Re: imap behavior
On Mon, Apr 08, 2002 at 09:12:59PM -0800, VB wrote: I perused http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/manual-6.html#commands and I did not see that mutt follows the MS Outlook conventions I described. I saw mh_purge is related to renaming deleted messages, but it's not clear if this is what I am referring to. 08-Apr-02 at 23:23, David Rock ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : In its simplest form: 6.3.32. delete Type: quadoption Default: ask-yes Controls whether or not messages are really deleted when closing or synchronizing a mailbox. If set to yes, messages marked for deleting will automatically be purged without prompting. If set to no, messages marked for deletion will be kept in the mailbox. The other question was related to purge. This is mapped by default to $ in mutt, otherwise use sync-mailbox mapped to whichever key you prefer. -- [Simon White. vim/mutt. [EMAIL PROTECTED] GIMPS:63.44% see www.mersenne.org] The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I haven't figured out how to light the middle yet. [Linux user #170823 http://counter.li.org. Home cooked signature rotator.]
Re: imap behavior
Van -- ...and then VB said... % % In MS Outlook, actual deletion from the imap server is a two-step process. Right; that's IMAP in general. % Is mutt capable of simulating this behavior; does it retain the marked for % deletion and purged distinction? So far, mutt takes my messages off of % the imap server, and is so impolite that it does *not* leave a copy for % future reference. I.e., there is nothing left to purge. Yes and no. BTW, if mutt takes your messages off the server, then either you're telling it to wipe them or you're not connecting via IMAP; mutt pulls down headers for the index page and then bodies at read time but does not delete the server copy until you mark it deleted in your index and then sync. You're probably telling it to wipe them, from what I read in your message, but it's not being impolite about it. Unfortunately for IMAP users, mutt does not have the concept of separate write-status-back-to-mailbox and purge-away-deleted-messages commands; when one syncs, mutt will purge any messages marked for deletion. While mutt can open a mailbox with a message marked this way (say via a procmail rule), it can't write a message with the delete flag back to a mailbox. Some might argue that it should have this ability. During your reading you could have a limit that does not show deleted messages, and that would keep your inbox clean, but if you closed mutt with a sync the messages would be gone and if you closed mutt without syncing your 'D' flags would be gone. Your best bet is probably a trash folder implementation, where you throw away messages that you don't really want to throw away (I've never understood the Deleted Messages folder and why some people keep every darned thing in there... It's a real hell for SysAdmins trying to manage disk space!) into some other folder. You might see if Cedric Duval's trash_folder patch works with IMAP mailboxes, but I doubt it. Hmmm... In thinking a bit about this, I realized that you could write DELETE or whatever you want into the X-Label: field and then hide messages based on that and, later on, purge them away also based on that. You lose the ability to take any notes in there for those messages, but what do you care if you're going to delete them anyway? So something like macro index ,d edit-labelDELETEenterlimit! ~y DELETEenter macro pager ,d edit-labelDELETEenterlimit! ~y DELETEenter macro index ,D delete-pattern~y DELETEentersync would probably do you, though that's from the hip and untested. In particular I don't know about limiting from the pager view and about resolution; you might have to quit the pager and get to the index first, which would make this kinda klunky for one-key mailbox reading. % % I perused http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/manual-6.html#commands and I did % not see that mutt follows the MS Outlook conventions I described. I saw % mh_purge is related to renaming deleted messages, but it's not clear if % this is what I am referring to. Nope; that won't do for you. % % Can someone please speak to this? Hello? Hello? Is this on? What are you doing today, this? ;-) % % Van HTH HAND :-D -- David T-G * It's easier to fight for one's principles (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! msg26909/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: imap behavior
09-Apr-02 at 08:00, David T-G ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : Your best bet is probably a trash folder implementation, where you throw away messages that you don't really want to throw away (I've never understood the Deleted Messages folder and why some people keep every darned thing in there... It's a real hell for SysAdmins trying to manage disk space!) into some other folder. Set your server to automatically purge Deleted Messages. They won't ever use it to store mail again ;-) I use IMAP and am very happy with Mutt's implementation. Deleted mail is marked D and goes away only if I sync. Why should I flag to delete and not want to delete that session? I will move it to another folder if it's for reading later, and just delete and be done with it if it is read and there is no action for it. I press $ sync-mailbox a LOT. -- [Simon White. vim/mutt. [EMAIL PROTECTED] GIMPS:63.71% see www.mersenne.org] Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. -- Diderot [Linux user #170823 http://counter.li.org. Home cooked signature rotator.]
Re: imap behavior
On 04-09-2002 at 08:56 EDT, Simon White [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Set your server to automatically purge Deleted Messages. They won't ever use it to store mail again ;-) [...] How are you accomplishing this? Is that a special IMAP server? I use IMAP from Washington University and I don't have such option... Cheers, -- David Collantes - http://www.bus.ucf.edu/david/ College of Business Administration, University of Central Florida I never think of the future. It comes soon enough. smime.p7s Description: application/pkcs7-signature
Re: imap behavior
Simon -- ...and then Simon White said... % % 09-Apr-02 at 08:00, David T-G ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : ... % understood the Deleted Messages folder and why some people keep every % darned thing in there... It's a real hell for SysAdmins trying to manage % disk space!) into some other folder. % % Set your server to automatically purge Deleted Messages. They won't ever % use it to store mail again ;-) Heh :-) While I'd love to, I'm usually just the scummy contractor brought in to help clean up the mess, and somehow that never involves properly trashing (replace it with Linux! oh, shut up) or even properly configuring all of the Win stuff. No matter; there's always enough work to do on the *NIX side, anyway. But I love the idea :-) % % I use IMAP and am very happy with Mutt's implementation. Deleted mail is % marked D and goes away only if I sync. Why should I flag to delete and not % want to delete that session? I will move it to another folder if it's for Yeah, exactly! % reading later, and just delete and be done with it if it is read and there % is no action for it. I press $ sync-mailbox a LOT. Same here, and I'm only on mbox :-) I'd probably use IMAP more except for the bit where I can't go back and mark a message 'N'ew again :-( % % -- % [Simon White. vim/mutt. [EMAIL PROTECTED] GIMPS:63.71% see www.mersenne.org] % Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails % of the last priest. -- Diderot % [Linux user #170823 http://counter.li.org. Home cooked signature rotator.] HAND :-D -- David T-G * It's easier to fight for one's principles (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! msg26917/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: imap behavior
On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 09:10:17AM -0500, David T-G wrote: Same here, and I'm only on mbox :-) I'd probably use IMAP more except for the bit where I can't go back and mark a message 'N'ew again :-( why not? works for me... The only time I wished for a trash box was when I notied a lot of times I delete a message without reading it (from one of the lists), and notice that I actually did want to read it (while it was syncing)... but for that, I just created a mail.today box, and a mail.yesterday - that keeps all the mail I get in the past two days... :) -- Dan Boger [EMAIL PROTECTED] msg26918/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: imap behavior
Dan, et al -- ...and then Dan Boger said... % % On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 09:10:17AM -0500, David T-G wrote: % Same here, and I'm only on mbox :-) I'd probably use IMAP more except % for the bit where I can't go back and mark a message 'N'ew again :-( % % why not? works for me... The only time I wished for a trash box was Why not live without the 'N'ew flag? Because I want it, of course. Or am I missing your point? % when I notied a lot of times I delete a message without reading it (from % one of the lists), and notice that I actually did want to read it (while % it was syncing)... but for that, I just created a mail.today box, and a % mail.yesterday - that keeps all the mail I get in the past two days... % :) Not a bad idea. I use procmail's backup method and I keep the last 3k messages, or almost 5 days' worth at the current rate. % % -- % Dan Boger % [EMAIL PROTECTED] TIA HAND :-D -- David T-G * It's easier to fight for one's principles (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! msg26919/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: imap behavior
On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 09:27:10AM -0500, David T-G wrote: % On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 09:10:17AM -0500, David T-G wrote: % Same here, and I'm only on mbox :-) I'd probably use IMAP more except % for the bit where I can't go back and mark a message 'N'ew again :-( % % why not? works for me... The only time I wished for a trash box was Why not live without the 'N'ew flag? Because I want it, of course. Or am I missing your point? yes, you are :) why can't you go back and mark a message 'N' again? -- Dan Boger [EMAIL PROTECTED] msg26920/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: imap behavior
Dan, et al -- ...and then Dan Boger said... % % On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 09:27:10AM -0500, David T-G wrote: ... % Or am I missing your point? % % yes, you are :) why can't you go back and mark a message 'N' again? It's my understanding that the IMAP design does not allow the client to write back the N flag. There was a time when I *could* write it, and all was well, but then we upgraded to a current, secure, modern IMAP server and that went away. When I wailed and moaned, thinking it was mutt's fault, I was told that that's How It Should be. Ugh. I telnetted to my imap port and simply got [zero] [9:39am] ~ telnet localhost 143 Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost. Escape character is '^]'. * OK localhost IMAP4rev1 v12.264 server ready ^] telnet qui Connection closed. so I don't know for sure what IMAP server we're running. It's not worth further checking unless my understanding is out of date or otherwise incorrect, though. You can write the 'N'ew flag back to your mailbox? % % -- % Dan Boger % [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks HAND :-D -- David T-G * It's easier to fight for one's principles (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! msg26922/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: imap behavior
09-Apr-02 at 09:31, David Collantes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : On 04-09-2002 at 08:56 EDT, Simon White [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Set your server to automatically purge Deleted Messages. They won't ever use it to store mail again ;-) [...] How are you accomplishing this? Is that a special IMAP server? I use IMAP from Washington University and I don't have such option... I don't actually do it here, because IMAP is only for internal staff, others all use POP. However, it would be reasonably easy, if everyone's deleted messages folder was called Deleted Messages to run a cron job to purge messages every once in a while by going to each $HOME/mail or wherever else, and then deleting the file. You could even parse messages older than 1 week old, or something. Exchange has built in settings for this kind of stuff, and with 5.5 at least you must do some scheduled stuff to keep the mailboxes from corrupting - one big file with all the data cannot be left just growing and growing without pruning and watering. Sadly Microsoft products, supposedly to make your life easier, have such a sorry set of defaults that you have to hack (or click Advanced everywhere, at the very least) things to get them to work as well as out-of-the-box solutions on Linux, Solaris, Unix and even Mac OSX. -- [Simon White. vim/mutt. [EMAIL PROTECTED] GIMPS:63.82% see www.mersenne.org] Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal [Linux user #170823 http://counter.li.org. Home cooked signature rotator.]
Re: imap behavior
09-Apr-02 at 09:10, David T-G ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : Heh :-) While I'd love to, I'm usually just the scummy contractor brought in to help clean up the mess, and somehow that never involves properly trashing (replace it with Linux! oh, shut up) or even properly configuring all of the Win stuff. No matter; there's always enough work to do on the *NIX side, anyway. I get my own way as a contractor, as much as possible. But then I do not have the same calibre of client as you do, I imagine, since I'm in Morocco. Guru status can be rapidly acheived in a place where real Gurus all left and went to the US years ago ;-) -- [Simon White. vim/mutt. [EMAIL PROTECTED] GIMPS:63.83% see www.mersenne.org] Not only does Jesus save, but he makes nightly off-site backups. [Linux user #170823 http://counter.li.org. Home cooked signature rotator.]
Re: imap behavior
On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 09:42:02AM -0500, David T-G wrote: I telnetted to my imap port and simply got [zero] [9:39am] ~ telnet localhost 143 Trying 127.0.0.1... Connected to localhost. Escape character is '^]'. * OK localhost IMAP4rev1 v12.264 server ready ^] telnet qui Connection closed. so I don't know for sure what IMAP server we're running. It's not worth further checking unless my understanding is out of date or otherwise incorrect, though. You can write the 'N'ew flag back to your mailbox? I think that's the WU IMAP implementation... I think that, because that's what I run, and my header is * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4REV1 LOGIN-REFERRALS STARTTLS LOGINDISABLED] localhost.localdomain IMAP4rev1 2001.315 at Tue, 9 Apr 2002 10:45:50 -0400 (EDT) (LOGINDISABLED because it's not a secure channle) maybe you're running an old version? -- Dan Boger [EMAIL PROTECTED] msg26926/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: imap behavior
Simon -- ...and then Simon White said... % % 09-Apr-02 at 09:10, David T-G ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : % Heh :-) While I'd love to, I'm usually just the scummy contractor ... % enough work to do on the *NIX side, anyway. % % I get my own way as a contractor, as much as possible. But then I do not Oh, don't get me wrong; I get my way a lot, too, especially here where I can even sell it as you don't want to treat me like the rest of your employees because the IRS might then consider me one. But I don't pretend to be an MS expert and so I'm never contracted in that capacity. It doesn't matter that I have valuable input anyway :-) % have the same calibre of client as you do, I imagine, since I'm in % Morocco. Guru status can be rapidly acheived in a place where real Gurus % all left and went to the US years ago ;-) Hmmm... Good point. Any room for more fish in that pond? :-) % % -- % [Simon White. vim/mutt. [EMAIL PROTECTED] GIMPS:63.83% see www.mersenne.org] % Not only does Jesus save, but he makes nightly off-site backups. % [Linux user #170823 http://counter.li.org. Home cooked signature rotator.] HAND :-D -- David T-G * It's easier to fight for one's principles (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! msg26927/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: imap behavior
On Tue, 09 Apr 2002, David T-G wrote: so I don't know for sure what IMAP server we're running. It's not worth further checking unless my understanding is out of date or otherwise incorrect, though. You can write the 'N'ew flag back to your mailbox? Hi, David. I just tested, and I can indeed write back the new flag to my mailbox. Both on a Cyrus IMAP server, and on an Exchange server. With my keybindings, Shift-N will reset the new flag, and it persists across sessions, and changes are visible in other clients if I refresh their view. Cheers, -Tim
Re: imap behavior
Dan -- ...and then Dan Boger said... % % On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 09:42:02AM -0500, David T-G wrote: % I telnetted to my imap port and simply got ... %* OK localhost IMAP4rev1 v12.264 server ready ... % incorrect, though. You can write the 'N'ew flag back to your mailbox? % % I think that's the WU IMAP implementation... I think that, because % that's what I run, and my header is Hmmm... % % * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4REV1 LOGIN-REFERRALS STARTTLS LOGINDISABLED] % localhost.localdomain IMAP4rev1 2001.315 at Tue, 9 Apr 2002 10:45:50 % -0400 (EDT) % % (LOGINDISABLED because it's not a secure channle) % % maybe you're running an old version? Possibly so. Meanwhile, if you *can* write a 'N'ew flag back to any mailbox, I'll start bugging root! % % -- % Dan Boger % [EMAIL PROTECTED] :-D -- David T-G * It's easier to fight for one's principles (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! msg26929/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: imap behavior
On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 10:55:33AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 09:42:02AM -0500, David T-G wrote: I telnetted to my imap port and simply got [snip] * OK localhost IMAP4rev1 v12.264 server ready I think that's the WU IMAP implementation... It looks identical to the response that we used to get from our WU imapd. -- David SmithWork Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] STMicroelectronics Home Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bristol, England
Re: imap behavior
On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 09:59:25AM -0500, David T-G wrote: Possibly so. Meanwhile, if you *can* write a 'N'ew flag back to any mailbox, I'll start bugging root! yup, works, no problems :) bug away! -- Dan Boger [EMAIL PROTECTED] msg26931/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: imap behavior
Tim -- ...and then Tim Kennedy said... % % On Tue, 09 Apr 2002, David T-G wrote: % % incorrect, though. You can write the 'N'ew flag back to your mailbox? % % Hi, David. Hello! % % I just tested, and I can indeed write back the new flag to my mailbox. Hey, cool! % Both on a Cyrus IMAP server, and on an Exchange server. The latter doesn't matter, since I certainly won't go near MS, but the former is certainly a possibility. I don't know for sure what we're using now. % With my keybindings, Shift-N will reset the new flag, and it persists % across sessions, and changes are visible in other clients if I refresh % their view. Excellent! Thanks so much. [Dan, if you can tell me what you're running and that it works for you I can give root a choice, so please do follow up.] % % Cheers, % % -Tim Thanks HAND :-D -- David T-G * It's easier to fight for one's principles (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! msg26932/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: imap behavior
Dave -- ...and then Dave Smith said... % % On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 10:55:33AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: % On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 09:42:02AM -0500, David T-G wrote: % I telnetted to my imap port and simply got % [snip] % * OK localhost IMAP4rev1 v12.264 server ready % I think that's the WU IMAP implementation... % % It looks identical to the response that we used to get from our WU % imapd. Ahhh... used to says perhaps we are old here. Good; I even have a non-personal excuse to beat up root :-) % % -- % David SmithWork Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] % STMicroelectronics Home Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] % Bristol, England :-D -- David T-G * It's easier to fight for one's principles (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! msg26933/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: imap behavior
09-Apr-02 at 09:57, David T-G ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : % have the same calibre of client as you do, I imagine, since I'm in % Morocco. Guru status can be rapidly acheived in a place where real Gurus % all left and went to the US years ago ;-) Hmmm... Good point. Any room for more fish in that pond? :-) Plenty room in this pond. More dollars per capita in the US pond though ;-) my salary here makes work seem more like a hobby than anything else... but I'm learning fast and enjoying the ride so far. Until someone makes me an offer of course. -- [Simon White. vim/mutt. [EMAIL PROTECTED] GIMPS:63.86% see www.mersenne.org] Tis better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. -- Abraham Lincoln [Linux user #170823 http://counter.li.org. Home cooked signature rotator.]
Re: imap behavior
On Mon, Apr 08, 2002 at 09:12:59PM -0800, VB wrote: I perused http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/manual-6.html#commands and I did not see that mutt follows the MS Outlook conventions I described. I saw mh_purge is related to renaming deleted messages, but it's not clear if this is what I am referring to. Can someone please speak to this? In its simplest form: 6.3.32. delete Type: quadoption Default: ask-yes Controls whether or not messages are really deleted when closing or synchronizing a mailbox. If set to yes, messages marked for deleting will automatically be purged without prompting. If set to no, messages marked for deletion will be kept in the mailbox. Mutt can be set to ask if you want it to actually delete read messages. I use this in its ask-yes state when changing folders to clean up behind me. What you are probably looking for is no. -- David Rock [EMAIL PROTECTED] msg26903/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
