and City Pages? Pulse? Lavender Magazine? was Re: [Mpls] You called him a pornographer...show me the pornography...
Hmm... Didn't our current mayor work for a publication that sometimes had personal and phone service ads in it of a sexually explicit nature or for busniesses such as Augie's? I believe several other candidates in the cities, in fact nearly all of them I can think of, who have some background in the journalism business, including women, have worked for such publications at one time or another including some who would share some of Kayla's concerns listed below about the impact of images on women(and increasingly on men) in terms of body image as well as exploitation of women(and again, increasingly men as well) in such images. I enjoy reading the Pulse, City Pages, Lavender Magazine and other publications from time to time. I sometimes pick up other clubbing or music and entertainment publications because I want to decide where to go out for the evening and they often contain such advertisements. Personal ads that are sexual in nature are of necesiity pornographic? To be honest I haven't seen the trendsetter but from the description below it doesn't seem much different from much media which doesn't appear to draw the same label. David Strand Loring Park The Trendsetter's April 2005 issue included several sexually explicit articles. A picture of a beautiful African American woman in a translucent teddy that barely hits the tippy top of her thigh with a caption reading Trendsetter Treat - Apparently, you can go to more Trendsetter Treats at www.wetrendset.com. They will even customize the treats. Woman will get explicit images of men. Men will get explicit of woman. Apparently, there is not option for woman like who might prefer woman, or men who might prefer men. The April Trendsetter Treat was next to a half page advertisement for Augies Strip Club. This ad featured a woman posing in undergarments with the word slut printed all over them, the caption, sometimes you feel like a slut, sometimes you don't. On this same page, same issue, there is an ad for a Summer Bunnies contest with 3 African American women in bikini tops, one of the women has her hands up inside her own top, cupping her breasts, the other woman has a bikini top so small that it just covers her nipple, with the rest of her breast exposed. The July/August 2005 issue has an article titled Can big booties build a rift between woman? On another page there is a reoccurring article called Advice Chick - often featuring pornographically communicated advice. See the answer where Advice Chick tells a single woman who goes after unattainable/married men, you think like a whore...the only thing connecting you is his meat to your slit. -Kayla Smith Willard Hay _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download === message truncated === __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] You called him a pornographer...show me the pornography...
Dear Don Samuels: I attended a candidate debate for 5th Ward Council held at North high school. You and Natalie Johnson-Lee are the candidates that debated. Stunningly, during a candidate and policy debate, you called Travis Lee, NJL's husband, a pornographer and alluded to the Trendsetter. The Trendsetter is a periodical newspaper published by Travis Lee. It is available for free in many retail stores along West Broadway, including our local Cub and McDonalds. I have routinely grabbed copies of the paper and read it during my lunch break. I have seen photos of touring celebrities and local folks. Some were dancing, clowning, mugging, laughing, or even hugging. None that I recall were engaged in an explicit, nor non-explicit, sex act. To my best recollection, I have never scene a pornographic photo nor read a pornographic passage in the Trendsetter newspaper. For a public official to call a private citizen, not involved in the debate, a pornographer at a public and broadcast debate is a serious matter. Don Samuels, could you please tell me what specific pornography you observed in the Trendsetter? Please include the issue number and date of issue, for reference. Please offer specific documentation of your overtly defaming allegation. Or, please withdraw the allegation and apologize. Thank you, Keith Reitman NearNorth REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] You called him a pornographer...show me the pornography...
I have been following things closely and kept my mouth shut, but this is my area of expertise and I have devoted many years of study debate to this sort of subject so I decided to chime in. Long before Don Samuels called The Trendsetter pornographic, many woman in my life have had this exact discussion about the newspaper and what possible good it could bring to our people. Pornography is defined by the Princeton Dictionary as: creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire - wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn Many people say Playboy magazines have great articles. However, most people buy it for the pictures despite what they might tell you, because the pictures stimulate sexual desire. Everyone is going to define for him or herself what is pornographic material. To me the Trendsetter has pornographic material in it. I believe it indirectly contributes to the exploitation of woman, especially African American woman. Perhaps, I took too many Womans Studies courses at the University of Wisconsin in River Falls, or perhaps I just believe woman should be portrayed differently than they are in the Trendsetter. I believe it is this mentality of exploitation that contribute to keeping Af-Am men in the clubs, having one night stands, cheating on their wives or girlfriends or baby-momma's that help to contribute to the dysfunction of our African American families and communities. Unfortunately, due to concentrated media ownership society is still so dominated by men who control what people see. As a result, women are increasingly portrayed as sex symbols as a way for a media companies to turn a profit. Despite history, that includes great woman like Fannie Lou Hamer, Ida B. Wells, and Rosa Parks, images of African American women are often like the exploitive images seen in the Trendsetter. These images run the danger of perpetuating the victimization of all women. The Trendsetters April 2005 issue included several sexually explicit articles. A picture of a beautiful African American woman in a translucent teddy that barely hits the tippy top of her thigh with a caption reading Trendsetter Treat Apparently, you can go to more Trendsetter Treats at www.wetrendset.com. They will even customize the treats. Woman will get explicit images of men. Men will get explicit of woman. Apparently, there is not option for woman like who might prefer woman, or men who might prefer men. The April Trendsetter Treat was next to a half page advertisement for Augies Strip Club. This ad featured a woman posing in undergarments with the word slut printed all over them, the caption, sometimes you feel like a slut, sometimes you dont. On this same page, same issue, there is an ad for a Summer Bunnies contest with 3 African American women in bikini tops, one of the women has her hands up inside her own top, cupping her breasts, the other woman has a bikini top so small that it just covers her nipple, with the rest of her breast exposed. The July/August 2005 issue has an article titled Can big booties build a rift between woman? On another page there is a reoccurring article called Advice Chick often featuring pornographically communicated advice. See the answer where Advice Chick tells a single woman who goes after unattainable/married men, you think like a whore...the only thing connecting you is his meat to your slit. Sorry for the graphic examples, but since a list poster questioned why it would be called pornography, I thought I'd provide my opinions examples. No one can define pornography for any one but themselves, but the material displayed in trendsetter is certainly designed to stimulate sexual desire, and therefore it meets my own definition. -Kayla Smith Willard Hay _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] You called him a pornographer...show me the pornography...
I guess I'm not really sure where Ms. Smith's post was going, but I'll throw in another view. Considering the Supreme Court even has great difficulty defining pornography, it does indeed fall upon each person to define it themselves. And that's where it should stop. With the exception of media presenting depictions involving individuals unable to give consent (children) or others that do not giving knowing consent (such as hidden cameras) or other illegal activities, this is a market issue. People can find it objectionable, disgusting, and degrading to women. If that's the case, don't buy it. If people find the Trendsetter pornographic, then leave it on the shelves. I think we can agree on that. I assume this publication does not have Trendsetter Treats for men featuring other men because that's not the Trendsetter's audience. Same for women looking for Trendsetter Treats involving other women. Other publications cater to that. I assume there are no Trendsetter Treats depicting geriatrics, amputees or plus-sized individuals, either. Other publications cater to that, too. To somehow suggest that this publication is even more troublesome because it does not cater to the gay community is a weak and hyperbolic argument. I work with men with pornography problems on a daily basis. I also live in a free market system. I do not buy the argument that due to concentrated media ownership society is still so dominated by men who control what people see. As a result, women are increasingly portrayed as sex symbols as a way for a media companies to turn a profit. That argument is getting old. This is 2005, and the media is influenced by as much diversity as it ever has. Porn is alive because people want it, just like drugs. There are countless venues where women are portrayed positively. The Trendsetter (or any other pornographic publication) isn't bringing women down, nor is the cabal of publishers and the concentrated media ownership society. Men who allow porn to negatively impact their interactions with women are bringing ALL of us down. But they're the ones that hold the onus of change, not the publications they read. Mike Thompson Windom - Original Message - From: Kayla Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mpls@mnforum.org Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 3:34 PM Subject: RE: [Mpls] You called him a pornographer...show me the pornography... I have been following things closely and kept my mouth shut, but this is my area of expertise and I have devoted many years of study debate to this sort of subject so I decided to chime in. Long before Don Samuels called The Trendsetter pornographic, many woman in my life have had this exact discussion about the newspaper and what possible good it could bring to our people. Pornography is defined by the Princeton Dictionary as: creative activity (writing or pictures or films etc.) of no literary or artistic value other than to stimulate sexual desire - wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn Many people say Playboy magazines have great articles. However, most people buy it for the pictures - despite what they might tell you, because the pictures stimulate sexual desire. Everyone is going to define for him or herself what is pornographic material. To me the Trendsetter has pornographic material in it. I believe it indirectly contributes to the exploitation of woman, especially African American woman. Perhaps, I took too many Woman's Studies courses at the University of Wisconsin in River Falls, or perhaps I just believe woman should be portrayed differently than they are in the Trendsetter. I believe it is this mentality of exploitation that contribute to keeping Af-Am men in the clubs, having one night stands, cheating on their wives or girlfriends or baby-momma's that help to contribute to the dysfunction of our African American families and communities. Unfortunately, due to concentrated media ownership society is still so dominated by men who control what people see. As a result, women are increasingly portrayed as sex symbols as a way for a media companies to turn a profit. Despite history, that includes great woman like Fannie Lou Hamer, Ida B. Wells, and Rosa Parks, images of African American women are often like the exploitive images seen in the Trendsetter. These images run the danger of perpetuating the victimization of all women. The Trendsetter's April 2005 issue included several sexually explicit articles. A picture of a beautiful African American woman in a translucent teddy that barely hits the tippy top of her thigh with a caption reading Trendsetter Treat - Apparently, you can go to more Trendsetter Treats at www.wetrendset.com. They will even customize the treats. Woman will get explicit images of men. Men will get explicit of woman. Apparently, there is not option for woman like who might prefer woman, or men who might prefer men. The April Trendsetter Treat was next to a half
RE: [Mpls] You called him a pornographer...show me the pornography...
Michael Thompson wrote: The Trendsetter (or any other pornographic publication) isn't bringing women down, nor is the cabal of publishers and the concentrated media ownership society. Men who allow porn to negatively impact their interactions with women are bringing ALL of us down. But they're the ones that hold the onus of change, not the publications they read. While we're talking about banning pornographic publications I think that we should mention Cosmopolitan, with all those expertise articles about how to send your partner over the top. Who buys that disgusting stuff anyway? ;-) If Councilmember Samuels did call someone a pornographer I think he owes them an apology. Michael Atherton Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] You called him a pornographer...show me the pornography...
Well, here's my two-cents. Yes, the term pornographic is very subject and for the most part, remains in the eyes of the beholder. Wheter or not the trendsetter is pornographic is not, nor should it be the sole context from which CM Samuels statements on the matter are viewed. Had the tables been turned and it turned-out that CM Samuels spouse was the publisher of a periodical such as the Trendsetter, it would have been mad a campaign issue a long, long time ago... As it turns-out, the only dirt on CM Samuels thus far is that he holds Peace Vigils when someone is slain, has started a non-profit foundaton to better the lives of inner-city children, was intregal in helping form the jordan livability forum, has taken-on landlords that choose not to operate in an acceptable manner, and he wants every african american child to have the opportunity to live in the big house. Oh, and I forgot, he's also an alpha male... How dare he?? No wonder he's causing so much discussion... No more business as usual. It simply amazes me that not too many people seem to grasp the dynamics of what is actually occuring in this election that pits the old-guard against someone that is willing to think outside the box and demand that we ALL assume that everyone should be given equal right and opporunity AND demand that everyone be held accountable for their actions in our society. What exactly is CM Samuels saying that so many people seem to be taking offense to and WHY are they taking offense to what he is sayng? Is it because they don't understand what he's saying? Or, because they feel threatened by what he says? Personally, I WANT every child in north Minneapolis to see what it's like to live in the big house. I WANT them ALL to aspire to bettering their lives. They should ALL be alowed tohe opportunity to live in the big house. Personally, I WANT ALL the youngsters growing-up in North Minneapolis to hear a voice that tells them that objectifying women (especially African American women) is the WRONG thing to do. I do not pretend to know what it is like to live as a single African American woman in North Minneapolis (or anywhere else for that matter), but I DO know that there are MANY that live here. As our society for generations has set a value (for AA woman) that is MUCH lower than that which we set for most other groups in our society. I am a white male that makes a good income and have never lived under this set of circumstances. But, I have seen it occur often enough in my neighborhood to know it is the prevailing attitude. African American women that make-it and are successfull in raising children in my neighborhood have to be much stronger than mothers in most neighborhoods. We should applaud any voice that has the courage to speak-out against objectifying them. To say that CM Samuels does not understand all of the issues of African Americans because he is Jamaican is of very very little consequence actually, for it is a person's heart, character and decision-making capaibility that allows them to understand the difference between right and wrong. To suggest that CM Samuels has not faced the same set of discriminatory circumstances as other african americans since he immigrated to the united states is simply not true. If anything, his distinct Jamaican accent has probably caused even more discrimination. As I have said before many times, I have nothing against NJL. I think she is a good person. However, in my life, I have met probably 1/2 dozen people that I can actually say I trust entirely and completely, REGARDLESS of the circumstances. CM Samuels is one of those people. I have known him for roughly 4 years and can honestly say that although I do not agree with all of his views, I trust entirely and fully that he will always do the right thing. I am willing to make a few sacrifices to make sure that those that do not have an equal chance, are given one. dennis plante lind-bohanon REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
