Re: [PD] Any relation between pidip and Gem??
Javier García wrote: But if i delete Gem from my list, i get this: PDP: pure data packet version 0.12.5-darcs /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pidip/pidip.pd_linux: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pidip/pidip.pd_linux: undefined symbol: quicktime_close Why? Im curious... have you compiled pidip yourself? (or updated quicktime after you compiled pidip?) it seems like pidip is searching for libquicktime at the wrong place (where it cannot find it); Gem seems to find it, so pidip can re-use the bindings made available for Gem. try: ~ ldd /path/to/my/pidip.pd_linux and watch out for the libquicktime library (it should tell you the full name it is looking for and that it cannot find it); you will probably have to do some symlinking stuff and editing of /etc/ld.so.conf in order to make pidip work without an auxiliary Gem load. mfg.asdf IOhannes ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] RIP James E. Tittle II
Hallo! Sad to hear this. Guestbook doesn't like my browser so.. Happy hacking James, wherever you have gone. some more photo-links from mathieu: some notes in the piksel04 log: http://www.piksel.no/piksel04/photoblog5.html and a picture of James in his red striped shirt: http://www.piksel.no/piksel04/landmark_tue_02/big/12.jpg clearer photos, a few weeks older, in Graz: http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-09-29/dscn8146.jpg trying t-shirt http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-09-29/dscn8245.jpg with Martin Pichlmair, Cyrille Henry and uh... http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-09-30/dscn8322.jpg with Hans-Christoph Steiner, Lluis Gomez i Bigorda, Yves Degoyon, Tom Schouten, Frank Barknecht, Johannes Zmölnig. http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-10-01/dscn8486.jpg with Thomas Musil http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-10-04/dscn8905.jpg with Alexandre Castonguay and I http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-10-04/dscn8930.jpg http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-10-04/dscn8931.jpg http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-10-04/dscn8947.jpg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [dsplib]: how should it be maintained?
Le mercredi 20 juin 2007 à 14:49 +0200, Roman Haefeli a écrit : as for know, i try to keep things as simple as possible, so that anyone can use netpd without having technical issues (also pd-extended users, course) That must explain why netpd is working so good, thanks dear coordinator, ;). as long as it works, it is fun. and i do believe, that - when considering doing music - you already can do a lot with the actual externals and pd's builtin objects, it is only a matter of how to use them. roman ___ Der frhe Vogel fngt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Any relation between pidip and Gem??
IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Javier García wrote: But if i delete Gem from my list, i get this: PDP: pure data packet version 0.12.5-darcs /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pidip/pidip.pd_linux: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pidip/pidip.pd_linux: undefined symbol: quicktime_close Why? Im curious... have you compiled pidip yourself? (or updated quicktime after you compiled pidip?) it seems like pidip is searching for libquicktime at the wrong place (where it cannot find it); Gem seems to find it, so pidip can re-use the bindings made available for Gem. err, sorry, pidip is not even searching for quicktime, for habitually it's linked and loaded with pdp.. so pidip is searching for libquicktime at the wrong place is _again_ an abuse.. if you don't know, just ask... ciao, sevy ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [GEM]: GL Shader Language
Hi Jack ! Yes. This one-line is very helpful. I'd like to port it to the .pdsettings, but it needs to be parsed and processed, so this script still uses the .pdrc file. :) a 2007/6/20, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sorry Alexandre, in fact, it was very easy under MacOSX (and GNU/Linux i think) with Terminal : cd pdmtl bash ./SETUP-pdrc.s that's all ! Jack Hello Alexandre ! i can't use pdmtl because i change the pd-entended. Can you tell me how to install it. I just put in doc directory, the pdmtl directory. thx Jack Eh Jack ! Very nice examples, yes. Cyrille, do you think that one should understand C programming in order to use Pd? I don't. Of course, its low-level orientation makes it perfect for someone to learn lower level stuff. Anyways, I added an abstraction for shaders in the PdMtlAbstractions. See https://devel.goto10.org/pdmtl/browser/trunk/pdmtl/gems a 2007/6/19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yep, very interesting example ! You can boost Gem with glsl object. Is there workshop in Paris about that Cyrille ? I think, that it would be interesting to do. Jack Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit : On Jun 17, 2007, at 6:58 AM, cyrille henry wrote: hello, Kyle Klipowicz a écrit : Ooop please send any elementary examples of these things. i post a few very diferents shader and the pd patch to use them here : http://drpichon.free.fr/gem_glsl_ch_200070617.zip Wow, these are some nice examples, these should be included in the examples section of Pd-extended. well, i think i should clean up some code and check licence for the shader i did not write. where should i put them in order to include them in pd-extended? cyrille .hc I got confused by the Gem docs (they don't explain OpenGL as thoroughly as the vanilla Pd-docs explain DSP). Gem doc aim is to explain gem specific stuf. but in order to use Gem, you also need a good openGL book. (you can find lot's of them) cyrille ~Kyle On 6/17/07, cyrille henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello, Alexandre Quessy a écrit : Hi all ! The Toon.vert and Toon.frag shaders don't seem to work quite well here. I only get some kind of darker or lighter grey depending on the value of the Phong variable I set it to have. I am using Pd-extended 0.39-2 test 5 on Ubuntu Linux Intel. Gem is 0.91-cvs compiled on Mar 16 2007. Should I generate something any better ? this is exactly what the toon shader is aiming to do. look at it's code to undersant why. Anyone has an other GLSL shader to suggest to try it with ? yes, google has a lot. i have a few other exemple on my computer, tell me if you're looking for some specific stuf. cyrille Thanks !! a 2007/6/16, chris clepper [EMAIL PROTECTED]: GEM is a bit easier to deal with for shaders since there is no need to do any specific wrapper. Any ARB_ vertex or fragment shader and any GLSL shader you find on the web can work in GEM without modification. In some cases you might need to change something in the shader text to deal with rectangle vs 2D textures. On 6/16/07, Cypod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the cycling74 webpage there is an interesting article about writing shaders for jitter: http://cycling74.com/story/2007/5/23/181113/507 is there a similar function available for GEM? Has anyone had experience with doing this? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list http://at.or.at/hans/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Alexandre Quessy http://alexandre.quessy.net http://www.puredata.info/Members/aalex -- Alexandre Quessy http://alexandre.quessy.net http://www.puredata.info/Members/aalex ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list
Re: [PD] Any relation between pidip and Gem??
Yves Degoyon wrote: IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: it seems like pidip is searching for libquicktime at the wrong place (where it cannot find it); Gem seems to find it, so pidip can re-use the bindings made available for Gem. err, sorry, pidip is not even searching for quicktime, for habitually it's linked and loaded with pdp.. so pidip is searching for libquicktime at the wrong place is _again_ an abuse.. if you don't know, just ask... ok, now i do ask: who has abused? who (or what?) has been abused? when has this one been abused before? anyhow, even though i don't know anything about it, i keep on brabbling: javi, it seems that your pdp has been compiled without quicktime support (or against another version of quicktime, which is not available on your computer), but pidip (watch out!) relies on pdp providing quicktime bindings. try ldd pdp.pd_linux | grep libquicktime (in the correct path, or course), and see what it tells you. if it doesn't find anything, then pdp lacks quicktime support; if it refers to an unkown location, you might be able to fix it by symlinking (and/or modifying your /etc/ld.so.conf) and to answer your subject-line: as can be easily seen, the relation between pidip and Gem is of deep love and ab/musement. mfga-sdr IOhannes ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Any relation between pidip and Gem??
hi Yves Degoyon wrote: hola, pidip is searching for libquicktime at the wrong place you should read the entire sentence in my original mail. it said it seems like pidip is searching for libquicktime at the wrong place, which - to my limited knowledge of the english language - expresses an uncertainty about the information on my side (just to stress it: the important part is the it seems) is an affirmation, unjustified and not founded at all, i believe, that expressing uncertainty is _not_ an affirmation. that's where the abuse is, unverified information. this is an interesting definition of abuse. after a bit of research it seems (sic!) like you are referring to something along the lines of the verbal abuse article at wikipedia[1]. all in all i am not entirely sure, who is the abused one. what i believe is true, however, is that we both belong to the group of people who engage in fierce argument, validating the hostility by mirroring it. [1] and now something totally different : what's the status of the moonlibs http://www.moonix.freesurf.fr/ ? did a. rousseau gave up pd? is it included in pd.-extended? in cvs? not to my knowledge (brabbling again...), but since you have write access to the pd-cvs, you could just add it (the license seems(!) to be LGPL, but i have checked only a random sample; probably it would be good to contact a. rousseau before doing so) mfg.asdr IOhannes [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbal_abuse ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] arduino+solenoid concert
Hi! I don't want to insist... but a task like this would be much easier with the http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/SimpleMessageSystem than with something not-as-flexible like Pduino. a ( ;-P ) 2007/6/17, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I think it's more related to the serial object in Max. It's pretty strange and old. Jasch recently ported Pd's comport to Max because he was sick of the Max serial object. .hc On Jun 17, 2007, at 4:36 PM, Thomas Grill wrote: It might be worth mentioning that Max/MSP has a couple of messages to control scheduler accuracy. It's in Options/Performance Options... greetings, Thomas Am 17.06.2007 um 18:41 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner: That's Roman of netpd fame (you can see netpd on the screen). I forgot whether Pduino was used for that or not. I would like to know. A student here at Poly in Brooklyn used Maxduino (the Max/MSP port by Marius Schebella) but had a lot of trouble with timing. I would like to see whether arduino USB can do tight timing like in that video. .hc On Jun 17, 2007, at 12:24 PM, Derek Holzer wrote: Jeff Mann showed us this video in the Arduino workshop at Pickled Feet (Berlin) yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/?v=g_hiz-Kx0kM Great stuff! I'd be interested to hear from the person who made it about the solenoid control circuits (transistor, relay?), or if they'd be interested to share the patch (PDuino?) best, d. -- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/ macumbista ---Oblique Strategy # 68: Faced with a choice, do both ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list - --- Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is related to the telescope. -Edsger Dykstra ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Alexandre Quessy http://alexandre.quessy.net http://www.puredata.info/Members/aalex ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] arduino+solenoid concert
On Thu, 2007-06-21 at 09:21 -0400, Alexandre Quessy wrote: Hi! I don't want to insist... but a task like this would be much easier with the http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/SimpleMessageSystem than with something not-as-flexible like Pduino. a yo, are talking about the task i described here: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-06/051211.html i certainly will have a look at SMS as well... thank you for mentioning it. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] oggcast problems
hi list im trying to make a stream but doesn t work thats the error that appears oggcast could not send ogg header to server -1 i have no idea why thanx a lot rr ¡Descubre una nueva forma de obtener respuestas a tus preguntas! Entra en Yahoo! Respuestas. http://es.answers.yahoo.com/info/welcome ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Any relation between pidip and Gem??
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Johannes Zmölnig wrote: this is an interesting definition of abuse. after a bit of research it seems (sic!) like you are referring to something along the lines of the verbal abuse article at wikipedia[1]. all in all i am not entirely sure, who is the abused one. what i believe is true, however, is that we both belong to the group of people who engage in fierce argument, validating the hostility by mirroring it. [1] Hi, I heard about a fierce argument, so I thought I'd chime in ;) I've much improved my skills in validating the hostility. Here is a very brief sample of it:___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Any relation between pidip and Gem??
Hi, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: have you compiled pidip yourself? (or updated quicktime after you compiled pidip?) I didn't compiled pidip by myself. I have been installing some mov codecs. it seems like pidip is searching for libquicktime at the wrong place (where it cannot find it); Gem seems to find it, so pidip can re-use the bindings made available for Gem. try: ~ ldd /path/to/my/pidip.pd_linux When i try to locate pidip.pd_linux, the terminal shows this: /usr/lib/pd/extra/pidip.pd_linux /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pidip/pidip.pd_linux /usr/local/Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7/lib/pd/extra/pidip/pidip.pd_linux Im not sure but i think i have at least to releases of puredata installed. I had problems installing puredata the first time... For example I dont know what of those two releases I open when i write pd. How can i know it? Anyway, because of the problems that two releases together could give me, should i uninstall every releases and install pd again? br Javi From: IOhannes m zmoelnig [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Javier García [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: PD-list@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] Any relation between pidip and Gem?? Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:22:48 +0200 Javier García wrote: But if i delete Gem from my list, i get this: PDP: pure data packet version 0.12.5-darcs /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pidip/pidip.pd_linux: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pidip/pidip.pd_linux: undefined symbol: quicktime_close Why? Im curious... have you compiled pidip yourself? (or updated quicktime after you compiled pidip?) it seems like pidip is searching for libquicktime at the wrong place (where it cannot find it); Gem seems to find it, so pidip can re-use the bindings made available for Gem. try: ~ ldd /path/to/my/pidip.pd_linux and watch out for the libquicktime library (it should tell you the full name it is looking for and that it cannot find it); you will probably have to do some symlinking stuff and editing of /etc/ld.so.conf in order to make pidip work without an auxiliary Gem load. mfg.asdf IOhannes _ Dale rienda suelta a tu tiempo libre. Mil ideas para exprimir tu ocio con MSN Entretenimiento. http://entretenimiento.msn.es/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] dssi~
Le Jeudi 21 Juin 2007 20:58, victor a écrit : I compiled dssi~ on debian etch (adjunt) but dont appear the text of object's box, using pd extended. snip After that error message I must to restart pd, because only may to see object lines, not text. It's probably due to a bug in Tcl/Tk. I had a similar problem. Installing Tcl/Tk 8.4.14 fixed it. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] cross-correlation in pd ?
Alright here is my last version of the patches. Even if no one else is interested, I consider the problem solved at this point. Whenever the calculations are reset, there is a brief transient. digression: That's because I can't find a way to precisely calculate a signal which represents the sum of squares of s1, as follows: output(k)=sum(i= -32+k:31+k; s1(i)^2) for k=-32:31 in the same block as sxcov~ (I tried to do that first, but no easy solution came up, so I chose something simpler, if only a little less accurate) anyway, each of the patches from previous posts have been modified and corrected. Hopefully, this method gives you the most flexibility for computing sxcov~ and sxcorr~ in real time with abstractions. Chuck On 6/20/07, Charles Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This one works within block sizes of 64, by using an [block~ 128 2] . Now, I've got one where you add an argument and use arbitrary block sizes. It's much more useful, this way. [sxcov~ 2048] works within a blocksize of 2048, and calculates the symmetric cross covariance of two signals. Still having aggravating time, trying to normalize by the proper calculation of variance on each signal. It might be a while before I get it together. Chuck sxcov~.pd Description: Binary data sxcov~-test.pd Description: Binary data sxcorr~.pd Description: Binary data sxcorr~-test.pd Description: Binary data conj_mult~.pd Description: Binary data ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Teaching Pd
Hi Kyle and the list, 2007/6/20, Kyle Klipowicz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi List~ I'm curious about teaching Pd to interested people, and know that a number of you have given workshops on the subject. I could really use some collective wisdom on this. What methods do you use to structure and communicate your course material? How do you market it within the city that you are teaching? What sorts of materials do you use? Artists centers are great. Pd is free as in beer and speech. It is good to explain much how the GUI works, and to help the students to create a common patch (everyone the same) step by step. Go deeply into one instead on trying to cover too much. You can go as far as dollar signs and such in one day, but stick with one or two patches together as a group. You can start with a few examples though. (not goind in too much detail in their explanation) I found this wiki page that has some tutorials http://wiki.dataflow.ws/PdMtlAbstractions/Contents. Is there any other It is a library. Of course you can look in the abstractions files to understand how they work. We would like to have more users in it, and I would like to make it a standard pd library / namespace with categories for even externals some day, in not too long. information about teaching Pd that has been posted? It would be great if there were a space dedicated to Pd-educators to know the tried and true methods of communicating the ideas to new students. For now : http://wiki.dataflow.ws/TeachingPureData ... I know I should use puredata.info, but I am really in love with this little Moinmoin wiki on dataflow.ws ! -- Alexandre Quessy http://alexandre.quessy.net http://www.puredata.info/Members/aalex ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] RIP James E. Tittle II
It makes me think much about how fragile life is. Though, it also makes me think that this not-so-virtual commuity is somewhat like a big family, because these little things (art, pd, interactivity, free software, community) are so important for us. Maybe we should all try to be a bit nicer with each other on the list, and everywhere in life, after all? a 2007/6/21, Georg Holzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hallo! Sad to hear this. Guestbook doesn't like my browser so.. Happy hacking James, wherever you have gone. some more photo-links from mathieu: some notes in the piksel04 log: http://www.piksel.no/piksel04/photoblog5.html and a picture of James in his red striped shirt: http://www.piksel.no/piksel04/landmark_tue_02/big/12.jpg clearer photos, a few weeks older, in Graz: http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-09-29/dscn8146.jpg trying t-shirt http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-09-29/dscn8245.jpg with Martin Pichlmair, Cyrille Henry and uh... http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-09-30/dscn8322.jpg with Hans-Christoph Steiner, Lluis Gomez i Bigorda, Yves Degoyon, Tom Schouten, Frank Barknecht, Johannes Zmölnig. http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-10-01/dscn8486.jpg with Thomas Musil http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-10-04/dscn8905.jpg with Alexandre Castonguay and I http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-10-04/dscn8930.jpg http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-10-04/dscn8931.jpg http://artengine.ca/matju/guckes/2004-10-04/dscn8947.jpg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Alexandre Quessy http://alexandre.quessy.net http://www.puredata.info/Members/aalex ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] arduino+solenoid concert
Hi, 2007/6/21, tim [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Roman Haefeli wrote: On Thu, 2007-06-21 at 09:21 -0400, Alexandre Quessy wrote: Hi! I don't want to insist... but a task like this would be much easier with the http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/SimpleMessageSystem than with something not-as-flexible like Pduino. I agree to that. We did something similar a while ago, with realys, shift-registers and 13 solenoids. It was fairly easy to make one firmware for pd communication with SMS as well as shifting code to drive the relays. More complex passages showed some timing fluctuation, but overall timing was pretty good. Polyphony was kept at a maximum of 4, above that, things became more unstable. So, SMS is signicantly slower because it uses ASCII conversion ? Interesting. Even at high baud rates ? In case you're interested, see www.timvets.net/projects/erkiandtim/poltergeist We obviously were more inclined to drink beer than to shoot film that night...;) Error 404 ! a Tim -- Alexandre Quessy http://alexandre.quessy.net http://www.puredata.info/Members/aalex ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] arduino+solenoid concert
Alexandre Quessy wrote: Hi, 2007/6/21, tim [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Roman Haefeli wrote: On Thu, 2007-06-21 at 09:21 -0400, Alexandre Quessy wrote: Hi! I don't want to insist... but a task like this would be much easier with the http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/SimpleMessageSystem than with something not-as-flexible like Pduino. I agree to that. We did something similar a while ago, with realys, shift-registers and 13 solenoids. It was fairly easy to make one firmware for pd communication with SMS as well as shifting code to drive the relays. More complex passages showed some timing fluctuation, but overall timing was pretty good. Polyphony was kept at a maximum of 4, above that, things became more unstable. So, SMS is signicantly slower because it uses ASCII conversion ? Interesting. Even at high baud rates ? In case you're interested, see www.timvets.net/projects/erkiandtim/poltergeist We obviously were more inclined to drink beer than to shoot film that night...;) Error 404 ! uhm yes, sorry that should be: http://www.timvets.net/projects/erkiandtim/pg/poltergeist.html gr, Tim a Tim ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
