On Thu, Sep 01, 2005 at 11:32:11PM +0200, Hugh Perkins wrote:
What Peter said. I think. It's been a while :-)
Random aside: I've been playing with .Net at work; it's kindof cool, though
it's basically VB with a C++ syntactic sugar. I dunno why people claim that
C# means the end of VB,
Lalo Martins wrote:
And so says Reed Hedges on 05/09/05 09:44...
Has anyone else been hacking on Terangreal to build in unicode mode?
actually, I have (see the thread can't compile ter'angreal from cvs).
With help from Peter and a lot of back-bending over wx documentation,
this is what I
A comparison of Google searches for VRML, X3D, Shockwave3D and Adobe
Atmosphere:
http://www.karmanaut.com/virtuality/zeitgeist/
VRML comes out way ahead, followed by X3D. Both are actually increasing.
Shockwave and Atmosphere are no longer supported by Macromedia or Adobe
and are losing.
Hello, after about a week hiatus, I returned to a little bit of work I
was doing with Python. All of a sudden the SWIG wrapper won't work for
me and I don't know why. I may have done something to break it (I have
made a few changes to vos_swig.i etc.) but I can't figure out what. I
just updated
And collaborative development online.
On Nerd TV: http://www.pbs.org/cringely/nerdtv/
(at the end).
But he couldn't remember the name of Snow Crash :)
Reed
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Reed Hedges wrote:
Well one of the easiest things to immediately grasp is simple key=value
pairs.
And then they're always the good old INI format that everyone knows and
loves or hates, though it doesn't really do hierarchy so well
[objectname]
key = value
key = value
key = value
On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 08:47:18AM -0400, David Henry wrote:
Suggested MSRP is approximately $19,995 USD.
Maybe I can trade in my car for one... won't be going anywhere for a while
anyway! :D
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OPML, Outline Processor Markup Language
http://www.opml.org/about
OPML an XML-based format that allows exchange of outline-structured information
between applications running on different operating systems and environments.
http://www.opml.org/spec
aparrently the registrar did this thing (scam?) where they gave it to
me free for the last year or whatever but now we'd have to pay for it
to keep it.
On Nov 5, 2005, at 1:30 PM, Peter Amstutz wrote:
interreality.info
--
Reed Hedges
http://intterreality.org/~reed
AIM: ReedHedges
Begin forwarded message:
From: Chris Marrin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: November 11, 2005 11:33:14 AM EST
To: George Birbilis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Reed Hedges [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web3D Mailing List
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [www-vrml] Announcing Emma 0.4
George Birbilis wrote:
see
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Peter Amstutz wrote:
Just wanted to mention, I reached a milestone tonight. Although I
haven't gotten ter'angreal compiled, I do now have a working version of
vostest (the sample vos app in CS) that was built with Visual Studio 8.
This means
On Dec 10, 2005, at 1:14 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote:
That's an important distinction. Is the chat code going to be integral
to the VOS protocol, or is it going to be relegated to the role of a
standard plugin?
Jonathan, there are two aspects to doing chat in VOS. One is the
Talkative vobject
Hmm OK thinking about this a bit more.
I don't really think that Talkative and client actions should be
conflated at the Vobject level. Instead, I suggest modifying that
aspect of actions like this: The server could provide (a) seperate
MetaObject(s) to which the client can send
Would the browser/user-display Vobjects be attached to the avatar
object?
Reed
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--
Reed Hedges
http://intterreality.org/~reed
AIM: ReedHedges
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I've wanted to implement some board games in vos for a while, but those
might be too boring :)
One thing we should realize, that although we would be aiming for Quake
style gameplay, it's not going to be quite the same. That's our model
for what you do in the game, not trying to replicate
Hermetic, Yes I'm still working on the VRML Server. I'm on a
secondary mission at the moment getting TerAngreal to display
hierarchically nested objects, then back to VRMLServer. So the code is
in CVS if anyone wants to help, but it's sort of in transition so let's
coordinate. One thing
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swe wrote:
Hi Reed,
yea, great, well... I thought simply to write a perl converter while I
read some vos content code snipets (sorry you c++ gods:
perl nearly only I know nesides c and c++ fragments ;)
That's great. You can convert to either
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Peter Amstutz wrote:
Well, while it's not my intention to put in an inordinant amount of
effort replicating the exact gameplay of Quake or whatever, so far as
timing and latency goes one of the reasons for writing VIP (with it's
Low Latency
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One thing I can do for the immediate future is pre-populate the URL
field with vip://interreality.org/world so you can just hit the go
button. This would be a temporary measure until a better Home world
concept is designed.
Reed
Reed Hedges
On Dec 17, 2005, at 6:32 AM, Lalo Martins wrote:
h... and then if afterwards you want to get to this world, could
the
url for it perchance be about:config?
Haha, ... No.
It would simply be vip://localhost. Or since it would just be the same
site, it wouldn't really need a URL.
Well
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Some downsides to doing this are:
1. The VOS API is supposed to be stabalizing. I don't know if
libraries are considered part of the API but anyone who started writing
something using 0.22 is going to be annoyed when they upgrade.
2. Now a
On Jan 11, 2006, at 1:18 PM, Peter Amstutz wrote:
No, not yet. I need to update the config files to use XOD.
ok, let me know so i can make an RSS version of the news page (that's
why each news item is broken up into a couple of properties btw).
reed
--
Reed Hedges
http
This site is a giant list of web CMS (content management systems).
Take a look at the search page:
http://www.cmsmatrix.org/matrix/cms-matrix?func=search
If you hold your mouse over one of the critera it explains what it means.
This shows us what kinds of features people want in a CMS (and
http://www.cnri.reston.va.us/doa.html
Here is a short article about it:
http://www.cnri.reston.va.us/k-w.html
The overall goal is to make data structures last over time on the net; to be
portable to
new sites and technologies, etc.
(Found about it from an interesting interview:
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... Like CrystalZilla.
http://ubrowser.com/
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Oops, diddn't see Or's post! It's actually not in SecondLIfe, it was
just made by a LindenLab programmer.
Source code is available (builds in Windows).
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Peter Amstutz wrote:
On Tue, 7 Feb 2006, Lalo Martins wrote:
Or in other words - why would I use the existing swig stuff? :-)
I think that you will find that in the long run that SWIG is much more
maintainable that keeping up a set of
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May I change the initial window size of wxterangreal to 800x600? I think
that's a pretty safe size these days, and 640x480 is unusable.
Reed
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Lalo Martins wrote:
I have a semi-functional extension for server-side python scripting.
You can `bzr get` it from http://lalo.revisioncontrol.net/bzr/vos-python/
One thing, I wonder what the need for the ProxyListener is? If you
want to use a
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Peter Amstutz wrote:
Yea, it sounds like Lalo has something different in mind, so perhaps the
way to go is to go ahead with two different Python bindings and
eventually have a bake-off to decide which is better :-)\
Lalo, ideally your API would
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Peter Amstutz wrote:
However, the short answer to your original question (how to run omnivos)
is:
omnivos -c 3dworld-blocks.xod
Is loading plugin modules the same on Windows as in Linux?
Reed
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Enigmail
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3oJTopo7bWo6IcL3dAUWdFo=
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Peter Amstutz wrote:
Is loading plugin modules the same on Windows as in Linux?
Yes. Except the files are named .dll :-)\
Hmm, if you specify plugin file, but file can't be found, maybe it
should then try
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Karsten Otto wrote:
vos-0.23.0-pre2:
configure: still not looking for boost in /sw
solution: --with-boost=/sw
Pete, can you fix this?
missing libs/vos/extensions/revcontrol/revdefs.h
solution: copy file from CVS version
Fixed
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Karsten Otto wrote:
I am not very good with systems development on the mac yet, but if
mac_msg_trap() is
what it sounds like, this thread is stuck in some system call, which
would explain the
unresponsive GUI. Full stack trace below:
#0
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Karsten Otto wrote:
Thu Mar 2 13:04:06 2006 (2) CSA3DL Material] CS Material: material has
no textures, assuming it's color. (0, 0.8, 0.2)
Warnings like this occur multiple times, but the color values indicated
look fine to me,
so this
On Tue, Mar 14, 2006 at 03:26:28PM +0800, Lalo Martins wrote:
Not really... you can *emulate* dynamic typing on a more static language
like C++, but you only get dynamic typing between subclasses of a given
root point (RefCounted in the case of VOS, IIRC). In fact, vRef is one
of the best
No, I think it's Lalo who is telling you :)
On Wed, Mar 15, 2006 at 08:52:47AM -0500, Peter Amstutz wrote:
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This is the world's way of telling me I need to install the MySQL client
libraries so it will actually be compiled along with
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No, not misc:talkative, but not too far off -- a distributed system made
of product units themselves that coordinate to collect information or
perform other tasks normally done by a central computer system:
On Tue, Mar 21, 2006 at 11:01:36PM -0500, Peter Amstutz wrote:
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Hey reed, want to commit your changes to A3DL to support this change to
a3dldemo? :-)
Good idea. I'll do it when I get home.
Reed
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Well, it's probably not a coincidence, actually :)
Reed
Lalo Martins wrote:
Just a random thought... can probably be reused in some piece of
documentation.
The VOS object model neatly matches the way some people believe our
memory works.
On Mon, Mar 27, 2006 at 01:16:53PM +0800, Lalo Martins wrote:
Funny, that kind of ties into one other thing I have been thinking. It
is quite possible to have a VOS-based directory service, comparable to
Could the existing service directory system do this, with a bit of extra
structure? The
On Tue, Mar 28, 2006 at 02:36:11PM +0800, Lalo Martins wrote:
or Usenet still is -- a new entry requires human intervention. I think
this works well enough; while Usenet is pretty much institutionalised
spam, there is very little spam in newsgroup *names*.
There might be, but most nntp
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The whole talk listeners/relay system is a bit confusing and may have
bugs still. Once we know that it works well all the time with a simple
straightforwared API it might be worthwhile to abstract it for other
messages than just talk messages, to
http://www.web3d.org/community/blog/archives/2006/07/followers_1/
(BTW when people talk about nodes in VRML or X3D, think vobjects in VOS)
Reed
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I guess CORBA isn't really dead, since people still use it, but it also
never really took off the way its originators intended...
http://www.acmqueue.com/modules.php?name=Contentpa=showpagepid=396
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Haven't read it yet, but here it is:
http://labs.google.com/papers/bigtable.html
Bigtable: A Distributed Storage System for Structured Data
Fay Chang, Jeffrey Dean, Sanjay Ghemawat, Wilson C. Hsieh, Deborah A.
Wallach, Mike Burrows, Tushar Chandra, Andrew Fikes, and Robert E.
Gruber
On Sat, Sep 23, 2006 at 02:46:33PM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote:
Ideas for additional tools
--
* Vobject factories that simply clone some other vobjects, the ideal or
template objects. Can the current vobject factory extension do this?
This way you could clone
Can you give a prediction for how much the API will change for
applications? If the changes don't affect application design *too*
much, then we can continue working on applications while you work on
libvos.
Specifically,
* If Vobjects will only be accessed via Vobject handles, will we still
Doing Composite Applications Right
eWeek (10/16/06) Vol. 23, No. 41, P. D6; Sippl, Roger
Above All Software Chairman Roger Sippl defines a composite application as
the combination of functionality from multiple applications and systems
into a single interface in which the source and underlying
Ben Collier wrote:
Hi
Reading the web site I notice that there was an MP3 player device?
Couple of questions:
1) What happened to it?
Yes, there was a kind of mp3 jukebox, where VOS was used to manage the
playlist. The core VOS library has gone through a couple of
reimplementations
Peter Amstutz wrote:
On Thu, Nov 30, 2006 at 07:36:54PM -0700, S Mattison wrote:
What I have, basically, is a design document,
I'd be interested to see your ideas in more detail also (did I miss an
email message somewhere?), to see what kinds of key features and
abilities it's going after.
S Mattison wrote:
Personally, I think unless Terangreal is written so that content is
dynamically polled from XML documents, it'd be difficult for the average
layperson to write modifications... (Unless it's already like that and I
didn't read the manual close enough. I'll go back and read it
ONe desirable feature we might want to plan for is the ability to
suspend or pause a world when not in use, but then resume at the correct
animation state when neccesary.
I need to re-read this braindump and the email threads; but how feasible
do you think animation pause/resume is (even for
Karsten Otto wrote:
VOS has something similar, although this mechanism is rarely used at
the moment. You can log in to a site to get an identity, and
certain vobjects may have access control lists that refer to known
identities.
I.e., your overlays seem to be more like capabilities,
How is this different than the way things currently are?
Are you proposing to require that all objects except one special root
have at least one parent? Or just to encourage that practice for most
objects?
Reed
Peter Amstutz wrote:
I just wanted to float another idea for a change in s4 to
S Mattison wrote:
an area of interest view is a subset of all the avatars in the entire
world
What does 'area of interest' mean? Why are you interested in certain
avatars?
SELECT * from `avatars` where `area` = 'interesting';
Area of interest (AOI) means a spatial region, defined either by
Peter Amstutz wrote:
On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 07:23:05AM -0500, Reed Hedges wrote:
How is this different than the way things currently are?
It's not, except that s5 uses 32 bit identifiers as the canonical name
of a vobject rather than arbitrary strings.
Are you proposing to require
On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 02:34:06PM +0100, swe wrote:
Its nice that one can use blender to convert models, but thats another
barrier to download, keeping people from attending.
It's much easier to develop a world in a modeling program than by hand.
Hacking a XOD file (or a VRML) file can only
Karsten and Chris are both right and have insightful comments.
There's no real computational or memory restriction on the size of a
volume of space *as a volume of space* Chris is talking about the
representation of coordinates.
[[I.e. the only reason that a 1x1x1 kilometer space is
chris wrote:
Consider the case when a military simulation
is used to generate images that they expect a sensor should see.
These images are compared to ground truth images and the result is
used to calibrate a sensor - which is then used in a craft or weapon.
If there is unknown positional
Benjamin Mesing wrote:
Question: will the two images of the two experiments show box2 in the
same rest position relative to box1?
Why don't we consider floating point precision issues as computers
equivalent to Heisenbergs uncertainty principle?
Well, OK not to be pedantic or anything :)
On Sat, Feb 03, 2007 at 05:10:48PM -0500, Peter Amstutz wrote:
Meshes and Effects
Forgot Billboards I think.
(Also terrain?)
The system shall support geometric primitives: cube, cylinder,
cone, sphere.
The system shall support Lindin Labs prims.
In what manner? I.e. by
S Mattison wrote:
What do you think Ter'Angreal would benefit the most from?
Here's my ranking:
(5) A- A name change. (Interreality, VOS, TerAngreal, what is what!)
(3) B- A new UI. (Get rid of the menu bar, make the status bar smaller,
etc. Specify.)
(1) C- A wider variety of worlds.
(2)
Peter Amstutz wrote:
Uh oh. Blame Reed. And the fact that I haven't actually built VOS on
Windows for a while... That particular file was just added recently. I
need to set up a dedicated Windows box for development so I don't have
to reboot my main machine (which is Linux). Perhaps I
I've been trying to learn more about OpenID. So far I don't really see
the point beyond just making it easier to log in to various web sites--
that is I haven't yet seen any utility to using it as an authentication
option in VOS.
What do you think?
Reed
Ken Taylor wrote:
dateformatfilter.cc: In member function `void DateFormatter::reformat()':
dateformatfilter.cc:107: error: `localtime_r' undeclared (first use this
function)
dateformatfilter.cc:107: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only
once for each function it appears in.)
I encountered a problem in S4 just now: if you send a message to an
object for which there is no handler registered, it basically ignores
it. If the sender happens to be waiting for a reply,
then it has to wait for the full timeout.
However, we have a fairly well defined way of replying to
One thing that we need to do is make some better demo worlds for
Interreality/3D. Let's brainstorm some ideas; you can post your ideas
here or on the wiki:
http://interreality.org/cgi-bin/moinwiki/moin.cgi/IdeasForCool3dWorlds
At this stage, we don't neccesarily need extraordinary graphics
Lalo Martins wrote:
Conversely, on Linux, I have long wanted to have d-bus bindings, which
would achieve more or less the same effect. That is something that
probably will be in s5 out of the box -- you add a site extension
(assuming site extensions exist in s5; or whatever is the equivalent
On Sun, Feb 25, 2007 at 10:53:16PM -0500, Peter Amstutz wrote:
Yea, that's reasonable. It should be a core:error method though, and
you'll want to come up with an error code and maybe raise an exception
on the caller.
Yes, I'll have it throw an exception. RemoteError I think. What should
-0500, Reed Hedges wrote:
Lalo Martins wrote:
Conversely, on Linux, I have long wanted to have d-bus bindings, which
would achieve more or less the same effect. That is something that
probably will be in s5 out of the box -- you add a site extension
(assuming site extensions exist
Rob Meyers wrote:
I used to play Hero Quest! That game was great. I still have a boxful
of plastic orcs lying around here somewhere...
Yeah, HeroQuest, I thought if I made a demo boardgame it better be something
that's actually fun to play. Chess didn't cut it. You just sent out a
Ken Taylor wrote:
Peter Amstutz wrote:
Since VOS was originally conceived as a peer-to-peer system, we had this
idea that we could do client-based physics, but that idea quickly breaks
down when you have more than one client applying force to a single
object. So it will probably end up being
On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 10:14:51PM +0100, Benjamin Mesing wrote:
On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 11:03 -0500, Peter Amstutz wrote:
On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 09:03:44AM -0500, Reed Hedges wrote:
Each object should be internally responsible for deciding how it
responds to physical forces (messages
,
Karsten Otto
Am 28.02.2007 um 08:32 schrieb Ken Taylor:
Peter Amstutz wrote:
On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 10:14:51PM +0100, Benjamin Mesing wrote:
On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 11:03 -0500, Peter Amstutz wrote:
On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 09:03:44AM -0500, Reed Hedges wrote:
Each object should
Reed Hedges wrote:
One thing that we need to do is make some better demo worlds for
Interreality/3D. Let's brainstorm some ideas; you can post your ideas
here or on the wiki:
Here's what we have so far. See the Wiki for more discussion, summaries
of requirements, etc.
http
Lalo Martins wrote:
But that's more or less what we're talking about, at least for some of
those cases if not all. A properly 3d IM app using libgaim wouldn't be
too hard, for example.
This is basically what the IRC bridge does, except it doesn't create any
graphical object to represent
Reed Hedges wrote:
OK, cool. We have needed that kind of thing for a long time. We had a
simple way of doing this called OTD (object type definition) a while
ago, but then all the code change and all the OTDs went out of date :)
http://interreality.org/wiki/ObjectTypeDefinitions
http
chris wrote:
Lauren,
you were clear enough - I was just reinterpreting a bit because I don't
think I have seen
such a thing for x3d. But there are some potential candidates as a starting
point, such as vos, vrspace or deepmatrix, to
perhaps link with an X3D browser. I just don't know
For one thing, apparently you can't do this:
class Base {
public:
virtual void pure() = 0;
templateclass T register() {
VobjectBase::registerHandlerT(message, handler);
}
void handler(Message *m) {
...
}
};
class VirtualDerived : public virtual Base {
public:
Peter Amstutz wrote:
No, and it shouldn't do that -- the goal is to have the XML DOM
structure reflect the VOS structure in a meaningful way. If you spread
essential information for a single vobject all over the document such
that it requires that you must process the entire document
Peter Amstutz wrote:
On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 06:15:39PM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote:
The reason I ask is that I want to load some 3D objects from a COD file,
but then insert some non-3d children into one of those objects, and
extend its types. This is the kind of thing that VOS is all about
Peter Amstutz wrote:
Well, the idea was more to support the ability to import other file
formats (X3D comes to mind, although it's maybe not a good example since
it's really an example of how not to design an XML schema) using a
straightforward XSLT transform. Of course, we haven't yet
Len Bullard wrote:
I will move on to X3D because eventually I will need some
of the new features like Inlines with interfaces and bits like the Keyboard
Sensor, the upcoming Network Sensor and the physics engine, or the
Nice-to-Haves like the Boolean Sequencer that I can replicate in script
Another thought: does your derived class *have* to inherit Base virtually?
Yes, basically. Well, in one case it doesn't and calling the method in
the base class to register the handler works. In another case it has to
be virtual.
Maybe I can find a way to reorganize things to avoid it.
Ken Taylor wrote:
Cool! I was actually thinking the other day that being able to select and
inspect objects in Ter'Angreal would be useful and not super-difficult to
implement on the current architecture. I like the ui:actions object as a
sort of scripting approximation, though i'm assuming it
We don't know what our niche is yet. We have one main domain (3D)
and a secondary domain (Web) but there might even be others.
Actually when we first began this several years ago, we knew someone
who knew someone intersted in building factory tracking systems, though
we ended up not really
Ken Taylor wrote:
Peter Amstutz wrote:
1. Memory footprint
The current s4 design has a lot of per-vobject overhead, leading to a
significant memory footprint. The development version improves on this
a bit, but the honest truth is that the implementation was not written
with memory
---BeginMessage---
Folks,
We've been up to something over here - thought I would tell you about it
before you heard it on the street.
Media Machines has been developing a multi-user server based on a new
protocol that we intend to put out into the open. We have dubbed it Simple
Wide Area
different protocols. Not sure yet how to bridge to completely different
multiuser 3D systems but at some point we might see if it's possible.
Reed
Reed Hedges wrote:
Subject:
[www-vrml] Flux Worlds Server Announcement
Karsten Otto wrote:
Interestingly, while it has buttons that trigger actions, I mainly
used them as a quick way to arrange keyboard shortcuts during normal
gameplay. The only time I ever used the interface in a traditional
way was for complex actions like trading items. Actually this is
Peter Amstutz wrote:
Whenever I try to set up a VOS build environment on Windows, I get a
sharp, throbbing headache and a strong urge to throw my chair out the
window. It's difficult to understate just how big of a maintainance
hassle the current build system is on Windows (whether Cygwin,
Ken Taylor wrote:
the fact that you guys seem to be allergic to comments doesn't
help either ;) (i jest! i jest ... sorta)
Just Pete.
But he wrote most of the code.
Reed
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Peter Amstutz wrote:
On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 05:16:16PM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote:
There's also something called Flow-Based Programming that is similar. In
some ways it's closer to VOS since Actors are, I think, more like method
handlers (in VOS terminology).
I don't agree. Flow-based
So messages between local objects will be serialized and passed like
remote messages, rather than being method calls? Is that overhead a
concern?
If so, maybe an optimization would be to have a message format that just
packs native machine format arguments into the message in the same order
Peter Amstutz wrote:
On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 08:16:59AM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote:
So messages between local objects will be serialized and passed like
remote messages, rather than being method calls? Is that overhead a
concern?
It is a concern, although I'm don't think I would call
On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 10:29:35PM -0400, Peter Amstutz wrote:
On Thu, Apr 12, 2007 at 09:26:09PM -0400, Reed Hedges wrote:
* Change mouse cursor to reflect what clicking will do (i.e.
differentiate between mouselook/move modes; change when over a hypercard
or clickable)
Yea
Is anyone here familiar with Javascript much?
I'm wondering what kind of networking tools are available from
Javascript. I've been reading about a thing some people call Comet,
(http://alex.dojotoolkit.org/?p=545) which basically a publish/push
model for the server to update pages live. It
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