Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[ROGER ANDERTON]

> Over 90% of folks who believe in UFOs also subscribe to conspiracy theories. 
> They need to to explain the 100% lack of any UFO evidence.
because there is supposed to be secret agencies that hide it.
Another method used by the establishment is to ignore the evidence.
Based on Tesla technology there is alien signals being picked up by SETI but 
"they" ignore them.
My talk:
SETI ignoring ETI signals Roger Anderton 1st June 2017

  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
||  
SETI ignoring ETI signals Roger Anderton 1st June 2017
 Tesla and ETI Music talk by Roger Anderton 1st June 2017 Alien signals based 
on old physics pre-Einstein being i...  |   |

  |

  |

 
my next talk will be that Einstein has been mistranslated and hence 
misunderstood
therefore modern physics based on a mountain of big mistakes








On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 5:24 PM, Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> So now we rely on conspiracy theories when the technology cannot be made to 
> work.
>
>
> Occam's Razor would suggest an inability of the  inventor, not his government 
> agents acting ill.
>
>
> Over 90% of folks who believe in UFOs also subscribe to conspiracy theories. 
> They need to to explain the 100% lack of any UFO evidence.
>
>
> My guess is that Rossi supporters are also UFO buffs.
>
>
>
> 
> From: bobcook39...@hotmail.com <bobcook39...@hotmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 3:25 PM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>  
>
> MORE INFORMATION:
>
>  
>
> http://worldnpa.org/abstracts/abstracts_paperlink_6835.pdf
>
> The Revolutionary Plasma Power Technology of Josef Papp
> worldnpa.org
> The Revolutionary Plasma Power Technology of Josef Papp Barry Springer NPA 
> Web Seminar November 24, 2012 Updated April 7, 2013
>
>
>  
>
> It seems the FBI raided the Company developing the Papp engine in 2013 and 
> the Government took the technology in to the dark IMHO.
>
>  
>
> TOO BAD.
>
>  
>
> I wonder if the company has been charged with a crime? Or merely given an 
> order curtailing their ability to communicate—i.e., speak.  They (the real 
> people affected) should check with the ACLU.
>
>  
>
> The reported raid sounds typical of a shady attempt to curtail R 
>
>  
>
> Bob Cook
>
>  
>
>
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>
>  
>
> The following may help understanding:
>
>  
>
> http://www.integrityresearchinstitute.org/PappEngine-Valone.pdf
>
>  
>
> Bob Cook
>
> From: Axil Axil
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:05 PM
> To: vortex-l
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>
>  
>
> ·        One of the big mysteries of the Papp engine is understanding the 
> Papp engine fuel preparation device. What does that device do and why is it 
> important to the function of the Papp engine? All the Papp engine replicators 
> have discounted the need to use this fuel prep device and try to get the Papp 
> engine to work without prepared fuel. Papp knew that prepared fuel was 
> critically important to getting the engine to work. Three months before his 
> death in 1989, Papp destroyed all the fuel he had prepared so that no one 
> could ever get his engine to work ever again. The engine laid useless inside 
> his workshop. That engine was his alone forever and could never be shared 
> with the world.
>
>  
>
> The cavitation theory of the Papp engine provides the reason why fuel 
> preparation is essential. A intense shock wave is required to form the ultra 
> dense crystal nature of the fuel in the alternate paired cylinder. Without 
> that shockwave, active fuel cannot be formed. The fuel preparation device 
> produced ultra dense water and latter in the fuel to act as a bootstrap or 
> initial plasma shock wave so that cavitation could occur in the paired 
> cylinder. Without that first shock wave, recurring fuel formation does not 
> begin in the alternate cylinder when the compression of the water vapor/gas 
> is underway.
>
>  
>
> Papp used this prepared fuel to disintegrate a 5/8 inch stainless steel pipe 
> when he demoed his Papp common in the desert.
>
>  
>
> o    Edit
>
> o    
>
> o    
>
> ·         
>
>  
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based 
> device. 
>
>  
>
> In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water 
> crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of 
> the cylinder was decreasing. During this incr

Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Che]

So.. 'Building 7' is for 'conspiracy nuts' for instance, huh?
You KNOW what it means, when you look at those videos of Building 7...


No wonder I have no respect for the 'middle-of-the-road' (i.e. cowardly,
self-interested) middle-class. Phil Ochs had a song about youse people.
And no wonder it's so easy for the scientific Establishment to not only
pooh-pooh, but to *persecute* Cold Fusion researchers.






On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 5:24 PM, Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> So now we rely on conspiracy theories when the technology cannot be made
to work.
>
>
> Occam's Razor would suggest an inability of the  inventor, not his
government agents acting ill.
>
>
> Over 90% of folks who believe in UFOs also subscribe to conspiracy
theories. They need to to explain the 100% lack of any UFO evidence.
>
>
> My guess is that Rossi supporters are also UFO buffs.
>
>
>
> 
> From: bobcook39...@hotmail.com <bobcook39...@hotmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 3:25 PM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>
>
> MORE INFORMATION:
>
>
>
> http://worldnpa.org/abstracts/abstracts_paperlink_6835.pdf
>
> The Revolutionary Plasma Power Technology of Josef Papp
> worldnpa.org
> The Revolutionary Plasma Power Technology of Josef Papp Barry Springer
NPA Web Seminar November 24, 2012 Updated April 7, 2013
>
>
>
>
> It seems the FBI raided the Company developing the Papp engine in 2013
and the Government took the technology in to the dark IMHO.
>
>
>
> TOO BAD.
>
>
>
> I wonder if the company has been charged with a crime? Or merely given an
order curtailing their ability to communicate—i.e., speak.  They (the real
people affected) should check with the ACLU.
>
>
>
> The reported raid sounds typical of a shady attempt to curtail R
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
>
>
>
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>
>
>
> The following may help understanding:
>
>
>
> http://www.integrityresearchinstitute.org/PappEngine-Valone.pdf
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
> From: Axil Axil
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:05 PM
> To: vortex-l
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>
>
>
> ·One of the big mysteries of the Papp engine is understanding the
Papp engine fuel preparation device. What does that device do and why is it
important to the function of the Papp engine? All the Papp engine
replicators have discounted the need to use this fuel prep device and try
to get the Papp engine to work without prepared fuel. Papp knew that
prepared fuel was critically important to getting the engine to work. Three
months before his death in 1989, Papp destroyed all the fuel he had
prepared so that no one could ever get his engine to work ever again. The
engine laid useless inside his workshop. That engine was his alone forever
and could never be shared with the world.
>
>
>
> The cavitation theory of the Papp engine provides the reason why fuel
preparation is essential. A intense shock wave is required to form the
ultra dense crystal nature of the fuel in the alternate paired cylinder.
Without that shockwave, active fuel cannot be formed. The fuel preparation
device produced ultra dense water and latter in the fuel to act as a
bootstrap or initial plasma shock wave so that cavitation could occur in
the paired cylinder. Without that first shock wave, recurring fuel
formation does not begin in the alternate cylinder when the compression of
the water vapor/gas is underway.
>
>
>
> Papp used this prepared fuel to disintegrate a 5/8 inch stainless steel
pipe when he demoed his Papp common in the desert.
>
>
>
> oEdit
>
> o
>
> o
>
> ·
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based
device.
>
>
>
> In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water
crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of
the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment
inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing
ultra dense water crystals.
>
>
>
> For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to
high compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the cylinder
wall induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against the
cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases to
leak into the coolant.
>
>
>
> To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
subsequent loss of compress

Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Axil Axil]

Papp never wanted to manufacture his invention that was too much work and
aggravation. His living involved getting money from backers using a
function invention as bait. He used his invention to extract capital from
people to finance a good life in Florida.



This retirement strategy could be what Rossi wants to do. Time will tell.
But Rossi does not seem to be the type that avoids aggravation; instead, he
seems to thrive in that condition. If Rossi proceeds to manufacturing his
product, then Rossi is the real deal. This final juncture in the Rossi saga
is the judgment point about Rossi for me.



On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 5:24 PM, Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com> wrote:

> So now we rely on conspiracy theories when the technology cannot be made
> to work.
>
>
> Occam's Razor would suggest an inability of the  inventor, not his
> government agents acting ill.
>
>
> Over 90% of folks who believe in UFOs also subscribe to conspiracy
> theories. They need to to explain the 100% lack of any UFO evidence.
>
>
> My guess is that Rossi supporters are also UFO buffs.
>
>
> --
> *From:* bobcook39...@hotmail.com <bobcook39...@hotmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 25, 2017 3:25 PM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* RE: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>
>
> MORE INFORMATION:
>
>
>
> http://worldnpa.org/abstracts/abstracts_paperlink_6835.pdf
>
> The Revolutionary Plasma Power Technology of Josef Papp
> <http://worldnpa.org/abstracts/abstracts_paperlink_6835.pdf>
> worldnpa.org
> The Revolutionary Plasma Power Technology of Josef Papp Barry Springer NPA
> Web Seminar November 24, 2012 Updated April 7, 2013
>
>
>
>
> It seems the FBI raided the Company developing the Papp engine in 2013 and
> the Government took the technology in to the dark IMHO.
>
>
>
> TOO BAD.
>
>
>
> I wonder if the company has been charged with a crime? Or merely given an
> order curtailing their ability to communicate—i.e., speak.  They (the real
> people affected) should check with the ACLU.
>
>
>
> The reported raid sounds typical of a shady attempt to curtail R
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
>
>
>
> *Subject: *RE: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>
>
>
> The following may help understanding:
>
>
>
> http://www.integrityresearchinstitute.org/PappEngine-Valone.pdf
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
> *From: *Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Monday, July 24, 2017 12:05 PM
> *To: *vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>
>
>
> ·One of the big mysteries of the Papp engine is understanding the
> Papp engine fuel preparation device. What does that device do and why is it
> important to the function of the Papp engine? All the Papp engine
> replicators have discounted the need to use this fuel prep device and try
> to get the Papp engine to work without prepared fuel. Papp knew that
> prepared fuel was critically important to getting the engine to work. Three
> months before his death in 1989, Papp destroyed all the fuel he had
> prepared so that no one could ever get his engine to work ever again. The
> engine laid useless inside his workshop. That engine was his alone forever
> and could never be shared with the world.
>
>
>
> The cavitation theory of the Papp engine provides the reason why fuel
> preparation is essential. A intense shock wave is required to form the
> ultra dense crystal nature of the fuel in the alternate paired cylinder.
> Without that shockwave, active fuel cannot be formed. The fuel preparation
> device produced ultra dense water and latter in the fuel to act as a
> bootstrap or initial plasma shock wave so that cavitation could occur in
> the paired cylinder. Without that first shock wave, recurring fuel
> formation does not begin in the alternate cylinder when the compression of
> the water vapor/gas is underway.
>
>
>
> Papp used this prepared fuel to disintegrate a 5/8 inch stainless steel
> pipe when he demoed his Papp common in the desert.
>
>
>
> [image: Joseph-Papp-Cannon-1.jpg]
> <https://www.lenr-forum.com/image-proxy/?key=998716491dd35bfa8775404889e158043cfdbac45986a6962e9cadbf31078490-aHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbWVyaWNhbmFudGlncmF2aXR5LmNvbS93cC1jb250ZW50L3VwbG9hZHMvMjAxMi8wOS9Kb3NlcGgtUGFwcC1DYW5ub24tMS5qcGc%3D>
>
> oEdit
> <https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/5306-the-papp-engine-and-cavitation/?postID=66493>
>
> o
>
> o
>
> ·
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based
> device.
>
>
>
> In 

Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Brian Ahern]

So now we rely on conspiracy theories when the technology cannot be made to 
work.


Occam's Razor would suggest an inability of the  inventor, not his government 
agents acting ill.


Over 90% of folks who believe in UFOs also subscribe to conspiracy theories. 
They need to to explain the 100% lack of any UFO evidence.


My guess is that Rossi supporters are also UFO buffs.



From: bobcook39...@hotmail.com <bobcook39...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 3:25 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation


MORE INFORMATION:



http://worldnpa.org/abstracts/abstracts_paperlink_6835.pdf

The Revolutionary Plasma Power Technology of Josef 
Papp<http://worldnpa.org/abstracts/abstracts_paperlink_6835.pdf>
worldnpa.org
The Revolutionary Plasma Power Technology of Josef Papp Barry Springer NPA Web 
Seminar November 24, 2012 Updated April 7, 2013





It seems the FBI raided the Company developing the Papp engine in 2013 and the 
Government took the technology in to the dark IMHO.



TOO BAD.



I wonder if the company has been charged with a crime? Or merely given an order 
curtailing their ability to communicate—i.e., speak.  They (the real people 
affected) should check with the ACLU.



The reported raid sounds typical of a shady attempt to curtail R



Bob Cook



Subject: RE: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation



The following may help understanding:



http://www.integrityresearchinstitute.org/PappEngine-Valone.pdf



Bob Cook

From: Axil Axil<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:05 PM
To: vortex-l<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation



•One of the big mysteries of the Papp engine is understanding the Papp 
engine fuel preparation device. What does that device do and why is it 
important to the function of the Papp engine? All the Papp engine replicators 
have discounted the need to use this fuel prep device and try to get the Papp 
engine to work without prepared fuel. Papp knew that prepared fuel was 
critically important to getting the engine to work. Three months before his 
death in 1989, Papp destroyed all the fuel he had prepared so that no one could 
ever get his engine to work ever again. The engine laid useless inside his 
workshop. That engine was his alone forever and could never be shared with the 
world.



The cavitation theory of the Papp engine provides the reason why fuel 
preparation is essential. A intense shock wave is required to form the ultra 
dense crystal nature of the fuel in the alternate paired cylinder. Without that 
shockwave, active fuel cannot be formed. The fuel preparation device produced 
ultra dense water and latter in the fuel to act as a bootstrap or initial 
plasma shock wave so that cavitation could occur in the paired cylinder. 
Without that first shock wave, recurring fuel formation does not begin in the 
alternate cylinder when the compression of the water vapor/gas is underway.



Papp used this prepared fuel to disintegrate a 5/8 inch stainless steel pipe 
when he demoed his Papp common in the desert.



[Joseph-Papp-Cannon-1.jpg]<https://www.lenr-forum.com/image-proxy/?key=998716491dd35bfa8775404889e158043cfdbac45986a6962e9cadbf31078490-aHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbWVyaWNhbmFudGlncmF2aXR5LmNvbS93cC1jb250ZW50L3VwbG9hZHMvMjAxMi8wOS9Kb3NlcGgtUGFwcC1DYW5ub24tMS5qcGc%3D>

o
Edit<https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/5306-the-papp-engine-and-cavitation/?postID=66493>

o

o

•



On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil 
<janap...@gmail.com<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based device.



In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water 
crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of the 
cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment inside the 
cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing ultra dense 
water crystals.



For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to high 
compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the cylinder wall 
induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against the cylinder 
wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will eventually let 
cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases to leak into the 
coolant.



To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the subsequent 
loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which produce ultra 
dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the cylinder cycle but 
the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not damage the cylinder 
walls.



When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as happens 
in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals produce atomic 
particle fragments that move outwar

Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Axil Axil]

That was John Rohner, Bob Rohner is still at it.

See



http://revolution-green.com/unconventional-green-energy/the-papp-engine-history-and-current-progress/



On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 3:25 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> MORE INFORMATION:
>
>
>
> http://worldnpa.org/abstracts/abstracts_paperlink_6835.pdf
>
>
>
> It seems the FBI raided the Company developing the Papp engine in 2013 and
> the Government took the technology in to the dark IMHO.
>
>
>
> TOO BAD.
>
>
>
> I wonder if the company has been charged with a crime? Or merely given an
> order curtailing their ability to communicate—i.e., speak.  They (the real
> people affected) should check with the ACLU.
>
>
>
> The reported raid sounds typical of a shady attempt to curtail R
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
>
>
>
> *Subject: *RE: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>
>
>
> The following may help understanding:
>
>
>
> http://www.integrityresearchinstitute.org/PappEngine-Valone.pdf
>
>
>
> Bob Cook
>
> *From: *Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Monday, July 24, 2017 12:05 PM
> *To: *vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>
>
>
> ·One of the big mysteries of the Papp engine is understanding the
> Papp engine fuel preparation device. What does that device do and why is it
> important to the function of the Papp engine? All the Papp engine
> replicators have discounted the need to use this fuel prep device and try
> to get the Papp engine to work without prepared fuel. Papp knew that
> prepared fuel was critically important to getting the engine to work. Three
> months before his death in 1989, Papp destroyed all the fuel he had
> prepared so that no one could ever get his engine to work ever again. The
> engine laid useless inside his workshop. That engine was his alone forever
> and could never be shared with the world.
>
>
>
> The cavitation theory of the Papp engine provides the reason why fuel
> preparation is essential. A intense shock wave is required to form the
> ultra dense crystal nature of the fuel in the alternate paired cylinder.
> Without that shockwave, active fuel cannot be formed. The fuel preparation
> device produced ultra dense water and latter in the fuel to act as a
> bootstrap or initial plasma shock wave so that cavitation could occur in
> the paired cylinder. Without that first shock wave, recurring fuel
> formation does not begin in the alternate cylinder when the compression of
> the water vapor/gas is underway.
>
>
>
> Papp used this prepared fuel to disintegrate a 5/8 inch stainless steel
> pipe when he demoed his Papp common in the desert.
>
>
>
> [image: Joseph-Papp-Cannon-1.jpg]
> <https://www.lenr-forum.com/image-proxy/?key=998716491dd35bfa8775404889e158043cfdbac45986a6962e9cadbf31078490-aHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbWVyaWNhbmFudGlncmF2aXR5LmNvbS93cC1jb250ZW50L3VwbG9hZHMvMjAxMi8wOS9Kb3NlcGgtUGFwcC1DYW5ub24tMS5qcGc%3D>
>
> oEdit
> <https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/5306-the-papp-engine-and-cavitation/?postID=66493>
>
> o
>
> o
>
> ·
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based
> device.
>
>
>
> In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water
> crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of
> the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment
> inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing
> ultra dense water crystals.
>
>
>
> For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to
> high compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
> cylinder wall induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against
> the cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
> eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases
> to leak into the coolant.
>
>
>
> To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
> subsequent loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which
> produce ultra dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the
> cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not
> damage the cylinder walls.
>
>
>
> When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as
> happens in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals
> produce atomic particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of
> light. Currently, Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy
> inherent to his expanding plasma.
>
>
>
> To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture that
> nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design using
> ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

MORE INFORMATION:

http://worldnpa.org/abstracts/abstracts_paperlink_6835.pdf

It seems the FBI raided the Company developing the Papp engine in 2013 and the 
Government took the technology in to the dark IMHO.

TOO BAD.

I wonder if the company has been charged with a crime? Or merely given an order 
curtailing their ability to communicate—i.e., speak.  They (the real people 
affected) should check with the ACLU.

The reported raid sounds typical of a shady attempt to curtail R

Bob Cook


Subject: RE: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

The following may help understanding:

http://www.integrityresearchinstitute.org/PappEngine-Valone.pdf

Bob Cook
From: Axil Axil<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:05 PM
To: vortex-l<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation


·One of the big mysteries of the Papp engine is understanding the Papp 
engine fuel preparation device. What does that device do and why is it 
important to the function of the Papp engine? All the Papp engine replicators 
have discounted the need to use this fuel prep device and try to get the Papp 
engine to work without prepared fuel. Papp knew that prepared fuel was 
critically important to getting the engine to work. Three months before his 
death in 1989, Papp destroyed all the fuel he had prepared so that no one could 
ever get his engine to work ever again. The engine laid useless inside his 
workshop. That engine was his alone forever and could never be shared with the 
world.



The cavitation theory of the Papp engine provides the reason why fuel 
preparation is essential. A intense shock wave is required to form the ultra 
dense crystal nature of the fuel in the alternate paired cylinder. Without that 
shockwave, active fuel cannot be formed. The fuel preparation device produced 
ultra dense water and latter in the fuel to act as a bootstrap or initial 
plasma shock wave so that cavitation could occur in the paired cylinder. 
Without that first shock wave, recurring fuel formation does not begin in the 
alternate cylinder when the compression of the water vapor/gas is underway.



Papp used this prepared fuel to disintegrate a 5/8 inch stainless steel pipe 
when he demoed his Papp common in the desert.



[Joseph-Papp-Cannon-1.jpg]<https://www.lenr-forum.com/image-proxy/?key=998716491dd35bfa8775404889e158043cfdbac45986a6962e9cadbf31078490-aHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbWVyaWNhbmFudGlncmF2aXR5LmNvbS93cC1jb250ZW50L3VwbG9hZHMvMjAxMi8wOS9Kb3NlcGgtUGFwcC1DYW5ub24tMS5qcGc%3D>
o
Edit<https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/5306-the-papp-engine-and-cavitation/?postID=66493>
o
o
·

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil 
<janap...@gmail.com<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based device.

In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water 
crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of the 
cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment inside the 
cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing ultra dense 
water crystals.

For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to high 
compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the cylinder wall 
induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against the cylinder 
wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will eventually let 
cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases to leak into the 
coolant.

To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the subsequent 
loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which produce ultra 
dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the cylinder cycle but 
the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not damage the cylinder 
walls.

When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as happens 
in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals produce atomic 
particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of light. Currently, 
Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy inherent to his expanding 
plasma.

To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture that 
nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design using 
ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.

RE: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

The following may help understanding:

http://www.integrityresearchinstitute.org/PappEngine-Valone.pdf

Bob Cook
From: Axil Axil<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:05 PM
To: vortex-l<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation


·One of the big mysteries of the Papp engine is understanding the Papp 
engine fuel preparation device. What does that device do and why is it 
important to the function of the Papp engine? All the Papp engine replicators 
have discounted the need to use this fuel prep device and try to get the Papp 
engine to work without prepared fuel. Papp knew that prepared fuel was 
critically important to getting the engine to work. Three months before his 
death in 1989, Papp destroyed all the fuel he had prepared so that no one could 
ever get his engine to work ever again. The engine laid useless inside his 
workshop. That engine was his alone forever and could never be shared with the 
world.



The cavitation theory of the Papp engine provides the reason why fuel 
preparation is essential. A intense shock wave is required to form the ultra 
dense crystal nature of the fuel in the alternate paired cylinder. Without that 
shockwave, active fuel cannot be formed. The fuel preparation device produced 
ultra dense water and latter in the fuel to act as a bootstrap or initial 
plasma shock wave so that cavitation could occur in the paired cylinder. 
Without that first shock wave, recurring fuel formation does not begin in the 
alternate cylinder when the compression of the water vapor/gas is underway.



Papp used this prepared fuel to disintegrate a 5/8 inch stainless steel pipe 
when he demoed his Papp common in the desert.



[Joseph-Papp-Cannon-1.jpg]<https://www.lenr-forum.com/image-proxy/?key=998716491dd35bfa8775404889e158043cfdbac45986a6962e9cadbf31078490-aHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbWVyaWNhbmFudGlncmF2aXR5LmNvbS93cC1jb250ZW50L3VwbG9hZHMvMjAxMi8wOS9Kb3NlcGgtUGFwcC1DYW5ub24tMS5qcGc%3D>
o
Edit<https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/5306-the-papp-engine-and-cavitation/?postID=66493>
o
o
·

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil 
<janap...@gmail.com<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based device.

In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water 
crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of the 
cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment inside the 
cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing ultra dense 
water crystals.

For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to high 
compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the cylinder wall 
induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against the cylinder 
wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will eventually let 
cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases to leak into the 
coolant.

To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the subsequent 
loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which produce ultra 
dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the cylinder cycle but 
the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not damage the cylinder 
walls.

When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as happens 
in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals produce atomic 
particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of light. Currently, 
Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy inherent to his expanding 
plasma.

To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture that 
nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design using 
ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.

Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Axil Axil]

It seems to be rather easy to test the noble gas cavitation posit. With the
advent of barbell type acoustic horns, a quantity of pressurized noble gas
mix might be treated with ultrasonic stimulation from the acoustic horn and
then excited with a spark. If the noble gas mix explodes then the design of
an acoustic horn based cavitation engine is straightforward.

Some insights on how to build such a cavitation based reactor might come
from something like this...one large acoustic driver with a pickup for each
cylinder

http://www.mittoncavitation.com/about-mitton-cavitation-reactors.php

[image: Mitton Reactor]

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

>
>-
>
>One of the big mysteries of the Papp engine is understanding the Papp
>engine fuel preparation device. What does that device do and why is it
>important to the function of the Papp engine? All the Papp engine
>replicators have discounted the need to use this fuel prep device and try
>to get the Papp engine to work without prepared fuel. Papp knew that
>prepared fuel was critically important to getting the engine to work. Three
>months before his death in 1989, Papp destroyed all the fuel he had
>prepared so that no one could ever get his engine to work ever again. The
>engine laid useless inside his workshop. That engine was his alone forever
>and could never be shared with the world.
>
>
>The cavitation theory of the Papp engine provides the reason why fuel
>preparation is essential. A intense shock wave is required to form the
>ultra dense crystal nature of the fuel in the alternate paired cylinder.
>Without that shockwave, active fuel cannot be formed. The fuel preparation
>device produced ultra dense water and latter in the fuel to act as a
>bootstrap or initial plasma shock wave so that cavitation could occur in
>the paired cylinder. Without that first shock wave, recurring fuel
>formation does not begin in the alternate cylinder when the compression of
>the water vapor/gas is underway.
>
>
>Papp used this prepared fuel to disintegrate a 5/8 inch stainless
>steel pipe when he demoed his Papp common in the desert.
>
>
>[image: Joseph-Papp-Cannon-1.jpg]
>
> 
>-  Edit
>   
> 
>   -
>   
> 
>   -
>   
> 
>-
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based
>> device.
>>
>> In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water
>> crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of
>> the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment
>> inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing
>> ultra dense water crystals.
>>
>> For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to
>> high compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
>> cylinder wall induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against
>> the cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
>> eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases
>> to leak into the coolant.
>>
>> To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
>> subsequent loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which
>> produce ultra dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the
>> cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not
>> damage the cylinder walls.
>>
>> When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as
>> happens in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals
>> produce atomic particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of
>> light. Currently, Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy
>> inherent to his expanding plasma.
>>
>> To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture that
>> nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design using
>> ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Axil Axil]

   -

   One of the big mysteries of the Papp engine is understanding the Papp
   engine fuel preparation device. What does that device do and why is it
   important to the function of the Papp engine? All the Papp engine
   replicators have discounted the need to use this fuel prep device and try
   to get the Papp engine to work without prepared fuel. Papp knew that
   prepared fuel was critically important to getting the engine to work. Three
   months before his death in 1989, Papp destroyed all the fuel he had
   prepared so that no one could ever get his engine to work ever again. The
   engine laid useless inside his workshop. That engine was his alone forever
   and could never be shared with the world.


   The cavitation theory of the Papp engine provides the reason why fuel
   preparation is essential. A intense shock wave is required to form the
   ultra dense crystal nature of the fuel in the alternate paired cylinder.
   Without that shockwave, active fuel cannot be formed. The fuel preparation
   device produced ultra dense water and latter in the fuel to act as a
   bootstrap or initial plasma shock wave so that cavitation could occur in
   the paired cylinder. Without that first shock wave, recurring fuel
   formation does not begin in the alternate cylinder when the compression of
   the water vapor/gas is underway.


   Papp used this prepared fuel to disintegrate a 5/8 inch stainless steel
   pipe when he demoed his Papp common in the desert.


   [image: Joseph-Papp-Cannon-1.jpg]
   

   -  Edit
  

  -
  

  -
  

   -


On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based
> device.
>
> In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water
> crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of
> the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment
> inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing
> ultra dense water crystals.
>
> For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to
> high compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
> cylinder wall induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against
> the cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
> eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases
> to leak into the coolant.
>
> To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
> subsequent loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which
> produce ultra dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the
> cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not
> damage the cylinder walls.
>
> When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as
> happens in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals
> produce atomic particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of
> light. Currently, Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy
> inherent to his expanding plasma.
>
> To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture that
> nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design using
> ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.
>

Re: Fw: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[vrand2...@gmail.com]

On 7/23/2017 4:48 PM, vrand2...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,

More information on Fisher/Oriani Collaboration in a 2010 article in 
Infinite Energy Magazine, the two scientists that Mark Hugo talked about 
in the Papp Engine video:


*https://tinyurl.com/yc2ffvvl*

Regard,
Michael Randall


Hi,

Check out Mark Hugo, ME video on his understanding on the operation of 
the Papp Engine.


*"It's Not HHO: Cold Fusion & The Papp Engine" *
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foIWltOShO0

Regards,
Michael Randall

On 7/23/2017 4:14 PM, Axil Axil wrote:

See

http://www.rexresearch.com/papp/1papp.htm



On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 7:08 PM, Che <comandantegri...@gmail.com 
<mailto:comandantegri...@gmail.com>> wrote:



So where's this patent?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 7:06 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com
<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Papp spent a few years developing the noble gas version of
his  engine control that was more stable. By the early '80s,
Papp found a new engineer to work with, Bob Rohner of West
Liberty, Iowa. Papp settled in Florida. Several working
engines ran during the Rohner years, which lasted until Papp
died in '89. During this time, his third patent application
was met with a USPTO request for a working model. Papp
refused to not only take an engine to Washington DC, but also
to leave it with anyone for any length of time. The USPTO
then requested a dynamometer affidavit. A diesel engine test
group associated with the University of Oklahoma agreed to
come to Florida to test the engine. The affidavit was
accepted by the USPTO and they issued the patent.

That patent was designated by the patent office to be the
best patent granted in that patent year.

What other overunity devices has be granted a patent?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Brian Ahern
<ahern_br...@msn.com <mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com>> wrote:


Rossi  - Papp  What's the difference. There is not
support data.



*From:* Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com
<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>>
*Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 5:53 PM
    *To:* vortex-l
*Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
I have been trying to understate how the Papp engine
works for years. It is a mystery. This is no information
available on how it works.

A clue to the production of a plasma based explosion is
now coming from Holmlid's experiments. Holmlid has just
discovered that a spark can be used to activate that
plasma explosion just as well as a laser pulse.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Che
<comandantegri...@gmail.com
<mailto:comandantegri...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Where's the best online source to go to for
information on this?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil
<janap...@gmail.com <mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine
was a cavitation based device.

In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp
must have produced water crystals in the
compression part of the cylinder cycle where the
volume of the cylinder was decreasing. During
this increasing pressure environment inside the
cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed
thereby producing ultra dense water crystals.

For example, some larger diesel engines suffer
from cavitation due to high compression and
undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
cylinder wall induce alternating low and high
pressure in the coolant against the cylinder
wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall,
which will eventually let cooling fluid leak into
the cylinder and combustion gases to leak into
the coolant.

To stop the cavitation based erosion of the
cylinder walls and the subsequent loss of
compression over time, Papp went to noble gases
which produce ultra dense noble gas
crystals during the compression stage of the
cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense
noble gas crystals did not damage the cylinder walls.

When Papp fired a spark, the

Re: Fw: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[vrand2...@gmail.com]

Hi,

Check out Mark Hugo, ME video on his understanding on the operation of 
the Papp Engine.


*"It's Not HHO: Cold Fusion & The Papp Engine" *
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foIWltOShO0

Regards,
Michael Randall

On 7/23/2017 4:14 PM, Axil Axil wrote:

See

http://www.rexresearch.com/papp/1papp.htm



On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 7:08 PM, Che <comandantegri...@gmail.com 
<mailto:comandantegri...@gmail.com>> wrote:



So where's this patent?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 7:06 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com
<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Papp spent a few years developing the noble gas version of his
 engine control that was more stable. By the early '80s, Papp
found a new engineer to work with, Bob Rohner of West Liberty,
Iowa. Papp settled in Florida. Several working engines ran
during the Rohner years, which lasted until Papp died in '89.
During this time, his third patent application was met with a
USPTO request for a working model. Papp refused to not only
take an engine to Washington DC, but also to leave it with
anyone for any length of time. The USPTO then requested a
dynamometer affidavit. A diesel engine test group associated
with the University of Oklahoma agreed to come to Florida to
test the engine. The affidavit was accepted by the USPTO and
they issued the patent.

That patent was designated by the patent office to be the best
patent granted in that patent year.

What other overunity devices has be granted a patent?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Brian Ahern
<ahern_br...@msn.com <mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com>> wrote:


Rossi  - Papp  What's the difference. There is not support
data.



*From:* Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com
<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>>
*Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 5:53 PM
    *To:* vortex-l
*Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
I have been trying to understate how the Papp engine works
for years. It is a mystery. This is no information
available on how it works.

A clue to the production of a plasma based explosion is
now coming from Holmlid's experiments. Holmlid has just
discovered that a spark can be used to activate that
plasma explosion just as well as a laser pulse.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Che
<comandantegri...@gmail.com
<mailto:comandantegri...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Where's the best online source to go to for
information on this?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil
<janap...@gmail.com <mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine
was a cavitation based device.

In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp
must have produced water crystals in the
compression part of the cylinder cycle where the
volume of the cylinder was decreasing. During this
increasing pressure environment inside the
cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed
thereby producing ultra dense water crystals.

For example, some larger diesel engines suffer
from cavitation due to high compression and
undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
cylinder wall induce alternating low and high
pressure in the coolant against the cylinder wall.
The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which
will eventually let cooling fluid leak into the
cylinder and combustion gases to leak into the
coolant.

To stop the cavitation based erosion of the
cylinder walls and the subsequent loss of
compression over time, Papp went to noble gases
which produce ultra dense noble gas
crystals during the compression stage of the
cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense
noble gas crystals did not damage the cylinder walls.

When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas
crystals exploded as happens in the Holmlid
experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals
produce atomic particle fragments that move
outward at 3/4 the speed of light. Currently,
H

Re: Fw: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Axil Axil]

See

http://www.rexresearch.com/papp/1papp.htm



On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 7:08 PM, Che <comandantegri...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> So where's this patent?
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 7:06 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Papp spent a few years developing the noble gas version of his  engine
>> control that was more stable. By the early '80s, Papp found a new engineer
>> to work with, Bob Rohner of West Liberty, Iowa. Papp settled in Florida.
>> Several working engines ran during the Rohner years, which lasted until
>> Papp died in '89. During this time, his third patent application was met
>> with a USPTO request for a working model. Papp refused to not only take an
>> engine to Washington DC, but also to leave it with anyone for any length of
>> time. The USPTO then requested a dynamometer affidavit. A diesel engine
>> test group associated with the University of Oklahoma agreed to come to
>> Florida to test the engine. The affidavit was accepted by the USPTO and
>> they issued the patent.
>>
>> That patent was designated by the patent office to be the best patent
>> granted in that patent year.
>>
>> What other overunity devices has be granted a patent?
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Rossi  - Papp  What's the difference. There is not support data.
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From:* Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 5:53 PM
>>> *To:* vortex-l
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>>>
>>> I have been trying to understate how the Papp engine works for years. It
>>> is a mystery. This is no information available on how it works.
>>>
>>> A clue to the production of a plasma based explosion is now coming from
>>> Holmlid's experiments. Holmlid has just discovered that a spark can be used
>>> to activate that plasma explosion just as well as a laser pulse.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Che <comandantegri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Where's the best online source to go to for information on this?
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation
>>>>> based device.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced
>>>>> water crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the
>>>>> volume of the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure
>>>>> environment inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed
>>>>> thereby producing ultra dense water crystals.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to
>>>>> high compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
>>>>> cylinder wall induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant 
>>>>> against
>>>>> the cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
>>>>> eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion
>>>>> gases to leak into the coolant.
>>>>>
>>>>> To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
>>>>> subsequent loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which
>>>>> produce ultra dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the
>>>>> cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not
>>>>> damage the cylinder walls.
>>>>>
>>>>> When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded
>>>>> as happens in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen 
>>>>> cycltals
>>>>> produce atomic particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of
>>>>> light. Currently, Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy
>>>>> inherent to his expanding plasma.
>>>>>
>>>>> To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture
>>>>> that nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design
>>>>> using ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: Fw: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Che]

So where's this patent?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 7:06 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Papp spent a few years developing the noble gas version of his  engine
> control that was more stable. By the early '80s, Papp found a new engineer
> to work with, Bob Rohner of West Liberty, Iowa. Papp settled in Florida.
> Several working engines ran during the Rohner years, which lasted until
> Papp died in '89. During this time, his third patent application was met
> with a USPTO request for a working model. Papp refused to not only take an
> engine to Washington DC, but also to leave it with anyone for any length of
> time. The USPTO then requested a dynamometer affidavit. A diesel engine
> test group associated with the University of Oklahoma agreed to come to
> Florida to test the engine. The affidavit was accepted by the USPTO and
> they issued the patent.
>
> That patent was designated by the patent office to be the best patent
> granted in that patent year.
>
> What other overunity devices has be granted a patent?
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Rossi  - Papp  What's the difference. There is not support data.
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 5:53 PM
>> *To:* vortex-l
>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>>
>> I have been trying to understate how the Papp engine works for years. It
>> is a mystery. This is no information available on how it works.
>>
>> A clue to the production of a plasma based explosion is now coming from
>> Holmlid's experiments. Holmlid has just discovered that a spark can be used
>> to activate that plasma explosion just as well as a laser pulse.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Che <comandantegri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Where's the best online source to go to for information on this?
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation
>>>> based device.
>>>>
>>>> In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced
>>>> water crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the
>>>> volume of the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure
>>>> environment inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed
>>>> thereby producing ultra dense water crystals.
>>>>
>>>> For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to
>>>> high compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
>>>> cylinder wall induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant 
>>>> against
>>>> the cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
>>>> eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion
>>>> gases to leak into the coolant.
>>>>
>>>> To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
>>>> subsequent loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which
>>>> produce ultra dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the
>>>> cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not
>>>> damage the cylinder walls.
>>>>
>>>> When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as
>>>> happens in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals
>>>> produce atomic particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of
>>>> light. Currently, Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy
>>>> inherent to his expanding plasma.
>>>>
>>>> To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture
>>>> that nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design
>>>> using ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: Fw: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Axil Axil]

Papp spent a few years developing the noble gas version of his  engine
control that was more stable. By the early '80s, Papp found a new engineer
to work with, Bob Rohner of West Liberty, Iowa. Papp settled in Florida.
Several working engines ran during the Rohner years, which lasted until
Papp died in '89. During this time, his third patent application was met
with a USPTO request for a working model. Papp refused to not only take an
engine to Washington DC, but also to leave it with anyone for any length of
time. The USPTO then requested a dynamometer affidavit. A diesel engine
test group associated with the University of Oklahoma agreed to come to
Florida to test the engine. The affidavit was accepted by the USPTO and
they issued the patent.

That patent was designated by the patent office to be the best patent
granted in that patent year.

What other overunity devices has be granted a patent?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com> wrote:

>
> Rossi  - Papp  What's the difference. There is not support data.
>
> --
> *From:* Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 23, 2017 5:53 PM
> *To:* vortex-l
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation
>
> I have been trying to understate how the Papp engine works for years. It
> is a mystery. This is no information available on how it works.
>
> A clue to the production of a plasma based explosion is now coming from
> Holmlid's experiments. Holmlid has just discovered that a spark can be used
> to activate that plasma explosion just as well as a laser pulse.
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Che <comandantegri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Where's the best online source to go to for information on this?
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based
>>> device.
>>>
>>> In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced
>>> water crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the
>>> volume of the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure
>>> environment inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed
>>> thereby producing ultra dense water crystals.
>>>
>>> For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to
>>> high compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
>>> cylinder wall induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant 
>>> against
>>> the cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
>>> eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion
>>> gases to leak into the coolant.
>>>
>>> To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
>>> subsequent loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which
>>> produce ultra dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the
>>> cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not
>>> damage the cylinder walls.
>>>
>>> When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as
>>> happens in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals
>>> produce atomic particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of
>>> light. Currently, Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy
>>> inherent to his expanding plasma.
>>>
>>> To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture
>>> that nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design
>>> using ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.
>>>
>>
>>
>

Fw: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Brian Ahern]

Rossi  - Papp  What's the difference. There is not support data.


From: Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 5:53 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

I have been trying to understate how the Papp engine works for years. It is a 
mystery. This is no information available on how it works.

A clue to the production of a plasma based explosion is now coming from 
Holmlid's experiments. Holmlid has just discovered that a spark can be used to 
activate that plasma explosion just as well as a laser pulse.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Che 
<comandantegri...@gmail.com<mailto:comandantegri...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Where's the best online source to go to for information on this?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil 
<janap...@gmail.com<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based device.

In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water 
crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of the 
cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment inside the 
cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing ultra dense 
water crystals.

For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to high 
compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the cylinder wall 
induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against the cylinder 
wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will eventually let 
cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases to leak into the 
coolant.

To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the subsequent 
loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which produce ultra 
dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the cylinder cycle but 
the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not damage the cylinder 
walls.

When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as happens 
in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals produce atomic 
particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of light. Currently, 
Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy inherent to his expanding 
plasma.

To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture that 
nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design using 
ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.

Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Axil Axil]

I have been trying to understate how the Papp engine works for years. It is
a mystery. This is no information available on how it works.

A clue to the production of a plasma based explosion is now coming from
Holmlid's experiments. Holmlid has just discovered that a spark can be used
to activate that plasma explosion just as well as a laser pulse.

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Che  wrote:

>
> Where's the best online source to go to for information on this?
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based
>> device.
>>
>> In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water
>> crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of
>> the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment
>> inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing
>> ultra dense water crystals.
>>
>> For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to
>> high compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
>> cylinder wall induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against
>> the cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
>> eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases
>> to leak into the coolant.
>>
>> To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
>> subsequent loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which
>> produce ultra dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the
>> cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not
>> damage the cylinder walls.
>>
>> When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as
>> happens in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals
>> produce atomic particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of
>> light. Currently, Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy
>> inherent to his expanding plasma.
>>
>> To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture that
>> nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design using
>> ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Che]

Where's the best online source to go to for information on this?

On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based
> device.
>
> In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water
> crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of
> the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment
> inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing
> ultra dense water crystals.
>
> For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to
> high compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the
> cylinder wall induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against
> the cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
> eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases
> to leak into the coolant.
>
> To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
> subsequent loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which
> produce ultra dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the
> cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not
> damage the cylinder walls.
>
> When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as
> happens in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals
> produce atomic particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of
> light. Currently, Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy
> inherent to his expanding plasma.
>
> To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture that
> nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design using
> ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.
>

[Vo]:The Papp engine and cavitation

[Axil Axil]

I am beginning to understand that the Papp engine was a cavitation based
device.

In the 1960's Papp used water for his fuel. Papp must have produced water
crystals in the compression part of the cylinder cycle where the volume of
the cylinder was decreasing. During this increasing pressure environment
inside the cylinder, cavitation bubbles must have formed thereby producing
ultra dense water crystals.

For example, some larger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to high
compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the cylinder wall
induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against the
cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall, which will
eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases to
leak into the coolant.

To stop the cavitation based erosion of the cylinder walls and the
subsequent loss of compression over time, Papp went to noble gases which
produce ultra dense noble gas crystals during the compression stage of the
cylinder cycle but the formation of ultra dense noble gas crystals did not
damage the cylinder walls.

When Papp fired a spark, the ultra dense noble gas crystals exploded as
happens in the Holmlid experiment when the ultra dense hydrogen cycltals
produce atomic particle fragments that move outward at 3/4 the speed of
light. Currently, Holmlid does not capture that huge amount of energy
inherent to his expanding plasma.

To utilize the energy in the expanding plasma, Holmlid might capture that
nuclear powered expanding plasma as Papp once did in an engine design using
ultra dense hydrogen as fuel.