RE: [ebirdsnyc] Re: [nysbirds-l] Thayer's Gull - the species that never was?

[Larry Trachtenberg]

Anecdotally, on a trip with Saw Mill River Audubon to Duluth MN and environs in 
January, one afternoon, for the gull-ers in the group, we headed to the Duluth 
waterfront (in lieu of say looking for more e.g. great gray owls).  However, we 
were successful in the quest to find, e.g. Thayer’s gull, a life bird for 
several, who now I am afraid must remove the tick from their lists. (I will say 
the Arch Bridge between Duluth and Superior, WI in late afternoon winter light 
was well worth the stop, the gulls not so sure.)  The scrapping of Thayer’s as 
a bird, reminds me of the quote about gulls from Nell Zink’s The Wallcreeper 
"the many eerie transformations they undergo on their way from being 
indistinguishable to being basically identical."

As to the “magnificent” hummingbird split, why not leave one magnificent and 
call the other “amazing” or some such, rather than “Rivoli’s” and “Admirable” 
which seem so pedestrian in comparison.  Rivoli’s was named after Anna, the 
Dutchess of Rivoli long forgotten, who was the wife of the Duke of Rivoli, an 
amateur ornithologist (also long forgotten) --- why not the Ingrid Bergman 
hummingbird, then?

L. Trachtenberg
Ossining


From: bounce-121634392-10490...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-121634392-10490...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Paul R Sweet
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2017 11:36 AM
To: Donna Schulman <queensgir...@gmail.com>
Cc: Andrew Baksh <birdingd...@gmail.com>; nysbird...@list.cornell.edu; Nyc 
ebirds <ebirds...@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [ebirdsnyc] Re: [nysbirds-l] Thayer's Gull - the species that 
never was?

Thanks Donna

Didn't realize the on line checklist had rolling updates prior to publication 
of the supplement. I see Northern Harrier has been split from Hen and Northern 
Shrike from Great Grey.

Paul
Paul Sweet | Department of Ornithology | American Museum of Natural History | 
Central Park West @ 79th St | NY 10024 | Tel 212 769 5780 | Mob 718 757 5941

On Jul 1, 2017, at 10:42 AM, Donna Schulman 
<queensgir...@gmail.com<mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Paul,

So far, the Supplement has not been published, but the checklist reflects 
decisions: 
http://checklist.aou.org/taxa/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fchecklist.aou.org%2Ftaxa%2F=01%7C01%7Csweet%40amnh.org%7C91ea32f035ab4b70b35408d4c08f69b4%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0=YOWMRH2%2BF9tkUeEAd1EJpDWdXoipGL6roWuB4da02z4%3D=0>

As Brendan Fogarty pointed out on Facebook, Thayer's Gull is gone, Red 
Crossbill and Magnificent Hummingbird have been split, and there are some 
taxonomic changes. I think we're all waiting to see if that is the final word 
or if more will be coming.

Donna Schulman

---
Donna L. Schulman
Forest Hills, NY
queensgir...@gmail.com<mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>


<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fqueensgirl=01%7C01%7Csweet%40amnh.org%7C91ea32f035ab4b70b35408d4c08f69b4%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0=70DWHBs1lr%2BAwpNM1%2FkKwfSJEHSq8pP%2BUerC5pRJX2I%3D=0>

On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Paul R Sweet 
sw...@amnh.org<mailto:sw...@amnh.org> [ebirdsnyc] 
<ebirdsnyc-nore...@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ebirdsnyc-nore...@yahoogroups.com>> 
wrote:

Hi Andrew

I've seen the proposals 
http://checklist.aou.org/nacc/proposals/current_proposals.html<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fchecklist.aou.org%2Fnacc%2Fproposals%2Fcurrent_proposals.html=01%7C01%7Csweet%40amnh.org%7C91ea32f035ab4b70b35408d4c08f69b4%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0=abH3oa5i5jyzKWBpHRGPQBT8KZ4W6j4brTxbsjaAHXg%3D=0>
But your post indicates the votes have been cast. Is this posted? Curious about 
decision on other splits - Yellow-rump, Willet, Harrier, Junco etc.

Cheers, Paul
Paul Sweet | Department of Ornithology | American Museum of Natural History | 
Central Park West @ 79th St | NY 10024 | Tel 212 769 5780<tel:(212)%20769-5780> 
| Mob 718 757 5941<tel:(718)%20757-5941>

On Jul 1, 2017, at 8:11 AM, Andrew Baksh 
<birdingd...@gmail.com<mailto:birdingd...@gmail.com>> wrote:
By now some of you have already heard that the AOU has taken the decision to 
invalidate Thayer's Gull.

A bit of background: Considered a subspecies of the Herring Gull by the AOU 
until 1973. Thayer's Gull, received full species status based largely on the 
research of A.H. Macpherson and Neil Smith in the 1960's. Smith's work which 
suggested Thayer's and Kumlien's Gulls mated as separate species on Baffin 
Island was viewed with much skepticism and this decision by the AOU appears to 
debunk his claim.

Ron Pittaway, a respected authority on this subject has published an excellent 
account of the history of this taxonomical debate and is worth reading for 
those interested.

http://www.ofo.ca/site/page/view/articles.thayer<https://na01.safelin

RE: [ebirdsnyc] Re: [nysbirds-l] Thayer's Gull - the species that never was?

[Larry Trachtenberg]

Anecdotally, on a trip with Saw Mill River Audubon to Duluth MN and environs in 
January, one afternoon, for the gull-ers in the group, we headed to the Duluth 
waterfront (in lieu of say looking for more e.g. great gray owls).  However, we 
were successful in the quest to find, e.g. Thayer’s gull, a life bird for 
several, who now I am afraid must remove the tick from their lists. (I will say 
the Arch Bridge between Duluth and Superior, WI in late afternoon winter light 
was well worth the stop, the gulls not so sure.)  The scrapping of Thayer’s as 
a bird, reminds me of the quote about gulls from Nell Zink’s The Wallcreeper 
"the many eerie transformations they undergo on their way from being 
indistinguishable to being basically identical."

As to the “magnificent” hummingbird split, why not leave one magnificent and 
call the other “amazing” or some such, rather than “Rivoli’s” and “Admirable” 
which seem so pedestrian in comparison.  Rivoli’s was named after Anna, the 
Dutchess of Rivoli long forgotten, who was the wife of the Duke of Rivoli, an 
amateur ornithologist (also long forgotten) --- why not the Ingrid Bergman 
hummingbird, then?

L. Trachtenberg
Ossining


From: bounce-121634392-10490...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-121634392-10490...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Paul R Sweet
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2017 11:36 AM
To: Donna Schulman 
Cc: Andrew Baksh ; nysbird...@list.cornell.edu; Nyc 
ebirds 
Subject: Re: [ebirdsnyc] Re: [nysbirds-l] Thayer's Gull - the species that 
never was?

Thanks Donna

Didn't realize the on line checklist had rolling updates prior to publication 
of the supplement. I see Northern Harrier has been split from Hen and Northern 
Shrike from Great Grey.

Paul
Paul Sweet | Department of Ornithology | American Museum of Natural History | 
Central Park West @ 79th St | NY 10024 | Tel 212 769 5780 | Mob 718 757 5941

On Jul 1, 2017, at 10:42 AM, Donna Schulman 
mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Paul,

So far, the Supplement has not been published, but the checklist reflects 
decisions: 
http://checklist.aou.org/taxa/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fchecklist.aou.org%2Ftaxa%2F=01%7C01%7Csweet%40amnh.org%7C91ea32f035ab4b70b35408d4c08f69b4%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0=YOWMRH2%2BF9tkUeEAd1EJpDWdXoipGL6roWuB4da02z4%3D=0>

As Brendan Fogarty pointed out on Facebook, Thayer's Gull is gone, Red 
Crossbill and Magnificent Hummingbird have been split, and there are some 
taxonomic changes. I think we're all waiting to see if that is the final word 
or if more will be coming.

Donna Schulman

---
Donna L. Schulman
Forest Hills, NY
queensgir...@gmail.com<mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>


<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fqueensgirl=01%7C01%7Csweet%40amnh.org%7C91ea32f035ab4b70b35408d4c08f69b4%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0=70DWHBs1lr%2BAwpNM1%2FkKwfSJEHSq8pP%2BUerC5pRJX2I%3D=0>

On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Paul R Sweet 
sw...@amnh.org<mailto:sw...@amnh.org> [ebirdsnyc] 
mailto:ebirdsnyc-nore...@yahoogroups.com>> 
wrote:

Hi Andrew

I've seen the proposals 
http://checklist.aou.org/nacc/proposals/current_proposals.html<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fchecklist.aou.org%2Fnacc%2Fproposals%2Fcurrent_proposals.html=01%7C01%7Csweet%40amnh.org%7C91ea32f035ab4b70b35408d4c08f69b4%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0=abH3oa5i5jyzKWBpHRGPQBT8KZ4W6j4brTxbsjaAHXg%3D=0>
But your post indicates the votes have been cast. Is this posted? Curious about 
decision on other splits - Yellow-rump, Willet, Harrier, Junco etc.

Cheers, Paul
Paul Sweet | Department of Ornithology | American Museum of Natural History | 
Central Park West @ 79th St | NY 10024 | Tel 212 769 5780 
| Mob 718 757 5941

On Jul 1, 2017, at 8:11 AM, Andrew Baksh 
mailto:birdingd...@gmail.com>> wrote:
By now some of you have already heard that the AOU has taken the decision to 
invalidate Thayer's Gull.

A bit of background: Considered a subspecies of the Herring Gull by the AOU 
until 1973. Thayer's Gull, received full species status based largely on the 
research of A.H. Macpherson and Neil Smith in the 1960's. Smith's work which 
suggested Thayer's and Kumlien's Gulls mated as separate species on Baffin 
Island was viewed with much skepticism and this decision by the AOU appears to 
debunk his claim.

Ron Pittaway, a respected authority on this subject has published an excellent 
account of the history of this taxonomical debate and is worth reading for 
those interested.

http://www.ofo.ca/site/page/view/articles.thayer<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ofo.ca%2Fsite%2Fpage%2Fview%2Farticles.thayer=01%7C01%7Csweet%40amnh.org%7C1c3bb5b25ce645f0ae8b08d4c07a49c3%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0=6%2FvcUHSI0lMDRQFQzzbHH2eHTXKlfktpFMmyXPZIKCk%3D=0

Re: [ebirdsnyc] Re: [nysbirds-l] Thayer's Gull - the species that never was?

[Paul R Sweet]

Thanks Donna

Didn't realize the on line checklist had rolling updates prior to publication 
of the supplement. I see Northern Harrier has been split from Hen and Northern 
Shrike from Great Grey.

Paul

Paul Sweet | Department of Ornithology | American Museum of Natural History | 
Central Park West @ 79th St | NY 10024 | Tel 212 769 5780 | Mob 718 757 5941

On Jul 1, 2017, at 10:42 AM, Donna Schulman 
> wrote:

Paul,

So far, the Supplement has not been published, but the checklist reflects 
decisions: 
http://checklist.aou.org/taxa/

As Brendan Fogarty pointed out on Facebook, Thayer's Gull is gone, Red 
Crossbill and Magnificent Hummingbird have been split, and there are some 
taxonomic changes. I think we're all waiting to see if that is the final word 
or if more will be coming.

Donna Schulman

---
Donna L. Schulman
Forest Hills, NY
queensgir...@gmail.com





On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Paul R Sweet 
sw...@amnh.org [ebirdsnyc] 
> 
wrote:


Hi Andrew

I've seen the proposals 
http://checklist.aou.org/nacc/proposals/current_proposals.html
But your post indicates the votes have been cast. Is this posted? Curious about 
decision on other splits - Yellow-rump, Willet, Harrier, Junco etc.

Cheers, Paul

Paul Sweet | Department of Ornithology | American Museum of Natural History | 
Central Park West @ 79th St | NY 10024 | Tel 212 769 5780 
| Mob 718 757 5941

On Jul 1, 2017, at 8:11 AM, Andrew Baksh 
> wrote:

By now some of you have already heard that the AOU has taken the decision to 
invalidate Thayer's Gull.

A bit of background: Considered a subspecies of the Herring Gull by the AOU 
until 1973. Thayer's Gull, received full species status based largely on the 
research of A.H. Macpherson and Neil Smith in the 1960's. Smith's work which 
suggested Thayer's and Kumlien's Gulls mated as separate species on Baffin 
Island was viewed with much skepticism and this decision by the AOU appears to 
debunk his claim.

Ron Pittaway, a respected authority on this subject has published an excellent 
account of the history of this taxonomical debate and is worth reading for 
those interested.

http://www.ofo.ca/site/page/view/articles.thayer


"I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of 
others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence." ~ Frederick 
Douglass

風　Swift as the wind
林　Quiet as the forest
火　Conquer like the fire
山　Steady as the mountain
Sun 
Tzu
  The Art of 
War

(__/)
(= '.'=)
(") _ (")
Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device!

Andrew Baksh
www.birdingdude.blogspot.com
--
NYSbirds-L List Info:
Welcome and 

Re: [ebirdsnyc] Re: [nysbirds-l] Thayer's Gull - the species that never was?

[Paul R Sweet]

Thanks Donna

Didn't realize the on line checklist had rolling updates prior to publication 
of the supplement. I see Northern Harrier has been split from Hen and Northern 
Shrike from Great Grey.

Paul

Paul Sweet | Department of Ornithology | American Museum of Natural History | 
Central Park West @ 79th St | NY 10024 | Tel 212 769 5780 | Mob 718 757 5941

On Jul 1, 2017, at 10:42 AM, Donna Schulman 
mailto:queensgir...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Paul,

So far, the Supplement has not been published, but the checklist reflects 
decisions: 
http://checklist.aou.org/taxa/

As Brendan Fogarty pointed out on Facebook, Thayer's Gull is gone, Red 
Crossbill and Magnificent Hummingbird have been split, and there are some 
taxonomic changes. I think we're all waiting to see if that is the final word 
or if more will be coming.

Donna Schulman

---
Donna L. Schulman
Forest Hills, NY
queensgir...@gmail.com





On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Paul R Sweet 
sw...@amnh.org [ebirdsnyc] 
mailto:ebirdsnyc-nore...@yahoogroups.com>> 
wrote:


Hi Andrew

I've seen the proposals 
http://checklist.aou.org/nacc/proposals/current_proposals.html
But your post indicates the votes have been cast. Is this posted? Curious about 
decision on other splits - Yellow-rump, Willet, Harrier, Junco etc.

Cheers, Paul

Paul Sweet | Department of Ornithology | American Museum of Natural History | 
Central Park West @ 79th St | NY 10024 | Tel 212 769 5780 
| Mob 718 757 5941

On Jul 1, 2017, at 8:11 AM, Andrew Baksh 
mailto:birdingd...@gmail.com>> wrote:

By now some of you have already heard that the AOU has taken the decision to 
invalidate Thayer's Gull.

A bit of background: Considered a subspecies of the Herring Gull by the AOU 
until 1973. Thayer's Gull, received full species status based largely on the 
research of A.H. Macpherson and Neil Smith in the 1960's. Smith's work which 
suggested Thayer's and Kumlien's Gulls mated as separate species on Baffin 
Island was viewed with much skepticism and this decision by the AOU appears to 
debunk his claim.

Ron Pittaway, a respected authority on this subject has published an excellent 
account of the history of this taxonomical debate and is worth reading for 
those interested.

http://www.ofo.ca/site/page/view/articles.thayer


"I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of 
others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence." ~ Frederick 
Douglass

風　Swift as the wind
林　Quiet as the forest
火　Conquer like the fire
山　Steady as the mountain
Sun 
Tzu
  The Art of 
War

(__/)
(= '.'=)
(") _ (")
Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device!

Andrew Baksh
www.birdingdude.blogspot.com
--
NYSbirds-L List Info:
Welcome and 
Basics
Rules and 

Re: [ebirdsnyc] Re: [nysbirds-l] Thayer's Gull - the species that never was?

[Donna Schulman]

Paul,

So far, the Supplement has not been published, but the checklist reflects
decisions: http://checklist.aou.org/taxa/

As Brendan Fogarty pointed out on Facebook, Thayer's Gull is gone, Red
Crossbill and Magnificent Hummingbird have been split, and there are some
taxonomic changes. I think we're all waiting to see if that is the final
word or if more will be coming.

Donna Schulman

*---*




*Donna L. SchulmanForest Hills, nyqueensgir...@gmail.com
*


* *

On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Paul R Sweet sw...@amnh.org [ebirdsnyc] <
ebirdsnyc-nore...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Andrew
>
> I've seen the proposals http://checklist.aou.org/nacc/proposals/
> current_proposals.html
> But your post indicates the votes have been cast. Is this posted? Curious
> about decision on other splits - Yellow-rump, Willet, Harrier, Junco etc.
>
> Cheers, Paul
>
> Paul Sweet | Department of Ornithology | American Museum of Natural
> History | Central Park West @ 79th St | NY 10024 | Tel 212 769 5780
> <(212)%20769-5780> | Mob 718 757 5941 <(718)%20757-5941>
>
> On Jul 1, 2017, at 8:11 AM, Andrew Baksh  wrote:
>
> By now some of you have already heard that the AOU has taken the decision
> to invalidate Thayer's Gull.
>
> A bit of background: Considered a subspecies of the Herring Gull by the
> AOU until 1973. Thayer's Gull, received full species status based largely
> on the research of A.H. Macpherson and Neil Smith in the 1960's. Smith's
> work which suggested Thayer's and Kumlien's Gulls mated as separate species
> on Baffin Island was viewed with much skepticism and this decision by the
> AOU appears to debunk his claim.
>
> Ron Pittaway, a respected authority on this subject has published an
> excellent account of the history of this taxonomical debate and is worth
> reading for those interested.
>
> http://www.ofo.ca/site/page/view/articles.thayer
> 
>
> 
> "I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the
> ridicule of others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own
> abhorrence." ~ Frederick Douglass
>
> 風 Swift as the wind
> 林 Quiet as the forest
> 火 Conquer like the fire
> 山 Steady as the mountain
> Sun Tzu
> 
>   *The Art of War*
> 
>
> (__/)
> (= '.'=)
>
> (") _ (")
>
> Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device!
>
>
> Andrew Baksh
> www.birdingdude.blogspot.com
> 
> --
> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
> Welcome and Basics
> 
> Rules and Information
> 
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> 
> *Archives:*
> The Mail Archive
> 
> Surfbirds
> 

Re: [ebirdsnyc] Re: [nysbirds-l] Thayer's Gull - the species that never was?

[Donna Schulman]

Paul,

So far, the Supplement has not been published, but the checklist reflects
decisions: http://checklist.aou.org/taxa/

As Brendan Fogarty pointed out on Facebook, Thayer's Gull is gone, Red
Crossbill and Magnificent Hummingbird have been split, and there are some
taxonomic changes. I think we're all waiting to see if that is the final
word or if more will be coming.

Donna Schulman

*---*




*Donna L. SchulmanForest Hills, nyqueensgir...@gmail.com
*


* *

On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Paul R Sweet sw...@amnh.org [ebirdsnyc] <
ebirdsnyc-nore...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Andrew
>
> I've seen the proposals http://checklist.aou.org/nacc/proposals/
> current_proposals.html
> But your post indicates the votes have been cast. Is this posted? Curious
> about decision on other splits - Yellow-rump, Willet, Harrier, Junco etc.
>
> Cheers, Paul
>
> Paul Sweet | Department of Ornithology | American Museum of Natural
> History | Central Park West @ 79th St | NY 10024 | Tel 212 769 5780
> <(212)%20769-5780> | Mob 718 757 5941 <(718)%20757-5941>
>
> On Jul 1, 2017, at 8:11 AM, Andrew Baksh  wrote:
>
> By now some of you have already heard that the AOU has taken the decision
> to invalidate Thayer's Gull.
>
> A bit of background: Considered a subspecies of the Herring Gull by the
> AOU until 1973. Thayer's Gull, received full species status based largely
> on the research of A.H. Macpherson and Neil Smith in the 1960's. Smith's
> work which suggested Thayer's and Kumlien's Gulls mated as separate species
> on Baffin Island was viewed with much skepticism and this decision by the
> AOU appears to debunk his claim.
>
> Ron Pittaway, a respected authority on this subject has published an
> excellent account of the history of this taxonomical debate and is worth
> reading for those interested.
>
> http://www.ofo.ca/site/page/view/articles.thayer
> 
>
> 
> "I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the
> ridicule of others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own
> abhorrence." ~ Frederick Douglass
>
> 風 Swift as the wind
> 林 Quiet as the forest
> 火 Conquer like the fire
> 山 Steady as the mountain
> Sun Tzu
> 
>   *The Art of War*
> 
>
> (__/)
> (= '.'=)
>
> (") _ (")
>
> Sent from somewhere in the field using my mobile device!
>
>
> Andrew Baksh
> www.birdingdude.blogspot.com
> 
> --
> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
> Welcome and Basics
> 
> Rules and Information
> 
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> 
> *Archives:*
> The Mail Archive
> 
> Surfbirds
> 
> ABA
>