Re: buildout vs virtualenv for pylons and/or other wsgi apps?
Previously Mike Orr wrote: On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Iain Duncan iaindun...@telus.net wrote: Hi folks, I totally do not want to start a flame war here, but was wondering if people could give me their reasons for preferring buildout or virtualenv for automated builds of pylons apps or other wsgi apps. Virtualenv is more popular because it follows traditional Python usage for the most part. You install packages interactively and can change your mind at any time. Buildout's configuration recipes are hard for many people to memorize, and it's more suited to situations where you know ahead of time exactly which libraries you'll need You can change the configuration and rebuild the environment from scratch, but it's not as easy as installing an experimental package, trying it out, and then uninstalling it if you don't like it.So with virtualenv you can use the same tools for development as you use for deployment, whereas buildout is more of a deployment-only thing. I do not fully agree with that: I use buildout for development all the time. One very very important thing buildout adds is repeatability. I can take my buildout and deploy it it any random other machine and be sure that I will have the exact same environment afterwards, down to exact package versions if needed. Adding more librares with buildout is just as simple as with virtualend, the pattern is just a bit different: instead of running easy_install you add declare the new dependency in setup.py and re-run buildout. This has the advantage of guaranteeing that your dependencies are declared correctly: buildout will happily install everything you need and uninstall everything you do not need to keep the system as clean as possible. Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman wich...@wiggy.netIt is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to pylons-discuss+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: buildout vs virtualenv for pylons and/or other wsgi apps?
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Iain Duncan iaindun...@telus.net wrote: Hi folks, I totally do not want to start a flame war here, but was wondering if people could give me their reasons for preferring buildout or virtualenv for automated builds of pylons apps or other wsgi apps. Virtualenv is more popular because it follows traditional Python usage for the most part. You install packages interactively and can change your mind at any time. Buildout's configuration recipes are hard for many people to memorize, and it's more suited to situations where you know ahead of time exactly which libraries you'll need You can change the configuration and rebuild the environment from scratch, but it's not as easy as installing an experimental package, trying it out, and then uninstalling it if you don't like it.So with virtualenv you can use the same tools for development as you use for deployment, whereas buildout is more of a deployment-only thing. On the other hand, buildout has some features virtualenv doesn't, like an egg cache. You can have it build up a shared cache of eggs you've installed, which it can pull from for later installs. easy_install could do this while it downloads things, but it doesn't. There's a new tool pip which is an alternative to easy_install. It also has its advantages and disadvantages, and is worth checking out. -- Mike Orr sluggos...@gmail.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to pylons-discuss+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: buildout vs virtualenv for pylons and/or other wsgi apps?
On Sun, 2008-12-14 at 21:41 -0800, Mike Orr wrote: On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Iain Duncan iaindun...@telus.net wrote: Hi folks, I totally do not want to start a flame war here, but was wondering if people could give me their reasons for preferring buildout or virtualenv for automated builds of pylons apps or other wsgi apps. Virtualenv is more popular because it follows traditional Python usage for the most part. You install packages interactively and can change your mind at any time. Buildout's configuration recipes are hard for many people to memorize, and it's more suited to situations where you know ahead of time exactly which libraries you'll need You can change the configuration and rebuild the environment from scratch, but it's not as easy as installing an experimental package, trying it out, and then uninstalling it if you don't like it.So with virtualenv you can use the same tools for development as you use for deployment, whereas buildout is more of a deployment-only thing. Thanks Mike, that's exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for. What do you use for automating virtualenv based deployments/builds? On the other hand, buildout has some features virtualenv doesn't, like an egg cache. You can have it build up a shared cache of eggs you've installed, which it can pull from for later installs. Could you tell me why this is sometimes advantageous? Thanks Iain --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to pylons-discuss+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: buildout vs virtualenv for pylons and/or other wsgi apps?
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 9:48 PM, Iain Duncan iaindun...@telus.net wrote: On Sun, 2008-12-14 at 21:41 -0800, Mike Orr wrote: On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Iain Duncan iaindun...@telus.net wrote: Hi folks, I totally do not want to start a flame war here, but was wondering if people could give me their reasons for preferring buildout or virtualenv for automated builds of pylons apps or other wsgi apps. Virtualenv is more popular because it follows traditional Python usage for the most part. You install packages interactively and can change your mind at any time. Buildout's configuration recipes are hard for many people to memorize, and it's more suited to situations where you know ahead of time exactly which libraries you'll need You can change the configuration and rebuild the environment from scratch, but it's not as easy as installing an experimental package, trying it out, and then uninstalling it if you don't like it.So with virtualenv you can use the same tools for development as you use for deployment, whereas buildout is more of a deployment-only thing. Thanks Mike, that's exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for. What do you use for automating virtualenv based deployments/builds? Are you trying to build test suites or do a large number of deployments? My deployment method is to make a virtualenv on the target machine, svn export the application and copy it, then make any adjustments needed. So I don't really do anything automated. Are you trying to build test suites or do a large number of identical deployments? If not, the work of setting up an automated build and verifying it's correct (and fixing problems when somebody else deploys it on their computer and it doesn't work) is not necessarily worth it compared to a manual install. On the other hand, buildout has some features virtualenv doesn't, like an egg cache. You can have it build up a shared cache of eggs you've installed, which it can pull from for later installs. Could you tell me why this is sometimes advantageous? It avoids downloading the same package again and rebuilding the egg. -- Mike Orr sluggos...@gmail.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to pylons-discuss+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: buildout vs virtualenv for pylons and/or other wsgi apps?
Are you trying to build test suites or do a large number of deployments? My deployment method is to make a virtualenv on the target machine, svn export the application and copy it, then make any adjustments needed. So I don't really do anything automated. Are you trying to build test suites or do a large number of identical deployments? If not, the work of setting up an automated build and verifying it's correct (and fixing problems when somebody else deploys it on their computer and it doesn't work) is not necessarily worth it compared to a manual install. Hmm, a bit of both I guess. I'm trying to build a continuous integration system for the stuff that is common between various client projects so that I can keep all that in sync automatically while manually doing client specific bits. So at the moment I'm exploring all my options and doing a lot of reading... Thanks Iain --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups pylons-discuss group. To post to this group, send email to pylons-discuss@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to pylons-discuss+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
