Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread Roy Wallace
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Maarten Deenmd...@xs4all.nl wrote: Having a node shared between a bridge and the way underneath may solve one problem but introduces another (having to make a relation to indicate this physical route is not present). Agreed. maxheight needs to be applied to

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: Um...the way would also be close proximity to the bridge, because it passes under it... I don't see how finding a node near a bridge is a particularly elegant solution. And by random I mean the particular node you choose would

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: I'm starting to like this idea. But the problem with this is how to define that section of way, so as not to introduce a maintenance You really don't want to pull on that thread, the same can be said for bridges or virtually

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread Maarten Deen
Roy Wallace wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Maarten Deenmd...@xs4all.nl wrote: Having a node shared between a bridge and the way underneath may solve one problem but introduces another (having to make a relation to indicate this physical route is not present). Agreed. maxheight

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread Roy Wallace
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 3:58 PM, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Tue, 28/7/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: The solution depends on what problem you are trying to solve, if you are trying to find attributes of a bridge or restrictions of a way, my suggestion

Re: [OSM-talk] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread marcus.wolschon
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:22:54 +0200, Aun Johnsen (via Webmail) skipp...@gimnechiske.org wrote: I do not agree that they bouth should be treated as maxheight=* If my car with load that is 3m high, and maxheight=3m, but physical clearance is much higher,than you would pass at the speed limit, but

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread Roy Wallace
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Maarten Deenmd...@xs4all.nl wrote: IMHO it is not that important if the way with the limit is only just beneath the bridge, or is somewhat longer or is applied to nodes on either side of a bridge. I recently came across this example where the way with the

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread Maarten Deen
Roy Wallace wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Maarten Deenmd...@xs4all.nl wrote: IMHO it is not that important if the way with the limit is only just beneath the bridge, or is somewhat longer or is applied to nodes on either side of a bridge. I recently came across this example where

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread Ian Sergeant
Maarten Deenmd...@xs4all.nl wrote: I recently came across this example where the way with the maxheight is a lot longer than strictly necessary. For every day uses this does not really pose a problem. Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: A couple of potential problems with this: What

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread Simon Ward
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 08:11:21AM +1000, Roy Wallace wrote: There are two issues here: 1) what should be tagged and 2) what should it be tagged with. For 1), what should be tagged? Definitely the bridge. For two reasons: firstly, clearance under a bridge is an attribute of the bridge. What

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread marcus.wolschon
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:11:21 +1000, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 9:47 PM, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Mon, 27/7/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: I think the bridge should be tagged. There was an overwhelming response on the

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread Simon Ward
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 08:01:45AM +0100, Simon Ward wrote: What of bridges that cross multiple ways of different heights? Sorry. I see that this has been commented on elsewhere in the thread. Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS data

2009-07-28 Thread Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:22 AM, Aleksejs Mjaliksli...@keeper.lv wrote: Does OSM invalidates GPS data after some time? Otherwise, roads continuously changes and after we will have a big cloud of points that don't make any sense. No, it doesn't. GPX tracks stay where they are forever and

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS data

2009-07-28 Thread Simone Cortesi
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 09:21, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmasonava...@gmail.com wrote: Does OSM invalidates GPS data after some time? Otherwise, roads continuously changes and after we will have a big cloud of points that don't make any sense. No, it doesn't. GPX tracks stay where they are forever and

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS data

2009-07-28 Thread Maarten Deen
Simone Cortesi wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 09:21, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmasonava...@gmail.com wrote: Does OSM invalidates GPS data after some time? Otherwise, roads continuously changes and after we will have a big cloud of points that don't make any sense. No, it doesn't. GPX tracks stay

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com wrote: 2) Not only bridges have maxheight but also parking-lots, tunnels, ... and trees even if they aren't explicitly signed.

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS data

2009-07-28 Thread Liz
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009, Simone Cortesi wrote: Does OSM invalidates GPS data after some time? Otherwise, roads continuously changes and after we will have a big cloud of points that don't make any sense. No, it doesn't. GPX tracks stay where they are forever and continue being served by

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS data

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: But there is no way to determine if a particular GPS track is outdated. Sure, you can look at the map and say I don't see a physical road for this track, but how would you identify GPS points of a track that is invalid? Especialy

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS data

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: please , don't drop data for many areas we are lucky to have one trace and it may be a year or more before another mapper goes back there consider having access to older data in separate sets if there is concern about using old gps

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS data

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, Simone Cortesi sim...@cortesi.com wrote: GPS are becoming more precise. older tracks are, on a general basis, You can't make assumptions of the quality of the data based simply on how recently it was added, someone might be using an old piece of GPS kit they were given

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: For maxspeed (your example), the restriction should be applied to the Exactly, you may have to break a way up to apply maxspeed tags to several different parts of what was originally a single way. Exactly the same as a bridge,

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS data

2009-07-28 Thread Roman Neumüller
This doesn't make sense to me. At least there should be a timestamp of gpx-files which tells us when they've been uploaded so that one could filter them a la show me gpx-files not older than 3 years ! Roman On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:22 AM, Aleksejs Mjaliksli...@keeper.lv wrote: Does OSM

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS data

2009-07-28 Thread Simone Cortesi
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 09:59, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Tue, 28/7/09, Simone Cortesi sim...@cortesi.com wrote: GPS are becoming more precise. older tracks are, on a general basis, You can't make assumptions of the quality of the data based simply on how recently it

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS data

2009-07-28 Thread Simone Cortesi
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 09:58, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: consider having access to older data in separate sets if there is concern about using old gps tracks, just don't drop any because it is old (like some of us) Maybe the best option is to let people stipulate how many

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS data

2009-07-28 Thread Stéphane Brunner
Hello ! One think I think it can be useful is a tool for editing all our old trace : - easy to download all our trace - easy to remove unprecise segment (in some old my trace I have some segment who is 50 m wrong !) - easy to simplify them - easy to re-upload modified trace ! I think that a tool

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS data

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, Simone Cortesi sim...@cortesi.com wrote: I'm talking in the long run. Not something to be done in the coming moths. Still we are just 5 years old. And not many roads did change shape in this short period of time. Some areas have lots of road duplication construction

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS data

2009-07-28 Thread Maarten Deen
John Smith wrote: --- On Tue, 28/7/09, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: But there is no way to determine if a particular GPS track is outdated. Sure, you can look at the map and say I don't see a physical road for this track, but how would you identify GPS points of a track that is

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS data

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote: That is not indicative. A road could remain unchanged for the last 100 years or could have been demolished last year. What would be the expiration time of a track? And would you be prepared to lose correct GPS data to do this? Also

Re: [OSM-talk] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread Aun Johnsen (via Webmail)
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:25:34 +0200, marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com wrote: On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:22:54 +0200, Aun Johnsen (via Webmail) skipp...@gimnechiske.org wrote: I do not agree that they bouth should be treated as maxheight=* If my car with load that is 3m high, and maxheight=3m, but

[OSM-talk] Results from the first Vietnamese Mapping Party last 18th July

2009-07-28 Thread Ivan Garcia
Hi everyone, We are really sorry for being late to send u the result of Mapping Party on last 18th July: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/HanoiMappingParty2009 Around 15 people assisted to the conferences and to the party, with 5 GPS they divided themselves into 5 groups of 3 people each. On

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread Sybren A . Stüvel
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 09:07:56AM +0200, marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com wrote: The way below the bridge does not intersect the bridge at all. There is no reference from the street below to indicate that there is a bridge at all. You would have to analyse the location and vector of all other

[OSM-talk] Old GPS Data

2009-07-28 Thread René Affourtit
Sorry to break the threading, Maybe it's an idea to allow users to specify an area where traces are outdated? So when a junction is reconstructed a local user can place a bounding box over that junction and all GPS points in that box are marked as outdated (or deleted, or whatever). Maybe some

Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - information

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com wrote: What about those information offices that exist on estates where they try and sell you a block of land and/or a house, sometimes a demo house is used as an office, but I've seen little shacks put up as well. Because of

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS Data

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, René Affourtit raffour...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe it's an idea to allow users to specify an area where traces are outdated? So when a junction is reconstructed a local user can place a bounding box over that junction and all GPS points in that box are marked as

Re: [OSM-talk] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread marcus.wolschon
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:27:52 +0200, Aun Johnsen (via Webmail) skipp...@gimnechiske.org wrote: I am not using maxheight in any of the metrics that involve a travel-time to optimize for so it has no effect on the route other then allowing or disallowing that path at all. Thus at least for me

[OSM-talk] Important radio frequencies was: [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - information

2009-07-28 Thread André Riedel
2009/7/26 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net: Can you suggest how I would map the sign Tourist Radio 88.1 which gives the frequency to tune your FM receiver for the information I am not sure that a sign would help us. But it could be interested if we have tag with important  radio frequencies of

Re: [OSM-talk] Important radio frequencies was: [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - information

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com wrote: Radio with actual trafic information often found at the beginning of a tunnel radio:traffic = 92.4 MHz Some tunnels broadcast across the entire FM radio range if there is accidents and instructions to motorists. Not sure

Re: [OSM-talk] Important radio frequencies was: [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - information

2009-07-28 Thread Marc Coevoet
John Smith schreef: --- On Tue, 28/7/09, André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com wrote: Radio with actual trafic information often found at the beginning of a tunnel radio:traffic = 92.4 MHz Some tunnels broadcast across the entire FM radio range if there is accidents and

[OSM-talk] Thoughts on an enhanced GPX api

2009-07-28 Thread Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:04 AM, René Affourtitraffour...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry to break the threading I can break threading too! So when a junction is reconstructed a local user can place a bounding box over that junction and all GPS points in that box are marked as outdated (or deleted,

Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on an enhanced GPX api

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com wrote: * The data is versioned, and anyone can edit it I have a lot of GPX tracks that could be improved, e.g. by deleting I'd say deleting sections, but not editing... Only very erroneous information should be touched up by

Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on an enhanced GPX api

2009-07-28 Thread Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:49 AM, John Smithdelta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Tue, 28/7/09, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com wrote: * The data is versioned, and anyone can edit it I have a lot of GPX tracks that could be improved, e.g. by deleting I'd say deleting sections,

Re: [OSM-talk] Important radio frequencies was: [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - information

2009-07-28 Thread Marc Coevoet
André Riedel schreef: I am not sure that a sign would help us. But it could be interested if we have tag with important  radio frequencies of an area or especially of a tunnel. Radio with actual trafic information often found at the beginning of a tunnel radio:traffic = 92.4 MHz I

Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on an enhanced GPX api

2009-07-28 Thread Tom Hughes
On 28/07/09 11:33, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:04 AM, René Affourtitraffour...@gmail.com wrote: * All the data is losslessly inserted into the database This means that we can get waypoint/segment/time/ele/whatever data out again. It would probably be simplest

Re: [OSM-talk] Old GPS data

2009-07-28 Thread Yann Coupin
Also, and I've already posted here about that a while ago, it would really help if hdop, and eventually vdop, wasn't lost in the anonymization process. This is an important data when tracing, but unless you know who published the track and you can download the source, you don't have access

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread Greg Troxel
Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com writes: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Stephen Hopeslh...@gmail.com wrote: No, you're wrong here. Maxheight is an element of the way that goes under the bridge. It is caused by the bridge, but it is not part of the bridge. You're saying that the

[OSM-talk] Broken formatting of Wiki pages

2009-07-28 Thread Peter Miller
Many of the UK wiki pages with 'place' and 'slippery map' templates are badly formatted, but not all. This one is badly formatted:- http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Sussex and this one as well:- http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/County_Durham But this one is fine:-

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Thoughts on an enhanced GPX api

2009-07-28 Thread Shaun McDonald
On 28 Jul 2009, at 12:15, Tom Hughes wrote: The start point in the trace table, which isn't very useful, could be replaced by a bounding box to allow bbox queries - that's something that I have been thinking about doing for a while. I thought Potlatch used it for the edit links. Shaun

Re: [OSM-talk] Important radio frequencies was: [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - information

2009-07-28 Thread Marc Coevoet
Hello, I put a list for the fm online at http://users.fulladsl.be/~spb13810/research/ukwlist.gz format: name ; freq; lat; long Can you upload that to osm @ once ?? ;-) I use the tools on linux like: cut -c 5-35 UKW.TXT ukwloc cut -c 62-69 UKW.TXT ukwlat cut -c 70-76 UKW.TXT

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Thoughts on an enhanced GPX api

2009-07-28 Thread René Affourtit
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmasonava...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:04 AM, René Affourtitraffour...@gmail.com wrote: So when a junction is reconstructed a local user can place a bounding box over that junction and all GPS points in that box are marked as

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Thoughts on an enhanced GPX api

2009-07-28 Thread Tom Hughes
On 28/07/09 12:36, Shaun McDonald wrote: On 28 Jul 2009, at 12:15, Tom Hughes wrote: The start point in the trace table, which isn't very useful, could be replaced by a bounding box to allow bbox queries - that's something that I have been thinking about doing for a while. I thought

Re: [OSM-talk] Broken formatting of Wiki pages

2009-07-28 Thread Maarten Deen
Peter Miller wrote: Many of the UK wiki pages with 'place' and 'slippery map' templates are badly formatted, but not all. This one is badly formatted:- http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Sussex and this one as well:- http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/County_Durham But this one is

Re: [OSM-talk] Broken formatting of Wiki pages

2009-07-28 Thread Maarten Deen
Maarten Deen wrote: Peter Miller wrote: Many of the UK wiki pages with 'place' and 'slippery map' templates are badly formatted, but not all. This one is badly formatted:- http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/East_Sussex and this one as well:-

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Thoughts on an enhanced GPX api

2009-07-28 Thread Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:43 AM, René Affourtitraffour...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmasonava...@gmail.com wrote: I have a lot of GPX tracks that could be improved, e.g. by deleting point clouds. I'd like to edit them using normal OSM tools, have

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Thoughts on an enhanced GPX api

2009-07-28 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: The problem with this is that it's a broken solution to an already limited system. We shouldn't have to /remove/ GPS tracks depending on age, but rather have the ability to mark segments or points of them as trusted (amongst other things). To be honest, I

Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline

2009-07-28 Thread David Groom
- Original Message - From: Martijn van Oosterhout klep...@gmail.com To: Openstreetmap talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Forward to ML. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Martijn van Oosterhoutklep...@gmail.com wrote: On

[OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
Is there a real need for is_in tags or have admin boundaries replaced the need? It seems there is a lot of redundancy going on for example node id = 17652780 aeroway = aerodrome closest_town = Newcastle, New South Wales ele = 9 iata = NTL icao = YWLM is_in = Australia, NSW, New South Wales

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread Shaun McDonald
On 28 Jul 2009, at 13:43, John Smith wrote: Is there a real need for is_in tags or have admin boundaries replaced the need? Admin boundaries are the new way of doing this. The is_in tag was the early way of trying to show a hierarchy of admin areas. Shaun smime.p7s Description:

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote: Admin boundaries are the new way of doing this. The is_in tag was the early way of trying to show a hierarchy of admin areas. Ok, so is_in is redundant. There was talk on the dev list about removing a bunch of tiger tags

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/7/28 Liz ed...@billiau.net: To return to the bridge the following attributes of the bridge and the road underneath it all need to be considered a) Height of bridge height tag on bridge way b) Height above sea level of the bridge ele tag on bridge way c) Max height of the arch of the

Re: [OSM-talk] Thoughts on an enhanced GPX api

2009-07-28 Thread Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Tom Hughest...@compton.nu wrote: On 28/07/09 11:33, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:04 AM, René Affourtitraffour...@gmail.com  wrote: * All the data is losslessly inserted into the database This means that we can get

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread David Earl
Shaun McDonald wrote: On 28 Jul 2009, at 13:43, John Smith wrote: Is there a real need for is_in tags or have admin boundaries replaced the need? Admin boundaries are the new way of doing this. The is_in tag was the early way of trying to show a hierarchy of admin areas. It is

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
Perhaps the more appropriate question would be what are appropriate tag keys that could be used in combination with the tag place=*? So far all I can come up with is name and possibly source. I'm primarily only looking at aussie data so I may have over looked things. is_in seems to have

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote: It is still *very* helpful to have is_in present though. It is much easier to present this information in a search than to do polygon tests which requires a whole new algorithm (desirable though that is), and of course,

Re: [OSM-talk] Broken formatting of Wiki pages

2009-07-28 Thread Grant Slater
2009/7/28 Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl: I changed the Geohack for OSM part on Template:place a bit. It looks better on the template page, but it appears the template is cached so it might take a little time before the pages look better. It should say More maps on Geohack for OSM in the

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread David Earl
John Smith wrote: --- On Tue, 28/7/09, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote: It is still *very* helpful to have is_in present though. It is much easier to present this information in a search than to do polygon tests which requires a whole new algorithm (desirable though that is),

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread andrzej zaborowski
2009/7/28 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: Perhaps the more appropriate question would be what are appropriate tag keys that could be used in combination with the tag place=*? So far all I can come up with is name and possibly source. I'm primarily only looking at aussie data so I may

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote: But until we do, the existing mechanism does no harm, and Apart from massively bloating the database due to massive amounts of redundant and/or useless information that doesn't gain us anything. as I said, you don't always

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: What if boundary is not defined but the hierarchy is defined, such as with post codes?  Should people invent boundary polygons based on just what nodes/ways belong to the area?  I hope not. Why spend just as much time tagging

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread Shaun McDonald
On 28 Jul 2009, at 15:35, John Smith wrote: --- On Tue, 28/7/09, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: What if boundary is not defined but the hierarchy is defined, such as with post codes? Should people invent boundary polygons based on just what nodes/ways belong to the area? I

Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline

2009-07-28 Thread Chris Hill
David Groom wrote: - Original Message - From: "Martijn van Oosterhout" klep...@gmail.com To: "Openstreetmap" talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:46 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline Forward to ML. On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Martijn van

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread Donald Allwright
But until we do, the existing mechanism does no harm, and as I said, you don't always know the boundary while you do know where the place is. Determining the inclusion of every place in the database, even if we had complete information, is massively more complex than simply being told the

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote: Only use the is_in tag on the place nodes rather than every node. Why? The reasoning I've been given so far is for routing, but to find such information routing software would have to look at all nodes near by until it

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, Donald Allwright donald_allwri...@yahoo.com wrote: (I'm not volunteering to write the checker, but I would certainly be willing to spend time looking at any errors thus detected). This came up because I've started writing a checker to find certain tag combinations and

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread andrzej zaborowski
2009/7/28 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: --- On Tue, 28/7/09, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: What if boundary is not defined but the hierarchy is defined, such as with post codes?  Should people invent boundary polygons based on just what nodes/ways belong to the area?  I

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread David Earl
John Smith wrote: --- On Tue, 28/7/09, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote: Only use the is_in tag on the place nodes rather than every node. Why? The reasoning I've been given so far is for routing, but to find such information routing software would have to look at all

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: Both for the time spent tagging and space used in database, perhaps there might be some saving from using polygons but it depends on the exact scenario.  Either way, don't add the tags you I doubt I can agree that using

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread MarkS
John Smith wrote: --- On Tue, 28/7/09, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote: Admin boundaries are the new way of doing this. The is_in tag was the early way of trying to show a hierarchy of admin areas. Ok, so is_in is redundant. There was talk on the dev list about

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote: We can give ourselves a helping hand here if we keep is_in. That's assuming the information contained in it is useful to begin with, as I keep stating the information I've seen is inconsistent so that's not helping any one.

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, MarkS o...@redcake.co.uk wrote: We need to be careful about removing tags because it could cause renderers to fail (or at least not work as expected). For example, I think the is_in tag is added after the place name in mkgmap when creating the city POIs. That's

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread Andy Allan
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 4:09 PM, David Earlda...@frankieandshadow.com wrote: The reason I gave was for name searching, not routing. It allows the result of a search to be given a descriptive context that isn't currently possible any other way. It allows the result of a search to be given a

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: Let's stop the is_in debate - yes, they are useful to data consumers, no, they shouldn't be in OSM itself, and no, nobody has yet stepped up to sort it out. U I am stepping up to sort it out, at least for some parts of

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread MarkS
John Smith wrote: --- On Tue, 28/7/09, MarkS o...@redcake.co.uk wrote: We need to be careful about removing tags because it could cause renderers to fail (or at least not work as expected). For example, I think the is_in tag is added after the place name in mkgmap when creating the city

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread andrzej zaborowski
2009/7/28 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: --- On Tue, 28/7/09, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote: We can give ourselves a helping hand here if we keep is_in. That's assuming the information contained in it is useful to begin with, as I keep stating the information I've seen is

[OSM-talk] Poll: Syntax for restrictions with conditions

2009-07-28 Thread Tobias Knerr
Hi, some of you might know my proposal http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Extended_conditions_for_access_tags or its predecessor, Conditions for access tags. The proposal presents the idea of adding conditions to existing keys (such as maxspeed, access ...). A tag with

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: Data being wrong is a moot point, it doesn't speak for either is_in tags or boundary polygons and neither help make data more correct really. data being stored consistently is the point.

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread andrzej zaborowski
2009/7/28 Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com: Let's stop the is_in debate - yes, they are useful to data consumers, no, they shouldn't be in OSM itself, and no, nobody has yet stepped up to sort it out. One of the two ways to indicate belonging to an area should not be in OSM, agreed. Why's

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 28/7/09, MarkS o...@redcake.co.uk wrote: I'm not against getting rid of is_in, I just think we need to manage the change over a fair period of time to give the renderers a chance to catch up. It's irrelevant if place nodes don't already have is_in and instead of adding

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] planet hourly diff generation stopped 20090627 19:00

2009-07-28 Thread Grant Slater
2009/7/27 Ciprian Talaba cipriantal...@gmail.com: And no daily diffs since July 25th. Fixed now. 20090727-20090728.osc.gz is current. / Grant ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread David Earl
Andy Allan wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 4:09 PM, David Earlda...@frankieandshadow.com wrote: The reason I gave was for name searching, not routing. It allows the result of a search to be given a descriptive context that isn't currently possible any other way. It allows the result of a

Re: [OSM-talk] Important radio frequencies was: [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - information

2009-07-28 Thread simon
Hi, I started the process of getting tags for transmitters 'approved', these may be of use for you. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dtower http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Communications_Transponder What you really need is some way to link a transmitter as a

Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] maxheight/height

2009-07-28 Thread Christoph Böhme
Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com schrieb: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Ross Scanloni...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Does this mean the bridge has a clearance of 2.8 or the road under the bridge has a clearance of 2.8.  To me this would suggest the bridge has a limit of 2.8 ie vehicles

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread Andy Allan
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:20 PM, David Earlda...@frankieandshadow.com wrote: Andy Allan wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 4:09 PM, David Earlda...@frankieandshadow.com wrote: The reason I gave was for name searching, not routing. It allows the result of a search to be given a descriptive

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread OJ W
Could someone[1] setup a web-service where you send it a lat/lon and it returns a list of all boundaries that point is within? So just one website imports the boundary data instead of everyone having to know how to do the 'is within' search[2]. Namefinder could then query this to add its own

Re: [OSM-talk] i18n-rich areas on the map

2009-07-28 Thread Mikel Maron
Very good point, and feature suggestion. I've started a wiki page on this project. Please contribute! http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Translation_Interface From: Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com To: Subhodip Biswas subhodipbis...@gmail.com; Mikel Maron

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread gary
Have a look at boundaries.pl in the wiki -- Urspr. Mitt. -- Betreff: Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags Von: OJ W ojwli...@googlemail.com Datum: 28.07.2009 19:33 Could someone[1] setup a web-service where you send it a lat/lon and it returns a list of all boundaries that point is within? So

Re: [OSM-talk] is_in and similar tags

2009-07-28 Thread Christoph Böhme
OJ W ojwli...@googlemail.com schrieb: Could someone[1] setup a web-service where you send it a lat/lon and it returns a list of all boundaries that point is within? So just one website imports the boundary data instead of everyone having to know how to do the 'is within' search[2]. I think

Re: [OSM-talk] i18n-rich areas on the map

2009-07-28 Thread Emilie Laffray
Mikel Maron wrote: Very good point, and feature suggestion. I've started a wiki page on this project. Please contribute! http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Translation_Interface Hello, one of the thing that I am working on (at least initially on design) is a translation website, as I

Re: [OSM-talk] Business listings

2009-07-28 Thread Jack Stringer
Should we be charging to upgrade businesses details on OSM? I think it should be free. You could pay OSM to have a OSM member put all the details onto the map for them, saving them signing up etc. But I would not like to see charging being the norm. Only because OSM exists as a free map service,

[OSM-talk] FW: OPENSTREETMAP FOUNDATION - NOTICE OF ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING

2009-07-28 Thread Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists)
Please forward to your local lists and provide translation as required. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: Andy Robinson (OSMF) [mailto:a...@osmfoundation.org] Sent: 28 July 2009 8:37 PM To: 'osmf-t...@openstreetmap.org' Subject: OPENSTREETMAP FOUNDATION - NOTICE OF ANNUAL GENERAL

Re: [OSM-talk] Coastline

2009-07-28 Thread Jon Burgess
On Mon, 2009-07-27 at 10:37 +0100, David Groom wrote: - Original Message - From: Chris Hill chillly...@yahoo.co.uk To: OSM Talk talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 3:22 PM Subject: [OSM-talk] Coastline I have altered the coastline in the Humber estuary, UK

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