In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sun, 8 May 2011 05:52:04 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
More like 6 minutes than 6 months - for nanopowder degradation from current
flow
This may be relevant. http://mpac.engr.ucdavis.edu/publications/FAS1.PDF
-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com
In reply to John Berry's message of Mon, 9 May 2011 12:13:28 +1200:
Hi,
[snip]
A Muller inspired Motor/Generator powering it's self suspended in air...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iNrjKFSLu4
Notice that there is a part of the front that you never get to see?
Regards,
Robin van Spaandonk
In other videos you get to see all of it.
Nothing can be done to disprove the possibility of fraud to someone
committed to being skeptical. (short of wide spread common use)
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 6:21 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
In reply to John Berry's message of Mon, 9 May 2011 12:13:28
Which PDF is it on EVGRAYTOO/files, please?
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 6:52 AM, John Berry aethe...@gmail.com wrote:
Details: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVGRAYTOO/files/ (join up to
access pdf)
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVGRAYTOO/files/
ROMEROUK.pdf
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Esa Ruoho esaru...@gmail.com wrote:
Which PDF is it on EVGRAYTOO/files, please?
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 6:52 AM, John Berry aethe...@gmail.com wrote:
Details: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVGRAYTOO/files/ (join up to
access pdf)
See:
http://www.rense.com/
Incidentally, anybody notice the fact that this famous photo has always
shown that one of the documents laying around on the table was redacted? (In
this deliberately cropped image, see lower right hand corner.)
Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
Mr. Trout,
With a one-line ungrammatical email from a pseudonym which just
advertises your site, with no further information, I'd actually tend to
conclude that your site sure is a scam site. Legitimate websites are
generally associated with legitimate people, and legitimate people don't
On 11-05-09 12:49 AM, Drowning Trout wrote:
What a waste of valuable domain names. Please don't confuse my
site e-cat dot us/ http://e-cat.us/ as a scam or phishing
site.
Looks like a harmless forum about the e-cat. Nobody but Trout has
posted so far.
The situation is as clear as mud. See:
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3173090.ece
- Jed
Ah -- another short message from another brand-new pseudonym, also
advertising the site.
Something smells. Vortex has attracted a spammer, it seems.
On 11-05-09 08:56 AM, vorl bek wrote:
On 11-05-09 12:49 AM, Drowning Trout wrote:
What a waste of valuable domain names. Please don't
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 4:06 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
The situation is as clear as mud. See:
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3173090.ece
- Jed
I like the formulation nanometric nickel particles No word of
catalysis-yet.
Peter
--
Dr. Peter
Here is a link from the NyTeknik article:
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=Ddate=20110113DB=EPODOClocale=en_EPCC=USNR=2011005506A1KC=A1
This is the U.S. application. My guess is that this is the whole thing. I
suppose that if it has been revised, the revised
In a quick count of metals employed in this patent, copper is mentioned
seven times and nickel six times.
The testing of active powder in Sweden has shown a natural isotope balance
of copper, and no radioactivity.
Given that nickel has the second most stable nucleus in the periodic table,
* I will add, in deference to WL theory and the ULM, that the stated
presence of boron does provide a more acceptable pathway for the high gain.
This would be due to the very high cross-section of boron for neutrons
(thermal neutrons). I do not know that boron retains the high cross-section
On Sun, 2011-05-08 at 16:16 -0400, Terry Blanton wrote:
I finally got a chance to listen to the podcast:
http://evworld.com/general.cfm?page=audiolist
The Future of Energy: Part 1
23-Apr-2011 -- Part one of two part dialogue with the chief scientist
at NASA's Langley research center on
This is a boron day for me . g not boring but boronic.
Every day provides new or previously overlooked details, and perhaps an
element of Rossi's good fortune will be that someone, probably not from U of
B, but from somewhere else is going to provide answers that could help him.
The role of
On a lighter note, Eric Kreig, whose name appears beside the word
'skeptic' in the dictionary, has posted the following on his
free_energy yahoo group:
[free_energy] Fwd: Free Energy On The RightSunday, May 8, 2011 3:42 PM
From: erickr...@verizon.net erickr...@verizon.net
To:
In matter of neutrons, Hideo Kozima has a lot of publications. His TNCF
(trapped neutron catalyzed fusion)
is described the best ib his book:
The Science of the Cold Fusion Phenomenon, Elsevier Ed.
2006
Peter
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
This is a
Ah -- another short message from another brand-new pseudonym,
also advertising the site.
Something smells. Vortex has attracted a spammer, it seems.
Don't go off the rails with paranoia. I have no connection to the
site, and was simply pointing out that it seems harmless.
On 11-05-09
I OCR'ed and uploaded the U.S. patent application. It might be a little
different. It is hard to compare. It is dated January 2011:
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RossiAmethodandaa.pdf
If this is what the Italian P.O. approved, it isn't very helpful.
- Jed
From: Peter Gluck
In matter of neutrons, Hideo Kozima has a lot of publications. His TNCF
(trapped neutron catalyzed fusion) is described the best in his book:
The Science of the Cold Fusion Phenomenon, Elsevier Ed. 2006
Peter
Found this scanned paper from ICCF7:
Jones,
I think you nailed it on the copper migration since it appears the copper
tube is buried in the powder but when they say said copper tube further
including at least a heating electrical resistance are they
Implying the internal resistor is INSIDE the copper pipe?
Fran
9. An
I ocr'ed and uploaded the 2010 Piantelli patent as well:
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/PiantelliSmethodforp.pdf
I do not know why these things are not ocr'ed at the WIPO website.
- Jed
OMG - Lazar and Jarod do their boron shtick ...
http://www.ufomind.com/area51/desert_rat/1995/dr24/#boron
To quote from this unassailable source of info: The vast majority of the
world's Boron comes from the United States, and most of that is extracted
from a big hole in the ground at--you
Thanks, if it is about priority, we have to take Hideo in consideration.
Peter
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
*From:* Peter Gluck **
* *
In matter of neutrons, Hideo Kozima has a lot of publications. His TNCF
(trapped neutron catalyzed fusion) is
In the case of boron-10 reacting with a virtual neutron, this would be
closer to fission than fusion, if we wanted to be precise - and also is
lower in energy than the reaction of boron with a real neutron (which is
over 1 MeV heavier than a proton). If the virtual neutron is a form of
spillover
How does the Rossi device drive the electromigration of copper?
Harry
From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 9:43:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
In a quick count of metals employed in this patent, copper is mentioned
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=8#comment-37766
Luis Vaccaro
May 9th, 2011 at 3:05 AM
Dear Mr Rossi,
Just some curiosities:
1) do you explain all about the secret catalyst in you patent?
2) if this is the case, the nature of the catalyst will be revealed after
the
Please unsubscribe me.
Phys. Rev. C 83, 054602 (2011) [10 pages]
Nucleus-nucleus cold fusion reactions analyzed with the l-dependent “fusion
by diffusion” model
http://prc.aps.org/abstract/PRC/v83/i5/e054602
http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/05/ipotesi-e-cat.html
At 10:45 AM 5/9/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/05/ipotesi-e-cat.html
Relax .. it's a HYPOTHESIS
At a time when half the world tries to replicate the reactor
Ni-H weaned by Focardi and Rossi, after a brilliant discussion on patents
receive from our great engineer
From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 1:23:07 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
From:Harry Veeder
How does the Rossi device drive the electromigration of copper?
Galvanic corrosion …. Well known between nickel and
-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder
How does the Rossi device drive the electromigration of copper?
Galvanic corrosion …. Well known between nickel and copper
HV: Doesn't that require some moisture between the copper and nickel?
Not necessarily 'moisture' so much as a solvent or
Hi,
On 9-5-2011 19:45, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/05/ipotesi-e-cat.html
Is the PEM in the ECAt_Versione_PEM.bmp picture a Proton Exchange
Membrane like the ones used in Fuel Cells?
Kind regards,
MoB
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Man on Bridges manonbrid...@aim.com wrote:
Is the PEM in the ECAt_Versione_PEM.bmp picture a Proton Exchange Membrane
like the ones used in Fuel Cells?
That is what the text speculates.
T
*The clump theory of plasmoid hydrogen ion emissions.*
The place where hydrogen ions are first gathered together could be on the
heater filament of the Rossi reactor and not inside the nickel powder.
A clump of negative hydrogen ions may form on the filament of the internal
heater inside the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneutronic_fusion
This wiki site has some info on ‘wishful’ and desirable, but well-known
fusion reactions, including the one which is (by far) the most interesting
to everyone who has looked into this - and the most studied:
p + 11B → 3 4He + 8.7 MeV
This
No membrane is present. Rossi said that he does not use precious metals in
his reactor.
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Man on Bridges manonbrid...@aim.com
wrote:
Is the PEM in the ECAt_Versione_PEM.bmp picture a
Hi,
On 9-5-2011 21:03, Axil Axil wrote:
No membrane is present. Rossi said that he does not use precious
metals in his reactor.
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com
mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Man on Bridges
High temperatures up to 1600C are present in the reaction vessel.
Any organic will fail at about 400C.
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Man on Bridges manonbrid...@aim.com wrote:
Hi,
On 9-5-2011 21:03, Axil Axil wrote:
No membrane is present. Rossi said that he does not use precious
The Rossi US patent application is quite a piece of work. He claims
both fusion and fission reactions occur in the cell:
[0069] In particular, said graphs clearly show that zinc is
formed, whereas zinc was not present in the nickel powder
originally loaded into the apparatus said zinc being
If the clump theory of plasmoid hydrogen ion emissions is correct, an
alternative way to form a long lived plasmoid based reaction is to construct
a reactor as follows.
Fill the stainless steel reaction vessel with lithium hydride. Cover the
walls of the Reaction chamber with nickel oxide.
Dear all,
I'm puzzled that Rossi has not answered me yet when I posted the message
below on his journal last week (
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=360).
If he cannot generate steam hotter than 110°C, then generating electricity
will not be efficient due to Carnot's Theorem. On the
Copper pipes don't like high pressure.
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Pierre Carbonnelle
pierre.carbonne...@gmail.com wrote:
Dear all,
I'm puzzled that Rossi has not answered me yet when I posted the message
below on his journal last week (
On Mon, 09 May 2011 12:04:30 -0700 Axil wrote
No membrane is present. Rossi said that he does not use precious metals in
his reactor.
Axil,
Nickel may not qualify as a good membrane but that may change when
nickel is in the form of nano powders. I am convinced that the process behind
Rossi claims they can produce temperatures as high as 500 to 550 C
From: Pierre Carbonnelle pierre.carbonne...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 1:01:42 PM
Subject: [Vo]:Can Rossi generate steam hotter than 110 °C ?
Dear all,
I'm
I am eager for that patent to be published! I want to learn what the catalyst
is!
From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 11:12:34 AM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:NyTeknik reports on Rossi patent
-Original Message-
That 550C temperature may only be occurring inside the reaction vessel.
The fast flow of water would cool the containing copper pipe to something
under 110C based on the pressure maintained in the cooling loop.
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 4:50 PM, noone noone thesteornpa...@yahoo.comwrote:
Perhaps at one time Rossi used a setup in which the nickel was in a copper
tube,
but now it is in a stainless steel reactor vessel. No electromigration can take
place.
From: francis froarty...@comcast.net
To: jone...@pacbell.net
Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent:
1) The reactor vessel is composed of stainless steel that does not contain
copper.
2) Copper appears in the nickel powder.
It's pretty obvious that nickel is transmuting to copper.
From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon,
Let me add my two cents:
If Rossi's e-Cat reactor core can regularly sustain temperatures of
500c or higher, water that is in contact with the reactor core's
surface FOR LONG ENOUGH PERIODS will most certainly exceed
temperatures 100.1 C, and by quite a large margin.
However, the tick would be
From: noone noone
1) The reactor vessel is composed of stainless steel that does not contain
copper.
Not according to the patent.
2) Copper appears in the nickel powder.
Yes, and it gets there by a scientifically valid process.
It's pretty obvious that nickel is
A pressurized water reactor or similar is needed for electricity production.
The reaction would proceed a lot faster at the higher temps and would need
better controls compared to just the water heater setup now running at
around 100C. Hot water production for factories and large building heating
These are important points, and I agree with everything here, except -- as I
said -- the last line:
By the time anyone gets to making
electricity or home heating units, it will be so deep in NRC regulation
that
it may take decades to see the light of day.
Oh come now. Every company in every
Then I guess this is a perfect example of how quickly you jump to rash
conclusions based on little or no evidence. Legitimate people do use
usernames and as a matter of fact so do you WestTexasLawrence, I thought
you said you sure wouldn't visit my site? Let alone register an account.
I merely
--- On Mon, 5/9/11, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
He then claims that 58 g of Ni provides the equivalent
energy of
30,000 tons of oil with the strangest calculation that
begins with 10
MeV of energy per reaction. This is converted to mass
equivalent,
multiplied by Avogadro's
WOW! Am I reading this patent right? Rossi’s patent seems to bet everything on
Ni62 to cu as THE important reaction.
Fron Rossi patent US 2011/0005506 Al
The positron forms the electron antiparticle, and
hence, as positrons impact against the nickel electrons, the
electron-positron pairs are
Rossi has clearly lost that bet.
There is NO SUCH THING as stable copper-62 !!
This patent is a joke. Either there is another “real patent” or he is without
IP protection
Jones
From: Roarty, Francis X [mailto:francis.x.roa...@lmco.com]
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 4:11 PM
To:
Regarding the Feb. 10 test, I pooh-poohed the notion that the cell was
actually producing 4 kW, raising the water temperature 1 deg C, and the
other 3 dec C came from some path other than the water, for example by
conduction through the body of the machine to the outlet thermocouple.
To be sure,
Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote:
WOW! Am I reading this patent right? Rossi’s patent seems to bet everything
on Ni62 to cu as THE important reaction.
I believe he can be totally wrong about his theory of operation and yet
still get a patent if it can be shown that this was
So Rossi let us go ahead and think the cu was outside the SS reactor while it
was actually the sealed inner reactor filled with Ni powder and a resistive
heater. Water flows around the copper reactor inside a SS jacket. The SS is a
jacket not a reactor! See patent drawing Jed just uploaded :
here is where the nickel powder coat is discribed:
*[0056] *Nickel is coated in a copper tube 100, including a heating electric
resistance *101, *adjusted and controlled by a controlling thermostat (not
shown) adapted to switch off said resistance *101 *as nickel is activated by
hydrogen
Two messages are coming through loud and clear wrt the big picture.
First - Rossi is getting horrendous legal advice, and the beneficiary of
that is the rest of us. This is no doubt the worst patent application in
memory and it follows a very good one that Rossi got when LTI paid the bill
Could a copper reactor tube even be able to handle the heat (1100F?) and
pressure (25 bar?) of H2?
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
Two messages are coming through loud and clear wrt the “big picture”…
First - Rossi is getting horrendous legal advice,
Hi,
On 10-5-2011 1:42, Roarty, Francis X wrote:
So Rossi let us go ahead and think the cu was outside the SS reactor
while it was actually the sealed inner reactor filled with Ni powder
and a resistive heater. Water flows around the copper reactor inside a
SS jacket. The SS is a jacket not
Adding in pre-application time with licensing certification period for the NRC
review of a new reactor certification is 7-20+ years ...
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/02/nrc-has-four-certified-nuclear-reactor.html
Heck, it will take a first decade to get the science down and the NRC to even
I don't think this idea could have been overlooked but just for the sake of
being thorough ... Is it possible the secret ingredient is the cooling loop?
My point being the cases of life after death could be attributed to absorbed
hydrogen leaching out, What if this process is self choking
On 2011-05-10 01:42, Roarty, Francis X wrote:
So Rossi let us go ahead and think the cu was outside the SS reactor
while it was actually the sealed inner reactor filled with Ni powder and
a resistive heater. Water flows around the copper reactor inside a SS
jacket. The SS is a jacket not a
Thanks Akira,
I was going back and forth between the patent and the drawing - Nice
job.
Best Regards
Fran
-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa [mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 8:30 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cu pipe is
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
Hot water and winter heating consume vast amounts of coal, the dirtiest
fuel - so even if this baby does not work on a steam cycle . . .
Previous results with Ni-H and Pd - gas loading D show that high
temperatures can be reached. That will not be a
The H2 gas is stored under pressure. This means the H2 tank contains a
significant amount of mechanical energy separate from the energy of
combustion. However, this contributes negligible amounts of power given that
only a gram to a few grams of gas were used during the tests.
Harry
MoB,
I also though the reactor was stainless Steele until I saw the
new patents from Italy and US.
Regards
Fran
From: Man on Bridges [mailto:manonbrid...@aim.com]
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 8:22 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:cu pipe is sealed inner
Hi,
On 10-5-2011 2:30, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
On 2011-05-10 01:42, Roarty, Francis X wrote:
So Rossi let us go ahead and think the cu was outside the SS reactor
while it was actually the sealed inner reactor filled with Ni powder and
a resistive heater. Water flows around the copper reactor
The large amount of iron(10%) found in Rossi ash is proof that the nickel
powder is in contract with stainless steel.
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 8:56 PM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com
wrote:
MoB,
I also though the reactor was stainless Steele until I saw
the new
Here is a (loud) video of a heat conversion scheme for low temperature
input, which clearly the E-Cat can handle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atu00VDDXAI
Message: In the future of off-grid high-tech, the steam cycle is probably
archaic anyway (for small devices)... You can get decent
Fran,
The new US patent is really an old patent.
The contents of the Italian patent that was just granted have not been seen by
anyone.
Harry
From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 8:56:21 PM
Subject: RE:
Years ago a lot of money was put into OTEC generation, which has very small
temperature differences. Those techniques could be revived.
However, as I said, based on previous Ni-H experiments there is no reason to
think high temperatures will be a problem.
- Jed
V,
Double checked my math after thinking about it. Unless I am missing something,
that is the way it is.
No one has anything to say on this?
You can't even get this kind of energy by fusing up the chain all the way from
hydrogen to nickel-56 as happens in massive stars, as far as I know,
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Akira Shirakawa
shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote:
What is 6 ?
I think that is Ni plating on the reactor surface.
T
'Tony' posted this analysis on April 22 on Rossi's blog
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473cpage=5#comments
I think somewhere there is a follow up post but I can't find it right now.
Harry
- Original Message
From: Kyle Mcallister kyle_mcallis...@yahoo.com
To:
I think the NRC can try, but it will not last long.
I am a bit more concerned about the powers that be trying to tax the energy
produced to high heaven.
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, May 9, 2011 4:03:38 PM
Hi,
Reading Rossi's patent it seems Boron Lead are used not just for shielding
but to absorb the energy from the radiation. What I was wondering if there
is any specific radiation that would need lead vs a cheaper metal (and
thicker) or even concrete to absorb the energy.
So is lead essential?
Rossi claims that he can produce steam up to 550C by connecting units together.
There is no reason to think he cannot produce hot enough steam to produce
electricity. Also, regardless as to the quality of this patent, what really
matters is the patent that covers the catalyst. Anyone could buy
In order to get the temperature of the steam up to 550C, a very expensive
high pressure steam loop is required. Such loops are found in nuclear and
coal plants. The reaction vessels must also be reinforced to handle the high
steam pressure.
A ambient pressure liquid metal coolant (lithium
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 4:43 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote:
Let me add my two cents:
Sorry, it's not worth even that.
(I've stayed away from this list because its terms of reference clearly
exclude people of my mindset, but this discussion of higher
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