I am attaching an Excel simulation which uses the power measured via the
secondary water path of the heat exchanger to estimate the primary vapor flow.
With this information it is possible to estimate the water mass in grams
remaining within the ECAT as it responds to water pump input flow
From: Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com
If the law of inertia is universally true, some sort of centripetal
force is required to keep the disc revolving in a circle as it moves
above the magnets. I can vaguely grasp how the phenomena of locking
preserves the tilt of the disc, but how does
From: Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com
Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 11:08 am
Thanks for the work David, a few questions:
-It appears you are assuming the accuracy of the data from the secondary
thermocouple (excepting a simple 0.8°C offset) and that there was no water in
the reactor
Rossi has stated that the energy released by the LENR reaction is in the form
of moderate energy gamma rays(X-Rays?) These rays are converted into heat
within the lead shielding and coolant. If this is true, heat to activate the
core could be made to exit into the coolant to slow down the
I assume you are kidding Daniel. It might be possible for a very
sophisticated scammer to pull something like this off, but I do not consider
it likely in this case. I have seen a picture of the ECAT opened with someone
using a wrench on the interior heat sink attached box while it was
if this were done in a Vacuum then there would be zero air friction
naturally, the superconductor would be easier to keep cold and it could just go
on and on and on and on and on.
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 10:18 AM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 1:15 AM, David
: Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net
Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 4:25 pm
n Oct 18, 2011, at 10:36 AM, David Roberson wrote:
Rossi has stated that the energy released by the LENR reaction is
in the form of moderate energy gamma rays(X-Rays?) These rays are
converted into heat within
I asked Mr. Rossi whether or not he has tested several ECATS together in a
moderate sized configuration to determine how well they function as a team. He
responded yes to my query. He further stated that he plans to activate them in
groups of 6 as he powers up the entire system. Also, there
Hello Frank,
You have an impressive understanding of the flux pinning theory. Can you give
me an answer to my question? It appears that energy can be put into the
floating disk-magnet combination by pushing or pulling against the disk. Where
does the energy show up in the system? Does the
19, 2011 4:31 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:quantum levitation
On Oct 18, 2011, at 9:55 PM, David Roberson wrote:
Hello Frank,
You have an impressive understanding of the flux pinning theory. Can you give
me an answer to my question? It appears that energy can be put into the
floating disk
Hello Steven,
I have seen evidence of a check valve at the output of the ECAT tested in
October. This would be expected if many units are to make a contribution to
the final steam output port. Indications are that it opens cleanly when the
pressure within the ECAT is around 2 bars. I am
The power requirements for a large truck are enormous. Maybe Rossi's 1
Megawatt steam generator is not as powerful as we are thinking as it would
barely be capable of powering one of those trucks at full capacity(316 KW x 3).
I see that the latest 1 Megawatt BIG CAT will need a slight size
I think this can be broken down into two components. A transient plus a DC
current would define the process. The DC part would be steady for the length
of time that you make the observation. The transient current takes care of
the changing part. By your definition of DC, there is no
You are having a lot of fun William. I am assuming that some of the flux from
your permanent magnet is passing through the toroid. Any change in the coupled
flux will generate a voltage around the S-C loop. This voltage of course
would cause a current to flow through the zero ohm nature
I have been trying to understand the unusual behavior of the ECAT water input
pump. It appears that the same pump was used in both of the recent
demonstrations. Mats Lewan made excellent notes during his September test that
accurately measured the pump output at several points in time. The
@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2011 10:14 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Making Sense of ECAT Water Pump Flow Rate
David Roberson wrote:
An additional measurement of water consumed from the boiling point to the test
completion showed a usage of 11.08 kilograms per hour (3.0 grams per
second). None
. The truth is out there!
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2011 10:57 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Making Sense of ECAT Water Pump Flow Rate
David Roberson wrote:
Further support for a lower net flow rate during
The ECAT measurements conducted on October 6, 2011 have several discrepancies
that have made it extremely difficult for us to understand. I would like to
offer the following possible mechanism for consideration to the group of
experts assembled on the edge of the vortex.
As I think about
This is what I call an engine! Now, how can I get it into my hot rod?
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Fri, Oct 21, 2011 3:46 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Steam engines
On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Terry Blanton
Jed,
I should have used more careful wording in my post and the title is misleading.
I am thoroughly convinced that a lot of excess energy is produced by the ECAT
device. I made a poorly worded attempt to explain the large immediate peak in
calculated output power when the device is
in reactor output. Do you
believe a more exotic explanation is necessary?
Bob Higgins
On 10/21/2011, David Roberson wrote:
Another thorn is our paws has been the unusual behavior when the total power
has been shut down and water flow maximized at the end of the test run. Look
Why should it be assumed that improper equipment been used in these tests? The
meter used with the thermocouples is listed in Mats Lewan's report:
* Temperature logger Testo 177-T3 0554 1765 Usb Interface
The specification I read listed the temperature range as -40 to +120 C. Does
that
This is excellent news. I look forward to seeing the report. I hope that many
of the questions that still remain unanswered will be settled this time. How I
wish that the output water stream from the heat exchanger primary of the
October 6 test had been accurately measured. Figuring out
triggered – I.E. when the
flow rate was changed, Mats recorded a temperature reading.
Cheers, Bob
From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 2:23 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Possible mechanism-Excess Power Reading of ECAT
Hi
I have been conducting a review of a graph of the ECAT internal temperature
(T2) versus time. This graph reveals some important facts concerning the
operation of the ECAT which can be uncovered with a bit of effort. I am
including several of the discoveries that I have uncovered for the
I am now in agreement with your assumption that the water input flow rate is
quite a bit greater than I was assuming. I based my previous estimated rate
on the October report of Lewan and now think it is incorrect. Several issues
still do not make sense at the moment. How were they able to
At the time this measurement was performed, the water had not been boiling and
air is occupying the space above it. This would cause a high humidity, but I
am not sure that much condensation would occur. Do you still think that the
condensation would be adequate to keep the probe reading
That might very well be the way big oil and other giant energy companies keep a
major portion of the energy market once the energy catalyzer type products
start damaging them. On the flip side, the push for climate change solutions
may force the issue in the other direction. It depends upon
Maybe you have an error with your simulation since the number does not seem to
match the real world results. What kind of flow did you assume in the primary?
I think that vapor condensation is where the most action is since that takes
so much more energy than cooling the hot condensed
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Oct 26, 2011 7:06 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Manifold mispositioning makes measurements meaningless
At 03:55 PM 10/26/2011, David Roberson wrote:
Maybe you have an error with your simulation since the number does not seem to
match
I was referring to the fact that the steam is condensing and not just loosing
heat slowly along the entire distance. We know that the stream consists of
entirely water some where near the end of the primary exchanger output port.
The pipes from that point forth are in the form of a plumbing
I predict that the test will perform as expected. The power output will be 6 +
times the power input and we will all celebrate. The product will need to be
cleaned up in order to be produced properly. The system being tested is still
a prototype and Mr. Rossi is constantly improving the
Hello Horace,
I have generated an additional review which I plan to publish soon. The new
analysis I have completed shows absolute proof of LENR by my thinking. I found
a way to read the data that is very interesting.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Horace Heffner
this
contention.
(1) This value is calculated by using the values measured at 15:42 within Mats
Lewan report.
David Roberson
The ECAT is not dry during this time, in fact it is filled with water. A small
region of vapor probably exists above the water.
I do not agree that T2 can change without energy being absorbed by the water.
All indications are that the water is in good contact with the probe.
Of course the
, raising boiling temperature, and decreasing the amount of
roduced vapor (without an increase in core power required).
t was the premise that I'd been using to explain the T2 increase.
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
The ECAT is not dry during this time, in fact it is filled with water
:32 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:ECAT Measurements Confirm Excess Heat Production
David, how can you exclude the possibility of hidden chemical resources?
2011/10/27 David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com
The ECAT is not dry during this time, in fact it is filled with water. A small
region of vapor
There may be a good reason for a limitation of 6 hours for self-sustaining
mode. It would be far better if the reaction slowly damped out with time than
for someone to have to vent the hydrogen or add much additional input water to
achieve that result. You would thus be able to turn off the
-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Fri, Oct 28, 2011 1:26 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi: self-sustaining limit is around six hours
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I am hoping that the test today will be well documented
Everyone has the right to be wrong. It will be interesting to hear from these
guys when the dust settles from the test.
The supporters of Rossi likewise need to admit their error if by chance his
ECAT monster system is a scam.
I am hopeful that a small passage of time will reveal the truth.
You have made an excellent point. I noticed that the self sustaining power was
quite a bit below the driven power and this may demonstrate that phenomenon.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Fri, Oct 28, 2011 2:45 pm
Wait until the final results are posted and then we will know the score. I
recall that there were to be two of the 500 kwatt units to make up a complete
system. This test may just evolve one.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l
Incredible! We stand witness to the beginning of a new era. Three cheers to
Mr. Rossi!
I have looked forward to this day for a very long time. The world has changed.
Dave
Can we make the assumption that since the temperature is well above 100 C
inside the output piping heading toward the condensers that the steam must be
of very high quality? It seems to me that the condensers are capable of
totally condensing the vapor so that the pressure within this pipe
I drank mine last evening. I would be willing to share another round with you
and the others in the celebratory mood. Cheers!
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Ecat Builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sat, Oct 29, 2011 6:39 am
Subject: [Vo]:NyTeknik
It is prudent to have the generator running for safety reasons as well as to
supply the control system regulating the ECATs. I would find it strange if
they deactivated the generator. Also, the net fuel used during the test is a
direct indication of the amount of energy from that source.
I recall an old phrase attributed to Sherlock Holmes along the lines of “Once
all of the probable answers have been proven wrong, then it must be the
improbable”. Someone among the vortex will correct my phrase and that is a
good thing. My wording is incorrect, but that is not the important
Thanks Robin,
I took a look at that link and see that such a battery does in fact exist. I
may have used a term that is not common in the industry when I referred to beta
+ decay as just beta decay, but I think most people understood what I intended.
My reference was the Wikipedia article
I am also surprised by the actions taken by them. One would think that Krivit
would want to encourage Mr. Rossi in his endeavors. It must all be related to
Krivit's June trip and the things that transpired between Rossi and he.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Ecat Builder
by incontrovertible evidence. I don’t know
what that evidence will be – will there still be stigma when everyone has an
E-cat heating their home?
Bob Higgins
David Roberson wrote:
I recall an old phrase attributed to Sherlock Holmes along the lines of “Once
all of the probable answers have
Thanks, I knew I could count on the vortex!
-Original Message-
From: Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, Oct 30, 2011 10:54 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]: Is the ECAT out of the bag?
David Roberson wrote:
I recall an old phrase attributed
The latest system test where 107 individual ECAT modules were connected
together was successful but could have been much more convincing. System
instabilities forced the power output to be reduced to 470 kW and for it to be
run in an open loop mode instead of the 1 MW that we were all
, 10/31/11, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
From: David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com
Subject: [Vo]: Large ECAT System Test Convincing But Not Pretty
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Date: Monday, October 31, 2011, 7:01 PM
The latest system test where 107 individual ECAT modules were connected
Welcome to the vortex Danny. I personally enjoy the technical discussions
which come up occasionally. My latest post was an attempt to encourage other
members to discuss the finer aspects to ECAT control.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Danny Ross Lunsford antimatte...@yahoo.com
To:
Good post Danny. ;-)
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Danny Ross Lunsford antimatte...@yahoo.com
To: vortex list vortex-L@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2011 4:25 am
Subject: [Vo]:Faith!
My strongest reason for believing that Rossi is on the up and up - plain old
faith.
1) QCD, the
I have been monitoring this argument for quite a while. It is getting humorous.
Peter, can you name one scientific experiment that has been conducted where
there is absolutely no possible way to scam the results?
The level of scrutiny that you seem to subject the ECAT to is incredible.
I
The blanket statement that those who did look into the 1 MW system and accept
Krivit's version is far to encompassing. How can I determine that all of the
scientists made that conclusion?
Krivit seems to have a blinded version of events where he can see nothing good
in Mr. Rossi. There is
Does anyone understand what happens to one of these fractional Rydberg hydrogen
atoms once it is released into the atmosphere? Does it gain energy from the
air and become standard hydrogen? I am just curious?
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Roarty, Francis X
That is the question that I would like to have answered. Would the hydrino be
able to acquire the needed energy from the thermal energy available of the
atmosphere? If not, why have not all of the hydrogen atoms in existence (on
earth) been catalyzed during the eons of time that has been
I would have to say that I agree that it must be possible since the system is
working. When all the questions have been answered, it will become clear that
the ECAT is real. Let's proceed to make it a viable design.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: peter.heckert
Thank you for the response. The hydrino cycle that I am describing, aka heat
pump of some unusual type, would allow energy contained within the thermal
surroundings to do work. I can imagine some of that work being used to
generate radiant energy that could then escape the system. This
turn out to be
incorrect. The logic applied supports my conclusions.
David Roberson
is the Model-T version. I agree with that
statement.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 2, 2011 6:50 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]: ECAT Gold Mine-Data Review from October 6 Test
Am 02.11.2011 23:16, schrieb David
That would have been an excellent idea Peter with one exception. If the fire
and police had arrived to stop the display, then there might not have been
enough time to prove that the self sustaining mode had a large enough COP. It
is hard to win in that situation.
Cheers,
Dave
I think I know the reason why there is always a question in such a
demonstration. No one has ever performed an experiment that has completely
eliminated any optional explanation for the results obtained. Those who accept
the limited proof are convinced that the experiment was successful,
Now Peter, you need to calm down there. Maybe the piano is not such a bad idea
for relaxation.
Rossi has his plans and we have our desires so who do you think will get there
way? He has done a lot more than most companies that keep trade secrets
hidden until the actual moment of sales. We
diameter October 28 - new considerations
Am 03.11.2011 20:07, schrieb David Roberson:
Can you show proof that it is a scam?
No. Rossi knows how much scammers are out there and are competing. He often
complains about all these snakes that are paid by hostile and fraudulent
competition.
If he
I am afraid we need an engineer instead of scientist. Engineers get the task
completed in a manner that is acceptable for production, at least eventually.
Why not back a proven device? The others are no even in view for us to analyze.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Peter Heckert
it will be
accepted.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, Nov 3, 2011 4:08 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Pipe diameter October 28 - new considerations
Am 03.11.2011 20:51, schrieb David Roberson:
I am afraid we need
03.11.2011 21:14, schrieb David Roberson:
Having the patent granted may not be such an important goal for him at this
time. The longer he waits, the further into the future it extends. This
reminds me of the submarine patents that come up far into the future when the
most money is made
for gamma and I think suppression side
steps this issue. Suppression reduces energy density instead of increasing it
and instead of equivalent acceleration it affords equivalent de-acceleration.
Regards
Fran
From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 4
Peter,
Maybe you inability to post on Krivit's forum is a message for you to heed. I
have posted on that one before (forgive me for I have sinned), and sometimes
weeks go by before it is open for new posts. One day you will realize that you
are mistaken about Rossi and will come home to
You have got to be kidding-
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sat, Nov 5, 2011 10:46 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Some thoughts about Rossi's personality
On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 6:39 AM, Peter Heckert
Dear Peter,
Rossi did not specify whether the 20 mm was absolute or above atmospheric. It
is obvious that it is above atmospheric. This pressure is required to force
the water through the dissipaters and into the open bin.
And yes, the pumps do indirectly force the water back to the bin.
That is excellent news Jed. Supporting evidence is beginning to come forward
now that Rossi has began to convince the world that this Cold Fusion stuff
might be possible after all. I wonder how long these new revelations would
have remained hidden from view had Rossi not cracked open the
will be long remembered in the history of our civilization and if fairness
prevails he will be awarded the Nobel Prize.
David Roberson
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Some thoughts about Rossi's personality
Am 05.11.2011 16:23, schrieb David Roberson:
Dear Peter,
Rossi did not specify whether the 20 mm was absolute or above atmospheric.
Of course yes. At 20mm absolute pressure the water would evaporate by ambient
heat ;-)
It is obvious
I agree he does act strange. That seems to be his personality. We all have
our quirks.
I would love for him to do as you suggest, but he does not do things to suit
either you or I.
There are holes to pick in every experiment ever conducted as far as I know.
We need to have a reasonable
I would like to have access to the known facts associated with the latest test
of the 1 MW ECAT system. Is it possible for us as a group to keep a list of
what we know must be true about the test and other facts that influence the
measured performance? I am including a beginning list that
I continue to be amazed at the timidity of the main press. They must have been
burned so badly during the P F saga that the flames have not all died down.
But I am afraid that another burden is placed upon the press that is difficult
to remove. The mainline physics community has not come
Yes Peter, I agree that a pump in the output path would completely change the
situation. Your response is the type that we need. It is my understanding
that everyone who witnessed the test believed that there was no pump in that
position. Do you think otherwise? I would like to know as
I think Jed's response is entirely appropriate. Also, I hope that Rossi would
keep a lot of the funds generated by his early sales to reinvest in the
production and engineering of better products.
There will be plenty of time remaining for him to give to charity. Seems like
I recall Bill
This exercise has me confused. Are you making an attempt to demonstrate that
it is possible to make a scam ECAT? That would of course be instructive since
Rossi has never run an ECAT for an extended period of time as a single unit. I
suspect that we should consider that he is telling the
There seems to be a lot of question about the actual heat released by Rossi's 1
MW system. Can we assume that it releases at least the minimum power
calculated at approximately 60 kilowatts? Even this relatively small amount of
heat would be quite noticeable by the standards that are being
It always works out the way you desire when you cherry pick the data. Throw
away data that does not match your needs, keep all that does. This is the
common way that some science operates.
If you want to be truly honest in your effort, you must explain all of the
experimental evidence.
I agree with Berke. Rossi is have a good laugh at our expense. If the public
report is falsified, then it is a scam, pure and simple. Otherwise, it is real
as many expect.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
I will be surprised if you are not able to simulate the 1 core self sustaining
ECAT with a good selection of material. The single core would just behave as a
high capacity energy storage unit since the heat generated within tails off
with time in that mode. Three core simulation in the
Poor Jed, you are destined to be labeled as a Rossi supporter because you see
through the mist into the forest. You try to take an objective look at his
ECAT and this is your reward. You will be proven correct.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
To:
, Nov 7, 2011 10:08 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Minor progress
On Nov 7, 2011, at 3:15 PM, David Roberson wrote:
This exercise has me confused. Are you making an attempt to demonstrate that
it is possible to make a scam ECAT? That would of course be instructive since
Rossi has never run an ECAT
Post any finding you have on the vortex for all of us to see. ;-)
Dave
-Original Message-
From: kulintsov kulint...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, Nov 7, 2011 11:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Some thoughts about preparation of nickel powder
I've already done most of
calorimetry. There is ample reason to pick
t over carefully.
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I agree with Berke. Rossi is have a good laugh at our expense. If the public
eport is falsified, then it is a scam, pure and simple. Otherwise, it is real
s many expect.
Dave
-Original
The vortex group can really put on the heat on occasions. I salute you for
planning to actually do a test, but you must realize that Focardi heat treated
his nickel in some manner before it worked if I recall. Do not be too surprised
if you are not successful at first as that has always been
Jed, I have reason to believe that the output thermocouples are reading
incorrectly. Rossi has stated on several occasions that he has only one core
working within the ECAT used for the October 6 test. One core can only
generate approximately 3.4 kW of power since three are needed to
not be confused by assuming that one core is capable of
generating 10 kW. This is more of Rossi's game as usual.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Nov 8, 2011 2:04 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Minor progress
David Roberson
I wonder if the vortex would consider the following scenario:
It has been reported that the ECATs were completely filled with water before
the power was applied to the control systems and associated heating elements so
I would expect the following to take place.
1). Water starts to
It helps to put the discovery and development of new technologies into the
proper perspective. Thank you for posting the link below as I found it quite
informative. Complex systems always progress in starts and stops as the
underlying problems are resolved with hard work and a great deal of
AG, I think that Horace is giving it a good effort to come up with a scheme to
prove it is possible to simulate Rossi's results. That is OK as Rossi has done
everything within his ability to confuse the data and leave himself open to
serious doubt. I suspect that it is not a coincidence
From: Jeff Sutton jsutton.sudb...@gmail.com
Hello. I have been following Rossi and the posts since the beginning and am
very fascinated.
Rather than a fraud, I believe Rossi is on to something incrementally better
than those that came before. He has more success starting the reaction,
...@pobox.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 9, 2011 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Minor progress
On 11-11-09 11:37 AM, David Roberson wrote:
AG, I think that Horace is giving it a good effort to come up with a
scheme to prove it is possible to simulate Rossi's results. That is
OK
The three cores are now in a rectangular shape instead of cylindrical.
I would suggest that there is a thermal resistance(insulator of some sort)
desired between the cores and the heat sink. This would act as a thermal
matching system so that the cores can operate at nearly 600 C while the
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