Re: [Owncloud] License

2013-12-20 Thread Frank Karlitschek 

On 19.12.2013, at 19:19, Tim Atkins  wrote:

> This answer confuses me more ;-)

Sorry for the confusion. Licenses are sometimes tricky.


> And what about a PHP software (out of the box) that use the owncloud's REST 
> APIs ?  
> 
> You tell about mobile apps, desktop apps interacting with ownCloud via REST 
> APIs ... you can have a webpage/software in other server, interacting via 
> REST API's with a ownCloud installation in other server.  
> 
> Does that PHP source code (and the HTML views generated for User Experience) 
> need to have the AGPL license ?
> 
> I'm not trying to not credit ownCloud (it has to!), but avoiding to need to 
> give AGPL license to our main software, that would use ownCloud cloud 
> features for files, but nothing else more.
> 

Sorry I wasn't clear here. The licenses don't care about development languages 
or other technologies. The question is if it runs in the same process or not. 
If it runs in the same process then you extend/change ownCloud in the FSF 
definition. In this case you have to choose a compatible license. If your 
software is running in a different process and you only communicate with 
ownCloud via the REST/WebDAV APIs then your software is clearly independent 
from ownCloud. So you can choose any license you want.

So you can choose any license you want in your scenario where you build an 
independent application using PHP that communicates with ownCloud via the 
REST/WebDAV.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Frank


> Thank you Frank
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Frank Karlitschek  
> wrote:
> 
> On 19.12.2013, at 00:03, Tim Atkins  wrote:
> 
> > Hi:
> >
> > I've been reading other similar questions in the forums, but some of them 
> > refer to this mailing list to be safe.
> >
> > We are planing to include owncloud as part of a bigger software, since the 
> > cloud features are solid and good enough (good job! by the way).
> >
> > We do understand the AGPL license, but we want to be sure.
> >
> > If we code new owncloud applications and we don't change the core, that new 
> > programming, as it's addon to the core, would apply AGPL also ? Would we 
> > need to apply AGPL to those addons applications we would do ?
> 
> It depends what addons you mean here.
> Applications who are running "out of process" can have any license you 
> choose. Examples are mobile apps, desktop apps, server applications that 
> interact with ownCloud via WebDAV der the REST APIs and so on. AGPL doesn't 
> restrict anything here.
> 
> Addons that are running in the same process as ownCloud has to have the same 
> license or a compatible license as ownCloud. This is the case for PHP code 
> that is used to extend ownCloud like the ownCloud apps. Compatible licenses 
> are AGPL itself and every other license that has less restrictions for the 
> users like Apache or MIT.
> 
> 
> Frank
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Thank you in advance !
> > ___
> > Owncloud mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
> 
> ___
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> [email protected]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
> 
> ___
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> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud

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Re: [Owncloud] License

2013-12-20 Thread Sebastian Kügler 
On Thursday, December 19, 2013 19:19:28 Tim Atkins wrote:
> And what about a PHP software (out of the box) that use the owncloud's REST
> APIs ?  
> 
> You tell about mobile apps, desktop apps interacting with ownCloud via REST
> APIs ... you can have a webpage/software in other server, interacting via
> REST API's with a ownCloud installation in other server.  
> 
> Does that PHP source code (and the HTML views generated for User Experience)
> need to have the AGPL license ?
> 
> I'm not trying to not credit ownCloud (it has to!), but avoiding to need to
> give AGPL license to our main software, that would use ownCloud cloud
> features for files, but nothing else more.

Common understanding of Free software licensing is that you don't have to make 
your app AGPL.

Here's why you should talk to a lawyer nevertheless:

- interpretation of this licensing situation changes per jurisdiction
- your description may be incomplete to judge the situation
- I am not a lawyer

Cheers,
-- 
sebas

http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9
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Re: [Owncloud] License

2013-12-19 Thread Tim Atkins 
This answer confuses me more ;-)

And what about a PHP software (out of the box) that use the owncloud's REST
APIs ?

You tell about mobile apps, desktop apps interacting with ownCloud via REST
APIs ... you can have a webpage/software in other server, interacting via
REST API's with a ownCloud installation in other server.

Does that PHP source code (and the HTML views generated for User
Experience) need to have the AGPL license ?

I'm not trying to not credit ownCloud (it has to!), but avoiding to need to
give AGPL license to our main software, that would use ownCloud cloud
features for files, but nothing else more.

Thank you Frank



On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Frank Karlitschek wrote:

>
> On 19.12.2013, at 00:03, Tim Atkins  wrote:
>
> > Hi:
> >
> > I've been reading other similar questions in the forums, but some of
> them refer to this mailing list to be safe.
> >
> > We are planing to include owncloud as part of a bigger software, since
> the cloud features are solid and good enough (good job! by the way).
> >
> > We do understand the AGPL license, but we want to be sure.
> >
> > If we code new owncloud applications and we don't change the core, that
> new programming, as it's addon to the core, would apply AGPL also ? Would
> we need to apply AGPL to those addons applications we would do ?
>
> It depends what addons you mean here.
> Applications who are running "out of process" can have any license you
> choose. Examples are mobile apps, desktop apps, server applications that
> interact with ownCloud via WebDAV der the REST APIs and so on. AGPL doesn't
> restrict anything here.
>
> Addons that are running in the same process as ownCloud has to have the
> same license or a compatible license as ownCloud. This is the case for PHP
> code that is used to extend ownCloud like the ownCloud apps. Compatible
> licenses are AGPL itself and every other license that has less restrictions
> for the users like Apache or MIT.
>
>
> Frank
>
>
>
> >
> > Thank you in advance !
> > ___
> > Owncloud mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>
> ___
> Owncloud mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>
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Re: [Owncloud] License

2013-12-19 Thread Frank Karlitschek 

On 19.12.2013, at 00:03, Tim Atkins  wrote:

> Hi:
> 
> I've been reading other similar questions in the forums, but some of them 
> refer to this mailing list to be safe.
> 
> We are planing to include owncloud as part of a bigger software, since the 
> cloud features are solid and good enough (good job! by the way).
> 
> We do understand the AGPL license, but we want to be sure.
> 
> If we code new owncloud applications and we don't change the core, that new 
> programming, as it's addon to the core, would apply AGPL also ? Would we need 
> to apply AGPL to those addons applications we would do ?

It depends what addons you mean here.
Applications who are running "out of process" can have any license you choose. 
Examples are mobile apps, desktop apps, server applications that interact with 
ownCloud via WebDAV der the REST APIs and so on. AGPL doesn't restrict anything 
here.

Addons that are running in the same process as ownCloud has to have the same 
license or a compatible license as ownCloud. This is the case for PHP code that 
is used to extend ownCloud like the ownCloud apps. Compatible licenses are AGPL 
itself and every other license that has less restrictions for the users like 
Apache or MIT.


Frank



> 
> Thank you in advance !
> ___
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> [email protected]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud

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Re: [Owncloud] License

2013-12-19 Thread Stefan Schmidt 
Hello.

On Thu, 2013-12-19 at 09:37, Antonello Carlomagno wrote:
>Hello Tim,
>we had the same problem but no one has been able to answer ... Also in
>other projects.
>It seems that they all apply these licenses but then no one can give
>concrete answers

I'm sure they know pretty well what the license covers and what not.

The point is that you want to hear a legal interpretation from them.
It all comes down to that you want to use their software and you have
legal questions which makes it only logical that you consult your
legal department or lawyer.

If all your changes would be available as Open Source and you would
contribute your changes back none of these questions would arise
anyway.

regards
Stefan Schmidt
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Re: [Owncloud] License

2013-12-19 Thread Antonello Carlomagno 

Hello Tim,
we had the same problem but no one has been able to answer ... Also in 
other projects.
It seems that they all apply these licenses but then no one can give 
concrete answers


kind regards
Antonello

Il 19/12/13 00:11, Tim Atkins ha scritto:
The issue is that I do not how to apply the AGPL license in a software 
which one of the features is to create new applications as addons to 
the core.


If the core is not modified, should that application be affected by 
AGPL and need to be published as AGPL as well ?



On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Derek Broes > wrote:


Call an I lawyer to be sure. That's me.

regards,

Derek Broes

~>?Sent via rooted android. All typos are result of a keyboard
built for hobbit and the dislexic human using it ?<~

On Dec 18, 2013 3:03 PM, "Tim Atkins" mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Hi:

I've been reading other similar questions in the forums, but
some of them refer to this mailing list to be safe.

We are planing to include owncloud as part of a bigger
software, since the cloud features are solid and good enough
(good job! by the way).

We do understand the AGPL license, but we want to be sure.

If we code new owncloud applications and we don't change the
core, that new programming, as it's addon to the core, would
apply AGPL also ? Would we need to apply AGPL to those addons
applications we would do ?

Thank you in advance !

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Re: [Owncloud] License

2013-12-18 Thread Tim Atkins 
The issue is that I do not how to apply the AGPL license in a software
which one of the features is to create new applications as addons to the
core.

If the core is not modified, should that application be affected by AGPL
and need to be published as AGPL as well ?


On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Derek Broes  wrote:

> Call an I lawyer to be sure. That's me.
>
> regards,
>
> Derek Broes
>
> ~>《Sent via rooted android. All typos are result of a keyboard built for
> hobbit and the dislexic human using it 》<~
> On Dec 18, 2013 3:03 PM, "Tim Atkins"  wrote:
>
>> Hi:
>>
>> I've been reading other similar questions in the forums, but some of them
>> refer to this mailing list to be safe.
>>
>> We are planing to include owncloud as part of a bigger software, since
>> the cloud features are solid and good enough (good job! by the way).
>>
>> We do understand the AGPL license, but we want to be sure.
>>
>> If we code new owncloud applications and we don't change the core, that
>> new programming, as it's addon to the core, would apply AGPL also ? Would
>> we need to apply AGPL to those addons applications we would do ?
>>
>> Thank you in advance !
>>
>> ___
>> Owncloud mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>>
>>
> ___
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> [email protected]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>
>
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Re: [Owncloud] License

2013-12-18 Thread Derek Broes 
Call an I lawyer to be sure. That's me.

regards,

Derek Broes

~>《Sent via rooted android. All typos are result of a keyboard built for
hobbit and the dislexic human using it 》<~
On Dec 18, 2013 3:03 PM, "Tim Atkins"  wrote:

> Hi:
>
> I've been reading other similar questions in the forums, but some of them
> refer to this mailing list to be safe.
>
> We are planing to include owncloud as part of a bigger software, since the
> cloud features are solid and good enough (good job! by the way).
>
> We do understand the AGPL license, but we want to be sure.
>
> If we code new owncloud applications and we don't change the core, that
> new programming, as it's addon to the core, would apply AGPL also ? Would
> we need to apply AGPL to those addons applications we would do ?
>
> Thank you in advance !
>
> ___
> Owncloud mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/owncloud
>
>
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