was not calling any leftist a fascist. Just clueless. > > Louis should apologize to Clay for loosing his temper and resub him. > Period. > > - Jeff > > > P.S. Clay: your message is NOT falling on deaf ears! But it's being > drowned out by those who can't listen. > > > > >> On 10/5/16 2:59 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: >> >>> >>> Clay, the next time you make this kind of outrageous amalgam between >>> Marxmail subscribers like me who back Jill Stein and fascism, I will >>> unsub you. Once upon a time you were a constructive member of the list. >>> No matter how hard you try, people are not buying your Democratic Party >>> sermons. You have turned into a first-class troll and just about >>> outstayed your welcome. In fact I invite you to unsub yourself because I >>> doubt that anything can dissuade you from the course you are on. In the >>> 18 years I have been moderating this list, I have learned to detect when >>> people have written it off. You are right up there with the worst. >>> >> >> >> Just after posting this, I
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note #2
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I really don't have any time to be writing this, but I have to strongly object to Louis' emotionally-driven action against Clay, and indeed the entire capricious manner in which decisions are made. Possibly this doesn't have to do so much with Louis himself, as having essentially a dictator in place to make such decisions on a whim, which is one reason that dictators (like Gaddifi, come to think of it) are a bad idea, even when they start out good. I'd be embarrassed for other people to know that I'm on an email list in which I find such GOOD politics but gets run in a way that could only remind one of the very systems that we are trying to bring down and bury in the dustbin of history. I'm sure Louis genuinely felt that Clay's words amounted to an "amalgam" between him and fascism, but that's only because he worked himself up into a frenzy rather than trying to understand what Clay was saying. And then 9 minutes after making an ultimatum, he just said "fuck it" and pushed the nuclear button on him. I think Louis needs to attend an anger management workshop. Or otherwise to join the black-block and direct his anger against deserving targets. I just can't believe someone can stand for the pinnacle of democracy that communism is, and abuse their power in such a way. When Clay made the poorly qualified statement that "Its no accident that US Greens turn out to be big supporters of fascism worldwide." he was only saying EXACTLY what people on this list -- very much including Louis himself! -- have been saying: that the bulk of the left (Jill Stein's fans in this case) is frequently comfortable supporting fascists (or far-right) such as Assad and Putin. Not because they ARE fascists, but because they can't perceive the difference between left and right "anti-imperialism." Of course I and Clay are allied to those leftists regardless, but their leftism becomes useless when it is so extremely misdirected, sometimes literally causing more harm than good. That's the same thing most of us (not Andrew Stewart, I'm afraid) have been crying out about, and if Louis had taken a minute to get Clay's clarification it would have been clear he certainly was not calling any leftist a fascist. Just clueless. Louis should apologize to Clay for loosing his temper and resub him. Period. - Jeff P.S. Clay: your message is NOT falling on deaf ears! But it's being drowned out by those who can't listen. On 10/5/16 2:59 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: Clay, the next time you make this kind of outrageous amalgam between Marxmail subscribers like me who back Jill Stein and fascism, I will unsub you. Once upon a time you were a constructive member of the list. No matter how hard you try, people are not buying your Democratic Party sermons. You have turned into a first-class troll and just about outstayed your welcome. In fact I invite you to unsub yourself because I doubt that anything can dissuade you from the course you are on. In the 18 years I have been moderating this list, I have learned to detect when people have written it off. You are right up there with the worst. Just after posting this, I realized that there is no point retaining Clay Claiborne on Marxmail and unsubbed him. 3 months of his provocations were tolerated by me because he hadn't caused problems in the past. I guess when some people can't accept the fact that their message is falling on deaf ears, they only raise their voice. But they'd better figure out whether we are deaf before going on and on. My ears are pretty good even though I have serious eye problems. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note #2
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * In behalf of the lurker community, Thank You! - Bill - Louis Proyect wrote... Just after posting this, I realized that there is no point retaining Clay Claiborne on Marxmail and unsubbed him. 3 months of his provocations were tolerated by me because he hadn't caused problems in the past. I guess when some people can't accept the fact that their message is falling on deaf ears, they only raise their voice. But they'd better figure out whether we are deaf before going on and on. My ears are pretty good even though I have serious eye problems. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note #2
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 10/5/16 2:59 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: Clay, the next time you make this kind of outrageous amalgam between Marxmail subscribers like me who back Jill Stein and fascism, I will unsub you. Once upon a time you were a constructive member of the list. No matter how hard you try, people are not buying your Democratic Party sermons. You have turned into a first-class troll and just about outstayed your welcome. In fact I invite you to unsub yourself because I doubt that anything can dissuade you from the course you are on. In the 18 years I have been moderating this list, I have learned to detect when people have written it off. You are right up there with the worst. Just after posting this, I realized that there is no point retaining Clay Claiborne on Marxmail and unsubbed him. 3 months of his provocations were tolerated by me because he hadn't caused problems in the past. I guess when some people can't accept the fact that their message is falling on deaf ears, they only raise their voice. But they'd better figure out whether we are deaf before going on and on. My ears are pretty good even though I have serious eye problems. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Jeff can have "the last word," I am not engaging in this nonsense any further. I'm more than happy to discuss the actua substance of Nada Elia's article. On Friday, April 29, 2016, Louis Proyect via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > On 4/29/16 12:58 PM, Jeff via Marxism wrote: > >> What's more, the day's almost over here and I have plans >> for the evening, so I guess you're saying that Amith gets the last word on >> the subject. >> > > Where are you? In Holland? Just give yourself another 24 hours starting > now and then that's that. > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com > -- - Amith _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Jeff wrote: > You can't just start a discussion > and then shut it down when it's starting > to get to the point. Jeff, I agree with everything you've said about Alison Weir and If Americans Knew (and I agreed with DW's post and Louis' comment that "Allison Weir is a person whose views are shaped by the general milieu, one that is not favorable to a class analysis"), but your comment above is wrong: It's Louis' list, and he can do whatever he wants. > Now if I'm wrong, I have the right to view > replies to my mistakes so that I can correct > my mistakes. I, like all, am > here to learn The discussion can be continued off of the list, but I doubt there's much that can be added. I think Louis was wrong to call you a "tiresome troll" (your posts have been thoughtful and substantive), but the discussion has become repetitive. Can't we agree on that and drop the subject for now? (I suspect Alison Weir and If Americans Knew will come up again in a different context, and perhaps then there will be something new to say.) --Kevin _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * At 12:47 29-04-16 -0400, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: > >On 4/29/16 11:52 AM, Jeff via Marxism wrote: >> You can't just start a discussion >> and then shut it down when it's starting to get to the point > >Of course I can. Feel free to write whatever you want but tomorrow we >move on. That's not ok, for all the reasons I listed before which you clipped (but I restored below). What's more, the day's almost over here and I have plans for the evening, so I guess you're saying that Amith gets the last word on the subject. You yourself made some brief but sharp remarks on the subject (essentially denying what I thought I proved in my post) so you should either be willing to defend that, retract your erroneous position, or admit that you're unsure. If you are unsure, then you should be soliciting additional information and discussion, not preventing it. Pretending the issue doesn't exist on this list does nothing to resolve the issue among the other 99% of the left who face the same issues. - Jeff At 17:52 29-04-16 +0200, Jeff via Marxism wrote: > >At 11:29 29-04-16 -0400, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: >> >>I made a mistake by getting into the Allison Weir question. We spent far >>too much time on that originally > >Wait a minute! I spent considerable time compiling the information that, >yes, I should have posted earlier when YOU permitted a "guest post" on your >blog unjustly attacking the very organizations that brought the problem >with her and her organizations to light. You can't just start a discussion >and then shut it down when it's starting to get to the point. According to >a leading and prolific poster on this list, all that I have written about >her is wrong or misleading. Now if I'm wrong, I have the right to view >replies to my mistakes so that I can correct my mistakes. I, like all, am >here to learn (FYI I am not involved in any party that has a stake in the >questions). > >So let us now "learn" why all the facts I compiled shouldn't justify the >positions reached by Jewish Voice for Peace, the US Campaign to End the >Israeli Occupation, and Stanford Students for Justice in Palestine. >Obviously this isn't an unimportant discussion nor is it going away. If we >have a fundamental disagreement about whether the far-right should be >involved in Palestine solidarity, then we need to know that. But the post I >was directly addressing asked for evidence of any such thing, I provided >that evidence, and I expect a reply from any and all concerned quarters. >Including the moderator whose (tentative?) position on right-wing >involvement in support of Palestine is so contrary to his admirable >positions regarding the right in Russia, the Ukraine, Syria, etc. that I >can barely believe I'm talking to the same person. > >- Jeff _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 4/29/16 11:52 AM, Jeff via Marxism wrote: You can't just start a discussion and then shut it down when it's starting to get to the point Of course I can. Feel free to write whatever you want but tomorrow we move on. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * At 11:29 29-04-16 -0400, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: > >I made a mistake by getting into the Allison Weir question. We spent far >too much time on that originally Wait a minute! I spent considerable time compiling the information that, yes, I should have posted earlier when YOU permitted a "guest post" on your blog unjustly attacking the very organizations that brought the problem with her and her organizations to light. You can't just start a discussion and then shut it down when it's starting to get to the point. According to a leading and prolific poster on this list, all that I have written about her is wrong or misleading. Now if I'm wrong, I have the right to view replies to my mistakes so that I can correct my mistakes. I, like all, am here to learn (FYI I am not involved in any party that has a stake in the questions). So let us now "learn" why all the facts I compiled shouldn't justify the positions reached by Jewish Voice for Peace, the US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation, and Stanford Students for Justice in Palestine. Obviously this isn't an unimportant discussion nor is it going away. If we have a fundamental disagreement about whether the far-right should be involved in Palestine solidarity, then we need to know that. But the post I was directly addressing asked for evidence of any such thing, I provided that evidence, and I expect a reply from any and all concerned quarters. Including the moderator whose (tentative?) position on right-wing involvement in support of Palestine is so contrary to his admirable positions regarding the right in Russia, the Ukraine, Syria, etc. that I can barely believe I'm talking to the same person. - Jeff _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * He should have been removed for his rape apologia! On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > POSTING RULES & NOTES > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > * > > Lueko has been removed from the list for ignoring my instructions to cease > posting about Cologne. > _ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/dmozart1756%40gmail.com > _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * Having been subjected face to face to the raving, incoherent spittle-laced yelling of JIm Robertson, on one occasion, in those long lost 1960's, and having been physically attacked on another occasion decades later by a Spartacist League member, Creegan [sp?] seems to me a pussycat in comparison. That said, perhaps a red line is whether or not anyone uses a personal insult, grounds for removal from any discussion group. If someone wishes to write that some political view of mine is stupid, or will lead inevitably to a reformist disaster, or is an accommodation to the swamp of petite bourgeois veganism, fair enough. That’s a discussion. From time to time I have expressed political views that were stupid. Who has not? Those who bluntly pointed that out did me a service, painful as it was at the time. If someone calls me stupid, or says I am a reformist disaster, or calls me a petite bourgeois veganist, that's over the line. Name calling is over the line in any discussion group. One warning would be sufficient. Of course it is the option of the creator of a discussion group to set what limits seem reasonable and proper. T -Original Message- From: Mark Lause via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Jul 19, 2015 11:49 AM To: Thomas F Barton thomasfbar...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The list isn't a party or a movement body. Yes, there are inconsistencies and injustices result. The fact of the matter has always been that this is Louis' operation. That has been the most functional solution to having an ongoing 24/7 flame war over who should or shouldn't be here. There simply exists no mechanism for a democratic email list, Much less a democratic-centralist email list. Or does someone have an alternative that they've not implemented or are keeping secret? In this case, a second chance would not be amiss, particularly if there's a general acknowledgement of the remote possibility that the working class can be betrayed by people trying to figure out the situation in Greece in an email discussion. Solidarity! Mark L. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/thomasfbarton%40earthlink.net _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The list isn't a party or a movement body. Yes, there are inconsistencies and injustices result. The fact of the matter has always been that this is Louis' operation. That has been the most functional solution to having an ongoing 24/7 flame war over who should or shouldn't be here. There simply exists no mechanism for a democratic email list, Much less a democratic-centralist email list. Or does someone have an alternative that they've not implemented or are keeping secret? In this case, a second chance would not be amiss, particularly if there's a general acknowledgement of the remote possibility that the working class can be betrayed by people trying to figure out the situation in Greece in an email discussion. Solidarity! Mark L. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * You're booting Jim for doing class analysis? That's fucked up. To be precise, that's Stalinism. On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/18/15 11:55 AM, James Creegan via Marxism wrote: I make this prediction because I think that the left-reformism you speak of, more than just a set of mistaken ideas, is closer to a class ideology based upon the position of middling layers (small business people, professionals of various kinds, union bureaucrats and party politicians) in capitalist society. And it is, unfortunately, these layers that are most prominent in the Western left today. Let Jim Creegan play scratch to gangrene somewhere else. I really don't listen to someone play-act Leon Trotsky versus James Burnham here. He is getting the boot. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * When push comes to shove, it's always Louis's list. Unsub me. On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote: On 7/18/15 4:00 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote: You're booting Jim for doing class analysis? That's fucked up. To be precise, that's Stalinism. No, it's not. This is not a party. I don't collect dues or ask people to sell a stupid newspaper at plant gates 6am in the morning. It is a mailing list that I have the right to edit, to create boundaries around just like any other publication, print or electronic. I don't tend to remove people from the list unless I decide that their purpose here is only to do class analysis as you put it. I had 11 years of this kind of class analysis in the Trotskyist movement and that was enough for me. If anybody wants to set up a mailing list where you can blather on about the petty-bourgeoisie, contact me privately and I'll help you get started. This list has been around for 17 years and has over 1500 subscribers. If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it is that is not the place to do Leon Trotsky imitations. Here's a reminder from the Marxmail website subscription page for anybody tempted to repeat the Cannon-Shachtman debate: MODERATION PRINCIPLES: The Marxism mailing list is extremely permissive. There are a couple of things that are frowned upon strongly. If you come to the list with the attitude that you are a true Bolshevik, who needs to convert 'Mensheviks' to your beliefs, you will be unsubbed. Members of self-declared vanguard parties who can adjust to the tolerant atmosphere of the list are more than welcome, since they usually bring with them years of Marxist study and political experience. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On Jul 18, 2015, at 4:18 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: When push comes to shove, it's always Louis's list. Unsub me. It always has to be Louis’ list, because he’s incapable of functioning in a broader mileu over a sustained period of time. He would be quickly chewed up in a trade union, workers’ party or other mass organization where his belligerent egotism would not be tolerated for very long. And he claims to be building an inclusive, non-sectarian left in the USA! How preposterously self-deluding can you get? I thought the exchange between Creegan and Karadjis was thoughtful and respectful on both sides. I’ve had my differences with both of them and others on the list over the past decade, but would happily call them comrades and function collectively with them in the same party. Not so Proyect, whose first instinct is to denounce. Most recently, he’s had the colossal gall to denounce those who have not followed him across the aisle to the austerian side as ideological purists and wild-eyed proponents of a new revolutionary international. I hope I’m wrong, but this is the kind of language I associate with those embarking, without fully realizing it, on that well-trodden path of many former leftists. I can’t abide petty martinets. For all its merits and the presence of good, serious people who subscribe to it, leaving this iist is not, after all, like leaving the old mass parties of the left. Unsub me also. On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote: On 7/18/15 4:00 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote: You're booting Jim for doing class analysis? That's fucked up. To be precise, that's Stalinism. No, it's not. This is not a party. I don't collect dues or ask people to sell a stupid newspaper at plant gates 6am in the morning. It is a mailing list that I have the right to edit, to create boundaries around just like any other publication, print or electronic. I don't tend to remove people from the list unless I decide that their purpose here is only to do class analysis as you put it. I had 11 years of this kind of class analysis in the Trotskyist movement and that was enough for me. If anybody wants to set up a mailing list where you can blather on about the petty-bourgeoisie, contact me privately and I'll help you get started. This list has been around for 17 years and has over 1500 subscribers. If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it is that is not the place to do Leon Trotsky imitations. Here's a reminder from the Marxmail website subscription page for anybody tempted to repeat the Cannon-Shachtman debate: MODERATION PRINCIPLES: The Marxism mailing list is extremely permissive. There are a couple of things that are frowned upon strongly. If you come to the list with the attitude that you are a true Bolshevik, who needs to convert 'Mensheviks' to your beliefs, you will be unsubbed. Members of self-declared vanguard parties who can adjust to the tolerant atmosphere of the list are more than welcome, since they usually bring with them years of Marxist study and political experience. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/marvgand2%40gmail.com _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/18/15 4:00 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote: You're booting Jim for doing class analysis? That's fucked up. To be precise, that's Stalinism. No, it's not. This is not a party. I don't collect dues or ask people to sell a stupid newspaper at plant gates 6am in the morning. It is a mailing list that I have the right to edit, to create boundaries around just like any other publication, print or electronic. I don't tend to remove people from the list unless I decide that their purpose here is only to do class analysis as you put it. I had 11 years of this kind of class analysis in the Trotskyist movement and that was enough for me. If anybody wants to set up a mailing list where you can blather on about the petty-bourgeoisie, contact me privately and I'll help you get started. This list has been around for 17 years and has over 1500 subscribers. If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it is that is not the place to do Leon Trotsky imitations. Here's a reminder from the Marxmail website subscription page for anybody tempted to repeat the Cannon-Shachtman debate: MODERATION PRINCIPLES: The Marxism mailing list is extremely permissive. There are a couple of things that are frowned upon strongly. If you come to the list with the attitude that you are a true Bolshevik, who needs to convert 'Mensheviks' to your beliefs, you will be unsubbed. Members of self-declared vanguard parties who can adjust to the tolerant atmosphere of the list are more than welcome, since they usually bring with them years of Marxist study and political experience. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * I thought that Michael K replied to Jim C with well-argued points and without rancor. Jim C answered in the same way. These are complex issues, and passions run deep. So perhaps Louis should reconsider giving Jim C the boot. Jim's position would surely not be one alien to Greek radicals, and some would surely agree with him. I might argue that his definition of class position is too pat and somewhat formulaic. But on the other hand, as Michael Lebowitz argues in his new book, The Socialist Imperative: From Gotha to Now, and he has consistently argued for years, as we participate in production, we produce not only goods and services but ourselves as well. So, and especially because the class position we are in has a great deal to do with that of our parents, it seems self-evident that whatever their intentions and character, those who come from highly educated professional families with high incomes are likely to follow in their parents' footsteps. They may be sympathetic to working p eople and radical in their writing and thinking, but this doesn't always translate into knowing what it is like to be a working person without such advantages, to really feel it. They also may well have an entire set of unexamined notions and emotions that buttress modes of being that take for granted what they have materially and make it seem crazy that they should ever have to give these things up. All of this can condition politics, even behind the back, so to speak, of such persons. Anyway, I often go off the deep end berating people, at least in my head, for not seeing that their life circumstances, including parental income, education, and employment, as well as their own income, education, and employment, shape what they believe and the political actions they are willing to take. But there is I think always some truth in what I say or think about this. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * the tolerant atmosphere of the listlmao On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Andrew Pollack via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * When push comes to shove, it's always Louis's list. Unsub me. On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Louis Proyect l...@panix.com wrote: On 7/18/15 4:00 PM, Andrew Pollack wrote: You're booting Jim for doing class analysis? That's fucked up. To be precise, that's Stalinism. No, it's not. This is not a party. I don't collect dues or ask people to sell a stupid newspaper at plant gates 6am in the morning. It is a mailing list that I have the right to edit, to create boundaries around just like any other publication, print or electronic. I don't tend to remove people from the list unless I decide that their purpose here is only to do class analysis as you put it. I had 11 years of this kind of class analysis in the Trotskyist movement and that was enough for me. If anybody wants to set up a mailing list where you can blather on about the petty-bourgeoisie, contact me privately and I'll help you get started. This list has been around for 17 years and has over 1500 subscribers. If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it is that is not the place to do Leon Trotsky imitations. Here's a reminder from the Marxmail website subscription page for anybody tempted to repeat the Cannon-Shachtman debate: MODERATION PRINCIPLES: The Marxism mailing list is extremely permissive. There are a couple of things that are frowned upon strongly. If you come to the list with the attitude that you are a true Bolshevik, who needs to convert 'Mensheviks' to your beliefs, you will be unsubbed. Members of self-declared vanguard parties who can adjust to the tolerant atmosphere of the list are more than welcome, since they usually bring with them years of Marxist study and political experience. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/amaral1871%40gmail.com -- Seek for food and clothing first, then the Kingdom of God shall be added unto you. Hegel, 1807 The class struggle, which is always present to a historian influenced by Marx, is a fight for the crude and material things without which no refined and spiritual things could exist. Nevertheless, it is not in the form of the spoils which fall to the victor that the latter make their presence felt in the class struggle. They manifest themselves in this struggle as courage, humor, cunning, and fortitude. They have retroactive force and will constantly call in question every victory, past and present, of the rulers. As flowers turn toward the sun, by dint of a secret heliotropism the past strives to turn toward that sun which is rising in the sky of history. A historical materialist must be aware of this most inconspicuous of all transformations. -Walter Benjamin, Spring, 1940 NYCSOCIALIST.ORG _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 7/18/15 4:27 PM, aaron s. amaral via Marxism wrote: the tolerant atmosphere of the listlmao From an ISO member, no less. Aaron, you will find a lot more POV's represented here than in the pages of your newspaper or at one of your conferences Furthermore, there were more ISO'ers who got the boot in the last two years from your group than were unsubbed from this mailing list over the past ten. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 01/03/2015 10:27 μμ, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote: The Nemtsov thread has run its course. Let's move on to other matters since Marxmail is not the proper forum for solving crimes, or speculating on the guilt or innocence of Vladimir Putin in Nemtsov's murder. Our emphasis is on class questions such as the role of Russia in world politics, something that can be determined by examining the evidence of its role in Ukraine, the treatment of Pussy Riot and gays, etc. Amen JA _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * So I obviously don't agree with Dan's opinion about CH, but I think that particular question is a legitimate one. How should Marxists, Muslim or not, view Mohamed as a historical figure? On Tuesday, January 13, 2015, Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote: POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 1/13/15 9:14 PM, Dan via Marxism wrote: ising 100 lashes if you don’t die of laughter. And what was Mohammed if not a fairly standard oriental primitive ? He was oriental. He was primitive. And he was fairly standard in his lust for power and domination, using religion and military might to murder, plunder, rape and conquer. A fairly standard dictator who would order mass executions and torture prisoners, but also forgive certain tribes who swore allegiance to him. This kind of crude and ignorant Islamophobic trash does not belong on the Marxism list. I am instructing Dan and anybody else tempted to send out a message like this in the future that it will lead to removal from the list. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/ options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com -- - Amith _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*
Dan is clearly a hopeless racist.
But as for Amith's important question, best I know of is Maxime Rodinson's
biography.
On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 10:12 PM, A.R. G via Marxism
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:
POSTING RULES NOTES
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*
So I obviously don't agree with Dan's opinion about CH, but I think that
particular question is a legitimate one. How should Marxists, Muslim or
not, view Mohamed as a historical figure?
On Tuesday, January 13, 2015, Louis Proyect via Marxism
marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu wrote:
POSTING RULES NOTES
#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived.
#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
*
On 1/13/15 9:14 PM, Dan via Marxism wrote:
ising 100 lashes if you don’t die of laughter.
And what was Mohammed if not a fairly standard oriental primitive ? He
was oriental. He was primitive. And he was fairly standard in his lust
for power and domination, using religion and military might to murder,
plunder, rape and conquer. A fairly standard dictator who would order
mass executions and torture prisoners, but also forgive certain tribes
who swore allegiance to him.
This kind of crude and ignorant Islamophobic trash does not belong on the
Marxism list. I am instructing Dan and anybody else tempted to send out a
message like this in the future that it will lead to removal from the
list.
_
Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm
Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/
options/marxism/amithrgupta%40gmail.com
--
- Amith
_
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_
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Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * There were a lot more recruits to socialist views during Debs's time, so it was wise to concentrate leftwing advice and organizing at home. While there is still much work to be done here in the US, giving a moribund leftwing movement life and work at home today means using examples from abroad, while simultaneously attempting to help foreign leftwing movements to grow and to stay on a socialist path. Wythe From: Marxism marxism-boun...@lists.csbs.utah.edu on behalf of Louis Proyect via Marxism marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 12:10 PM To: Wythe Holt jr. Subject: [Marxism] Moderator's note POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * On 11/30/14 12:52 PM, Charlie via Marxism wrote: LP wrote: Our job as Marxists is simply to form the left wing of new formations like Syriza or Podemos to keep them honest. We must translate LP's posts into Greek and Spanish. The communists of Greece and Spain await his guidance. Because LP knows: A wise armchair revolutionary comments on foreign countries more than on his own. --attributed to E. Debs Charlie, you are smart enough to have written a book on Marxist economics that was pretty well-regarded. But you also seem to be stupid enough to waste bandwidth here with sterile sniping at me. The next time you do this, I will have to remove you. There are 1500 subscribers to Marxmail who are entitled to read serious, thoughtful and substantive posts. Do not waste our time again. _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/wholt%40law.ua.edu _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Marxism] Moderator's note
POSTING RULES NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. * The reason we don't have more to discuss in the U.S. in terms of ongoing movements isn't due to some act of God. American radicals have had a myriad of opportunities to accomplish things in the U.S. It is astonishing that they actually haven't even been able to come close to figuring out what needs to be done to hold together something like Occupy--or to build a movement out of the mass discontent over the militarization of the police and the quite war waged on black youth. ML _ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
