Re: [TruthTalk] Sources of Truth

2004-04-21 Thread Lance Muir
DM wrote: what further clarification...?Biblical interpretation and theological understanding . go hand in hand...these Holy Scriptures are correlated to God's self revelation..they themselves may not be interpreted aright except in the light of the knowledge of God which He continues to mediate

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Lance Muir
No person from the first to the last is excluded from that which is accomplished in the second Adam, Jesus. Some have referred to this as a "double movement" : God toward man and man toward God.Both take place in the God/Man.You two (DM JT) perhaps along with others on TT are saying: This

Re: [TruthTalk] Language-Syntax-Semantics as they relate to:

2004-04-21 Thread Lance Muir
With someone like yourself, a very model of Christian "unity" and "harmony" as a contributor, I've no difficulty whatsoever imagining these 250+ persons speaking with essentially one voice on matters pertaining to God and the Gospel.May I have a chorus of Amens from the assembled TT

Re: [TruthTalk] Forgiveness/Repentance

2004-04-21 Thread Lance Muir
It's good to have another contributor. On this matter would you just outline for me what you believe to be the "sequence"? Who are the "players"? What happened to bring about a "falling out of favor between them"? How then does a "coming back together" actually taking place"? I seem to sense

Re: [TruthTalk] Forgiveness/Repentance

2004-04-21 Thread Lance Muir
In his new book"the Passion of Jesus Christ", John Piper lists "fifty reasons why He came to die". Reason #1 To absorb the wrath of God. May I take a poll, not as to this reason being #1 but rather, do you all agree that this should be on the list as stated? Blessings, Lance -

[TruthTalk] Language-Syntax-Semantics as they relate to:

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
Very cute Lance. You just can't seem to get away from the ad-hominem can you? How true thatthe student becomeslike teacher and Calvinists do so resemble their master in spite of the obvious. Being void of mercy is not a godly trait. You ask no questions and form harsh opinions with scant

[TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] No person from the first to the last is excluded from that which is accomplished in the second Adam, Jesus. jt: Of course they are - everyone who loves and believes the lie is automatically excluded. Some have referred to this as a "double movement" :

[TruthTalk] Forgiveness/Repentance

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
Why not see what Jesus Himself says about the "reason he came into this world?" He says why in John 9:39 "For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind" Certainly does notsound so "all inclusive" to me. Perhaps the

Re: [TruthTalk] Elohim takes Mary as wife

2004-04-21 Thread Kevin Deegan
In order to make this as simple as possible. I will use a text prepared for little children. I will only quote it up to a point, where I will then ask a question. All you TTer's feel free to answer Jenny'squestion! FAMILY HOME EVENING 1972 Corporation of the President of the C of J C of L D S pg

Re: [TruthTalk] Violation of I Timothy 2

2004-04-21 Thread Kevin Deegan
ROTFL This place gets wierder every day!Daniel Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Truth Talk Subscribers:Joyous New Moon Greetings (see Isaiah 66) in the Matchless Name of YahShua (Jesus)!!!A couple of days ago, Brother Chris informed me that he posted my article on Romans 7 to this forum and got

Re: [TruthTalk] Forgiveness/Repentance

2004-04-21 Thread Lance Muir
Izzy: No trap! I've got nothing against repentance. It's just that I believe that it follows being forgiven. Blessings, Lance - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: April 21, 2004 07:46 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]

RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Jonathan Hughes
Hi Judy, Please consider the following quotes: When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. Adams sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. And though there was no law to break, since it had not yet

RE: [TruthTalk] Sources of Truth

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
Lance wrote: ... (what of) disagreements that are not overcome merely by appeal to the Holy Scriptures. ... APPEAL MUST BE MADE BEYOND ALL ECCLESIASTICAL AUTHORITY OR BIBLICAL CITATION TO THE truth of God for that is the supreme authority to which all must submit and on which everyone

RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
Lance wrote: No person from the first to the last is excluded from that which is accomplished in the second Adam, Jesus. Some have referred to this as a double movement: God toward man and man toward God. Both take place in the God/Man. I don't think I have much of a problem with this

RE: [TruthTalk] Forgiveness/Repentance

2004-04-21 Thread ShieldsFamily
Oh, well, at least you think it is necessary. Kind of like the faith and works thing. J Izzy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 6:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Forgiveness/Repentance

RE: [TruthTalk] Forgiveness/Repentance

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
Lance wrote: I've got nothing against repentance. It's just that I believe that it follows being forgiven. Why then, in the following story that Jesus told, does it appear that the publican's repentance resulted in his justification before God whereas the unrepentant Pharisee remained

RE: [TruthTalk] When do the unborn have a spirit and soul?

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
Jim Elsman wrote: I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A COUPLE OF YOUR IDEAS: 1. HOW CAN YOU KNOW THAT YOU CONCEIVED A CHILD AT THAT VERY MOMENT OF CONCEPTION, WITH ACCURACY? EVEN YOUR WIFE DID NOT KNOW, NOR COULD NOT HAVE KNOWN. THIS IS SCIENCE. YOU HAVE DEPARTED FROM SCIENCE. PEOPLE HAVE TO

Re: [TruthTalk] Forgiveness/Repentance

2004-04-21 Thread LaurHamm
In a message dated 4/21/2004 5:39:08 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In his new book"the Passion of Jesus Christ", John Piper lists "fifty reasons why He came to die". Reason #1 To absorb the wrath of God. May I take a poll, not as to this reason being #1 but rather, do you

Re: [TruthTalk] Language-Syntax-Semantics as they relate to:

2004-04-21 Thread Lance Muir
JT said: 250+ women..most of the time we all say the same thing. On TT..different theologians...doctrines of demons..Judy, wherein have I misrepresented you? Jonathan perhaps spoke with more kindness than many concerning your "attitude" and, we have yet to hear (read) your response.

RE: [TruthTalk] Forgiveness/Repentance

2004-04-21 Thread Hughes Jonathan
Hi David, I hold the same position as Lance does here. Grace is always first. First of all the story below was before Christ died and rose again. I would suggest that the forgiveness for all of our sins is included in what Christ did on the cross. If Christ can say, It is finished then it

RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Hughes Jonathan
Hi David, Hope you don't mind me answering your questions as well. 1) I do not hold to Calvin's concept of Limit Atonement. I know of no other doctrine that has done as much damage to the Church as this one. That being said I deeply respect Calvin and understand why he formulated this

Re: [TruthTalk] Forgiveness/Repentance

2004-04-21 Thread Chris Barr
\o/ !HALALU Yah! \o/ Greetings y'all in the Matchless Name of YahShua ! - Original Message - From: "Hughes Jonathan" Sent: 04/21/2004 9:29 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Forgiveness/Repentance JH wrote: If Christ can say, "It is finished" then it either is finished (taken care

[TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
From: "Jonathan Hughes" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Hi Judy, Please consider the following quotes:When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. Adams sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. And though there was no law

Re: [TruthTalk] Forgiveness/Repentance

2004-04-21 Thread Chris Barr
\o/ !HALALU Yah! \o/ Greetings Jonathan et al in the Matchless Name of YahShua ! You may ignore any part of any reply that I make. That is a free will issue. Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, (Bless The LORD) Bro. Chris a servant of YHVH

[TruthTalk] Violation of I Timothy 2

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
Firebrand is right :) Just the wrong kind of fire. Are you still on the road Kevin? judyt From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] ROTFL This place gets wierder every day!Daniel Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Truth Talk Subscribers:Joyous New Moon Greetings (see Isaiah 66) in the

[TruthTalk] 'It is finished'

2004-04-21 Thread Chris Barr
\o/ !HALALU Yah! \o/ Greetings y'all in the Matchless Name of YahShua ! Those awesome three words refer to the payment made for sin (as opposed to "sins"). That is "it". YahShua died so that I don't have to die ... yet most will anyway. YahShua rose so that I might live ... yet most

Re: [TruthTalk] Elohim takes Mary as wife

2004-04-21 Thread Kevin Deegan
DAVEH SAYS: Give us the quotes, Kevin. If they don't specifically say "physical contact" or "sexual intercourse", then your interpretation that is vastly different (and opposite) of my belief, and the belief of all the other LDS folks I know. I've never met an LDS person who understands it the

[TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
Jonathan, I wanted to address your concern below. My big concern here is that I think most people give Adam far more credit than Christ. We are so quick to show how we have all sinned in Adam but rarely will you hear that we all rose again in Christ. The passage above clearly compares

[TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]Judy Taylor wrote: a) A covenant by nature requires the death of both parties. DAVEH: I'm lost on this one, Judy. Would you be so kind as to explain why you believe such, please? jt: I may not have expressed myselfvery well but blood covenants are

Re: [TruthTalk] fyi~g

2004-04-21 Thread ttxpress
G, we may never agree on Polanyi. I know we share a great respect for Calvin and his Institutes. And U2 has long been one of my favorite groups. Maybe two out of three ain't bad? Thanks for sharing this. Bill Bill, What's the relationship betw the Bible, John Calvin, Polanyi, and U2?

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Terry Clifton
Jonathan Hughes wrote: Yes, Adams one sin brought condemnation upon everyone, but Christs one act of righteousness makes all people right in Gods sight and gives them life. You are making no sense to me whatsoever. All people are not right in God's sight. Most of

RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Hughes Jonathan
Hi Terry, This is not my sentence. This is a direct quote from Romans. This is Paul's sentence. Jonathan Hughes Supervisor of Application Support Kingsway Financial 905-629-7888 x. 2471 -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Terry

[TruthTalk] PROOF WANTING RE A MILLER MOMENT

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
Mr. Elsmanlaw, Have you ever considered putting 2 Corinthians 10:5 into operation in your life as a believer? You have some wild imagination - I would try to reign it in if I were you. What kind ofPentecostal is this judyt DAVID, RESPECTING THAT THE MARRIAGE BED IS UNDEFILED, AND THAT

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Chris Barr
\o/ !HALALU Yah! \o/ Greetings Jonathan et al in the Matchless Name of YahShua ! - Original Message - From: Hughes Jonathan Sent: 04/21/2004 12:49 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism This is not my sentence. This is a direct quote from Romans. This is Paul's sentence.

[TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
Terry This looks like Romans 5:19 from the New Living translation which is a paraphrase. andyou probably read from the "majority text" which is why you don'trecognize this phraseas being "the words of Paul". The KJV reads "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the

RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Hughes Jonathan
Note that the New Living translation is just that, a translation, not a paraphrase. Do not confuse this with the Living Bible which was a paraphrase. I have listed a bunch of translations below: The KJV (far from a "majority text" in our day and age) is as follows: 12 ¶

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Wm. Taylor
Hey Judy, what have I missed? From where does this quote originate: "The Lord knows those who are his and let everyone who names the name of the Lord claim by faith in their doctrine that the atonement covers theiriniquity?" (see 2 Timothy 2:9). Bill - Original Message -

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Terry Clifton
What kind of Bible you usin' Jonathan? I checked three versions and none of them say,"all people are now right in God's sight". Terry .Hughes Jonathan wrote: Hi Terry, This is not my sentence. This is a direct quote from Romans. This is Paul's sentence. Jonathan Hughes

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Terry Clifton
Hey Judy: I checked three versions and that wording was not in any of them. I see a giant gap between "MANY" and "ALL". One word change changes the whole message. Thanks for telling me where he got his info, 'Cause I knew it wasn't in my Bibles. Terry Judy Taylor wrote: Terry

[TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
It's what I am hearing from you, Lance, and Jonathan - and what the committe of Baptists who worked on the New Living Translation apparently believed when they changed Romans 5:19 to read as: 'Yes, Adam’s one sin brought condemnation upon everyone, but Christ’s one act of righteousness

Re: [TruthTalk] fyi~g

2004-04-21 Thread Wm. Taylor
I'm not sure what you're looking for, but one thing they all have in common is theministry of the Holy Sprit. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:06 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] fyi~g G,

RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Hughes Jonathan
Hi Terry, The 'many' when referring to Adam is definitely all. Therefore, the 'many' when referring to Christ must also be all. Otherwise we are playing with apples and oranges. I am sure you would disagree if I said that many (but not all, just some) became sinners through Adam. The

RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Hughes Jonathan
Committe of Baptists? Sigh. Please see below. It was done by far more than a Baptist Committe. The NLT Translation Committee The Tyndale House website assures the reader that "all of the Bible scholars and stylists involved in this work are evangelicals who accept the Bible as the inspired

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Wm. Taylor
Judy, I still don't get it. Whose words are these? "The Lord knows those who are his and let everyone who names the name of the Lord claim by faith in their doctrine that the atonement covers theiriniquity?" (see 2 Timothy 2:9). - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor

[TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
I know Jonathan, I have the translation but don't spend much time in it. Tyndale House published the Living Bible paraphrase and I'm assuming that this is a rewrite of that with the oversight ofthese learned ones. ROMANS/GALATIANS Gerald Borchert, The Southern Baptist Theological

[TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
I wrote the words as you well know Bill; to me they reflect what I hear you and those of the same persuasion saying when you speak of theall-inclusivity of the incarnation. Are you sure this doctrine will hold you "in that day?" judyt From: "Wm. Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Judy, I still don't

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Wm. Taylor
No wonder the first Adam gets more credit - this is where most professing Christians live and it is very evident on TT where DavidM was ridiculed and all but stoned for daring to speak ofSanctification which wasthen termed "Christian Perfection" in the subject line. Judy, just a point of

[TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
I do also Terry, You were on the ball to catch this and it makes me realize what a potential problem all of these different translations arebecoming. I have many of them but always return to the KJV. The NIV is bad enough with all of it's ommissions and now this. Makes me want to weep for

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Wm. Taylor
The doctrine doesn't have to hold me, Judy. The object of my faith is JesusChrist. He is the one who will hold us both in that day. After all, it is not faith which saves us, but he in whom we have faith. Bill - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: [EMAIL

[TruthTalk] Bible versions

2004-04-21 Thread Chris Barr
\o/ !HALALU Yah! \o/ Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua ! My preference is the exegeses Bible. It is the only one since KJV to use only the same manuscripts as KJV. The translator, transliterator and exegete was one Herb Jahn (recently deceased after 85 blessed years). He was

[TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
I don't have a problem with the term in and of itself because being perfect and being holy are one and the same. I believe I read the message where you were asking if it was an April Fools joke, that and some of the stuff that Elsmanlaw wrote ridiculing him about his belief in this

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Terry Clifton
I don'y care if we are talking about pears and cumquats. All are not right with God. Look around you. You will see. Terry Hughes Jonathan wrote: Hi Terry, The 'many' when referring to Adam is definitely all. Therefore, the 'many' when referring to Christ must also be all.

RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Hughes Jonathan
Meaning that your view of humanity is above the view of scripture? That when scripture says one thing and you say another, then you win? Is this what you don't care about? More likely you are saying that this passage does not jive with your experience; this of course is not a test of truth.

Re: [TruthTalk] Sources of Truth

2004-04-21 Thread Lance Muir
David: You've framed this as a have you stopped beating your wife question. My answer is yes. You've mischaracterized most of the rest of it. Perhaps someone with more patience than I (Bill, Jonathan) will take the time to explain. You don't, in the end, have to agree. In the beginning however,

[TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
He won't be holding us in that day unlesswe havebeen obedient and serving Him in all of the days preceding that one becauseHe is the bread of Life, we feed on Him and not the other way around. It's us who must hold to the head, In (Col 2:18,19) we are warned to "Let no man beguile you of

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Wm. Taylor
Judy, maybe you should shop off your right hand. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:02 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] Calvinism He won't be holding us in that day unlesswe havebeen obedient and

[TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
From: "Hughes Jonathan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meaning that your view of humanity is above the view of scripture? That when scripture says one thing and you say another, then you win? Is this what you don't care about? jt: Scripture does not say what you are claiming it says Jonathan, you are

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Kevin Deegan
The object is Jesus Christ. But it is He who gave His commands doctrine in the Holy Scriptures. Jesus is the Object The Scriptures are the instruction book!"Wm. Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The doctrine doesn't have to hold me, Judy. The object of my faith is JesusChrist. He is the one

Re: [TruthTalk] Violation of I Timothy 2

2004-04-21 Thread Kevin Deegan
Just got back from Arizona. We are headed to Washington DC This weekend Saturday preach to the Festival of Resistance! http://sept.globalizethis.org/ Sunday preach to this crowd: NOW, NARAL, Planned Parenthood, etc. http://www.million4roe.com/ With a couple of Major league ballgames thrown

Re: [TruthTalk]Who says the NIV is not reliable?

2004-04-21 Thread Kevin Deegan
2 Samuel 21:19: THE NIV "...Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod." THE AUTHORIZED KING JAMES VERSION "...Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of

RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Kevin Deegan
FYI The known texts fall in to one of two groups, the Majority or AlexandrianThe "Majority text" is a statistical construct of the plurality of extant Greek manuscripts. The Majority of which are of the Authorized version type text Hughes Jonathan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note that the New

[TruthTalk] Violation of I Timothy 2

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
Goodness, I had no idea all of this is going on; what do you do at The Festival of Resistance? Tell them only Jesus can give them justice and make them free? Sure would love to hear a report about what you are finding out there. Is resistance to the Word getting worse or holding? Thanks for

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Wm. Taylor
Hi Jonathan, Terry, and all, In the NT whenpolloi (many) is used in reference to the saving work of JesusChrist (see Mrk 10.45; 14.24; Rom 5.19; Heb 9.28), the Semitic inclusive sense is to be understood, i.e. Jesus died for all (cf. 1Tim 2.6; Heb 2.9). Indeed when Paul writes of the one

Re: [TruthTalk] Violation of I Timothy 2

2004-04-21 Thread Kevin Deegan
That is right ONLY Christ can make them FREE INDEED!!! JN 8:31-32 I can see a great deal of damage done in young people. The kids are really messed up and searching for answers. They crave answers and swamp our guys firing question after question at them, like a

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Terry Clifton
Jonathan: I was not placing my experience above scripture. I was saying that You are wrong, wrong, wrong! Many does not mean all. Many does not even mean a majority. Many does not mean most. My Bible says "Many". To think it means all is to say that Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy are right with

RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Jonathan Hughes
Hi Judy, Your reply makes me smile a bit, not in any mischievous way but just over a simple understanding. You say that I am holding to a Calvinistic interpretation/doctrine. In fact you say such things in most of your emails to Lance, Bill and I. What you fail to realize is that I am

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Kevin Deegan
OOH Now I understand. HN "The Many" It was so unclear till now. Poor ol Holy Spirit could not help but with the help of a cemetary education and cracking the whip on that ol flesh, now my eyes are open! "The many" What a good name for a band. Was it not you who likes U2? What is it, with

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Wm. Taylor
Peace, brother. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism OOH Now I understand. HN "The Many" It was so unclear till now. Poor ol Holy Spirit could

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Kevin Deegan
Why do you like such a Filthy mouth like Bono?"Wm. Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peace, brother. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism OOH Now I understand. HN "The Many" It

RE: [TruthTalk] Forgiveness/Repentance

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
Jonathan wrote: I hold the same position as Lance does here. Grace is always first. Hey, I hold to that position too. Grace is always first. Grace and forgiveness are not the same thing. Jonathan wrote: I would suggest that the forgiveness for all of our sins is included in what Christ

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Wm. Taylor
I don't think I've ever heard Bono say anything filthy. I listen to his songs and enjoy them immensely. Aren't you the eat-the-meat-and-spit-out-the-bones guy. Lighten up. - Original Message - From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 21,

RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Jonathan Hughes
Hi Terry, Assuming you are not calling me a blithering idiot here, please do some exegesis. In other words work out the logic of what Paul is saying. I hope you are not misunderstanding me in thinking that I am saying that all are now saved? I am only saying that all are included in

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Kevin Deegan
No that was Terry. Bono is such a wonderful example of christianity! "I'd like to give a message to the young people of America, and that is; we shall continue to abuse our position and #%#%#% up the mainstream."Bono '94 Grammy's At the 2003 Golden Globe Awards, the U2 frontman described the

RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Jonathan Hughes
Ack replying to my own post. Am I getting old? When I mention You are with your view below, agreeing with Calvin in one of the five major points of Calvinism. I should have said that you agree with Calvinism (that which Calvins followers developed), not with Calvin himself. Calvin did

[TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
From: "Jonathan Hughes" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Hi Judy, Your reply makes me smile a bit, not in any mischievous way but just over a simple understanding. You say that I am holding to a Calvinistic interpretation/doctrine. In fact you say such things in most of your emails to Lance, Bill and I.

[TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Judy Taylor
Hey no problem, I would prefer to discuss the Word of God aside from the input of any "great" theologian. Wouldn't it be something if we could trust the Holy Spirit to do what Jesus sent Him to do? judyt From: "Jonathan Hughes" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ack replying to my own post. Am I getting

RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Jonathan Hughes
Bill, Thank you for taking the time to explain the greek side of this. I appreciate it. There is so much we have to learn from you. Jonathan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wm. Taylor Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 6:06 PM To: [EMAIL

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Terry Clifton
No, I am not referring to you as a blithering idiot. That description is for those who think that Bill and Ted are saved. You no longer fit that description now that you have clarified what you mean. For a good while there, it looked like you figured everyone had free fire insurance, no matter

[TruthTalk] To flame or not to flame

2004-04-21 Thread Daniel Lee
Dear David, Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua!!! David, you said: You are welcome here as long as you do not flame other members. We do not allow attacking list members, such as pronouncing curses on them, nor do we allow deriding them in how they practice their faith. Daniel

RE: [TruthTalk] Sources of Truth

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
Lance wrote: David: You've framed this as a have you stopped beating your wife question. I did? I fail to see that, so I must have really misunderstood you. Lance wrote: My answer is yes. You've mischaracterized most of the rest of it. Sorry. Lance wrote: Perhaps someone with more

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Wm. Taylor
TTers, I thought I might submit this work for your consideration. It takes into view several of the topics of today's discussion: Predestination, Limited Atonement, The One and The Many. Please enjoy. Bill Taylor Re-Thinking Calvin's Horrible Decree (c)1998 W. Thomas Taylor John Calvin

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Dave
Hughes Jonathan wrote: Another verse you will want to consider is 1 Corinthians 15:22: (KJV) 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Here the King James Version uses the word 'all' and the concept of from death to life. Would we now say that inAdam

RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
Jonathan wrote: Hope you don't mind me answering your questions as well. Of course not. Welcome to the party! :-) Jonathan wrote: 1) I do not hold to Calvin's concept of Limit Atonement. I figured that out by now. :-) Jonathan wrote: 2) I do not believe in universalism, that all

RE: [TruthTalk] 'It is finished'

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
Chris wrote: The old song says, He paid a debt I could not pay. Actually, He did pay that debt, yet many will pay it again by their own death because they refuse His payment. Have you ever thought about the logic of this? If Jesus paid our debt, then our debt could not be forgiven

RE: [TruthTalk] Bible versions

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
Chris wrote: My preference is the exegeses Bible. I have one here, Chris, so I am ready to discuss with you. :-) Chris wrote: It is the only one since KJV to use only the same manuscripts as KJV. Actually, Green's literal translation also used the same manuscripts as the KJV. You are

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread Dave
Judy Taylor wrote: From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] Judy Taylor wrote: a) A covenant by nature requires the death of both parties. DAVEH: I'm lost on this one, Judy. Would you be so kind as to explain why you believe such, please? jt: I may not have expressed

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread LaurHamm
Thanks to everyone who has commented on the many and all translation. I find the posts interesting and informative. Laura

RE: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
Jonathan wrote: The passage makes no sense if 'many' is not 'all' which is why some translations use 'all' instead of 'many'. Please give us your exegesis on this passage on how the many when referring to Adam is all of us, and how the many when referring to Christ is just some of us.

RE: [TruthTalk] To flame or not to flame

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
Daniel wrote: Do you mean like the way Ruben non-Israel flamed and attacked me? I pointed out legitamate sin in Judy's life, Ruben the clown reviled me. Either way, you are a hypocrite. You allow Ruben to flame me and yet I am warned because I flamed Judy. You can't have it

RE: [TruthTalk] The Being and Nature of the Unborn Child

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
David Miller wrote to Judy: Bill and Lance sometimes are as if they are 'speaking in tongues' around you because you do not understand their words. Therefore, they should try and explain their words in a way that you can understand it. Sherrie wrote: Please help me if I've missed

RE: [TruthTalk] When do the unborn have a spirit and soul?

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
Bill wrote: The thing that I have to accept, though, in this realization -- or perhaps I should say, the thing I do not know how to explain any other way -- is that this is God doing something greater than physical science can explain. Would you agree with this? No, I'm not sure I would

Re: [TruthTalk] Calvinism

2004-04-21 Thread ttxpress
4/21, Judy: Actually progressive sanctification should be considered normal Christian living. why? G ~ P 235

RE: [TruthTalk] The Being and Nature of the Unborn Child

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
Lance wrote: It seems to me that a distinction needs to be drawn between duality dualism. Please draw the distinction for us. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to

RE: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
David Miller wrote: To my knowledge, I have never taken anything that you have said personally. You have never made a personal remark toward me that I can remember. John wrote: I am curious. You were very critical of me for slinging judgments and using ad hominem attacks. by

RE: [TruthTalk] The Being and Nature of the Unborn Child

2004-04-21 Thread David Miller
Judy wrote: Would you agree with me that the spiritual created the material ie: Jesus called the worlds into existence by the Word of His Power? Yes. Judy wrote: and would you also agree that as Jesus gave the analogy - when a person is born of the spirit the wind bloweth where it

RE: PCWorks: Re: Explorer window size

2004-04-21 Thread Hugh Vandervoort
Just read your novel-got lost in the middle and am replying to the part quoted below: That hidden file is probably Thumbs.db which, I believe, keeps track of the images for Thumbnail view. ** Finally, I still