patrick_powers
Sun, 08 Aug 2010 23:17:40 -0700
Thanks Roger for that very clear summary of the problem of dial theft that we see so often in the UK. There are plenty of dials in the public domain in the UK and elsewhere that are not vulnerable and it is to Fabio's credit that these can now be identified to a wider audience via the Sundial Atlas. Indeed the Sundial Atlas could be a very valuable tool in understanding some of the enigmas of dialling like the use and prevalence of mass dials in Europe.
However the position with some dials is quite different and theft, even from Heritage sites where security is strong, is a serious problem. The BSS's Registrar John Foad maintains a list of dials that are known or strongly believed to have been, stolen. It currently extends to no fewer than 15 pages. The BSS Register of dials includes both mention and details of many of these valuable and vulnerable dials only because dial owners have been assured that the Society will not publish the existence of their dial to any other than to its membership and to the Heritage Organisations. In this way the full corpus of knowledge of UK and Irish dialling is maintained and even extended. If rare and valuable dials, particularly those in private or church ownership, are to be publicised on the internet then their owners will not be able to insure them and as a result owners will increasingly prevent anyone, even genuine researchers, from viewing their dials. Not only that but where a theft can be linked back to inclusion in an Internet Atlas a case will arise in law for compensation. This is a huge problem in the UK and I hope that Fabio will include some much needed advice on the pages of the Sundial Atlas site to those who may be thinking of recording any dial that is vulnerable to theft or vandalism. Additionally I would hope that the entries in the Sundial Atlas can be monitored regularly to remove or modify entries that fall clearly into that category. Otherwise the Sundial Atlas faces being seen as a thieves' catalogue and none of us would want that. Regards Patrick Powers -----Original Message----- From: Roger Bailey <rtbai...@telus.net> To: Fabio <fabio.sav...@nonvedolora.it>; sundial <sund...@rrz.uni-koeln.de> Sent: Mon, Aug 9, 2010 12:58 am Subject: Re: Re sundial atlas There are significant cultural difference in these notes on the sundial atlas. In Italy, feral cats eat pasta, but not the cats in the UK. The cultures are different in many ways. In Italy and most of continental Europe, the dominant sundial type is the vertical declining dial on a building. In the UK the brass/bronze sundial in a garden or churchyard dominates. Many historic sundials have been stolen in the UK to sell to collectors in America or scrap dealers for their copper content. Few dials on the continent are at risk in the same way. We need to recognize the specific risks giving the precise location of any valuable sundial. I have enjoyed viewing an old bronze horizontal sundial in a churchyard in the English Lakes district dedicated to Wordsworth. I hope it is still there as it is at risk. I have also enjoyed viewing the equatorial ring and astronomical quadrant on Santa Marie Novella in Florence, placed by Egnatio Danti in 1574, to determine the exact value of the obliquity. Both are important in many ways but the English dial is more at risk. Neither are yet in the sundial atlas. I agree with the concerns expressed by John. When marking a dial on the sundial atlas or elsewhere, consider first is the dial worth noting and second, what are the risks of showing its precise location. Regards, Roger Bailey >From North America where we have very few heritage sundials at risk . -------------------------------------------------- From: "Fabio" <fabio.sav...@nonvedolora.it> Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 3:54 PM To: <sund...@rrz.uni-koeln.de> Subject: Re sundial atlas > Dear John > > It looks like a call not to use Sundial Atlas rather than to appreciate > its popular development useful to everyone. > I would remind that: > > - in SA you can indicate a sundial on the map in the square of the nearest > city, and not exactly where it is, indicating the rightness of the > position as 50m, 500m, 5km (about 3 miles) or more then 5km, and without > revealing the exact location, but still allowing to obtain info on the > sundial. > > - the publication of the photo of a sundial is the best burglar alarm, > since it is assumed that a sundial can work only when exposed to the Sun, > where everyone could recognize it if its picture is known. > I would not recognize a stolen sundial even I saw it because I don't know > the photos of the stolen sundials. > (on SA a sundial may be classified as 'stolen') > > - it is not possible to know who will read the catalogs with censuses of > the sundials which are periodically published, therefore is not internet > to be dangerous. You should also advise not to publish catalogs or books > on sundials. > > - on the web there are now thousands of photo of sundials posted on social > networks by photographers or simply curious. I think it is better to > handle these pictures on a site where they also assume gnomonic > significance and where the management of the diallist can handle all info. > > - if a sundial is in a square it is already public. Probably it also is in > the website of the city as a tourist attraction, or in the website of the > restaurant or hotel beside (that may have 'sundial' in their name), or in > the website of a diallist. > > - the danger, on the contrary, is to keep the data in the dark of a drawer > where nobody can consult them unless one decides to sell them, by > publishing a book. On SA it will be possible to advertise these books > because I think one can appreciate all the different ways to consult these > data. > > - I know where is the Monna Lisa, probabily thieves also know where it is, > it surely must be protected but no one thinks to hide where it is. > > My English is not sophisticated, I hope to have not created > misunderstandings but I think that the problem of thefts is not SA. > I share this problem with you and I accept suggestions if you have any, > but it would be more evident if there were UK sundials on SA. More than > one at least, i think. > > Best regards, Fabio Savian > > > --------------------------------------------------- > https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial > --------------------------------------------------- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
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