?
You told us that we could come out and make homes if we planted some
trees. We made
a little place and tilled the ground. We grew enough to keep our family
going, raised a few
chickens, a cow or two, and few horses to carry us to church on the day
we all rested. A town
grew a little way from us and they wanted a few things we had around the
place, so we traded
with them from time to time. The town grew as our family did, we all
chipped in and built the
school, built a new church and when we were less busy, run a board
across the road from here to
town, just to take the ruts out. Just helping the neighbors, you know.
Things were nice, had all
we needed, bartered for a few parts and maybe a do-dad for the lady-folk
once in a while. The
towns people wanted more things from the farm so we grew more, broke out
more land and
started to hire a few workers from the town. The towns took some of our
kids with the offer of
milk and honey. Later, our kids went into battle in places a few of our
kin lived still, but ideas
go beyond family and we had to do what was right. The ones that came
back were glad to see the
farm and glad to raise their families there. The times grew hard. It
took all to keep what we
had. No problem getting workers, six came by everyday looking for work,
none went hungry if
we had work or not. Sometimes we were getting a little shy at the
table, but those were our
neighbors who lost everything and if they could, done the same. The
Government said we were
farming wrong when a big wind came and some of the things they said even
worked. Times got
a little better, just before the kids went into battle again. It seems,
it was the thing to do, die for
your country. We planted more, raised more stock to support our boys
over there and when they
returned they needed even more. Making money at farming was a new thing
to us, never thought
of it as a business. Government people came far and wide to tell us how
to farm, how to grow
more grain, raise more cattle. They gave money to collages to figure
how to do it and sometimes
it didn't hurt none to try. We had to try this machine and put this
spray on, they said, to get
better crops. We had our ups and downs over the years and some of the
kids would go. The
farm keeps us well, then they said, we were growing too much and to cut
back. The government
started passing around money not to farm a portion or to try a different
way. Then their helping
became demands on how many acres you will farm and what you could put on
it. Hard to keep
the family on the farm with a regulated income, so now there are just a
few of us, just trying to
do what is right. We can't go back to the way we started because
somewhere along the line we
are getting taxed on this land we have. We have to pay for things we
didn't need to start with.
We got grain taxes for people to find markets for us. We have fees for
things we never use to do
like putting sprays to protect the crops from bugs or weeds. They say
we have to spray certain
weeds, then say we our killing the critters in the wild by doing so.
They say we are farming to
close too the creek, which never was a creek at the start, until they
said to farm on the contour.
Then they say the water runs too hot in the summer. There never use to
be any water in it at all
in the summer. They say there are not enough natural trees lining the
creek. There weren't
more than two trees between here and the river when we got here. The
new way of farming is
this no till. No Till? Even the people more native than we poked holes
in the ground to get the
seed in. The ground needs to be in a more natural state, get that good
earthy smell back, it
wasn't about ten years ago we lost the smell from doing what they said
to start with. They say
they want to protect the small farmer, then they run us out of
business. We can't backup to
raising just enough for ourselves, somehow we have to give the bank some
money, somehow
give the local, state, and federal governments some money. Have to buy
food we do not raise for
ourselves, buy gizmos to tell us what the world market is. Somehow
figure a way to farm
without using fuel, pesticides, fertilizer, raising dust or smoke, look
like we are running over a
wet spot or make a trickle run down from the field to the man-made
creek, kill weeds humanely,
plant and harvest without disturbing the soil, the mice, the birds,
coyotes or disturb any ones'
sleep within ten miles. All we wanted to do is raise a family. True
our hours are cut back and
we can get things done faster. We can get in at dark and still have
enough energy to eat before
going to bed. We have time to talk to the neighbors and shake our
heads. We have time to
figure what we are going to do when they finish us off and will have to
move next to you. We
have time to think what it would be like working next to people who
complain about working
eight hours a day for pay three times at what our gross income is. Time
to think what it would
be like to have a break and lunch in the first third of the day. It
would be kind of nice getting
home in time to work another six or eight hours playing around before
bed. It would kind of
nice using all the things we had to learn about the law, marketing,
world trade, chemicals,
welding, mechanics, politics, machining and about two dozen other
things. Gosh, it does seem
to be a lot of trouble for just trying to make home where many city
folks want to buy into. All
well, see you soon.
jmwelter wrote:
>The problem is that the bankers convince the farmers that they need
>the most modern equipment, and operating practices to compete, and
>any farmer who has debt will tell you that it is not fun... In my own
>experience, I can tell you that if a farmer wants to make money, he
>must not conform to what the bankers and universities tell him to do
>to make money, but see for himself what the animals and soil are
>telling him. A farmer who abuses his animals will not make any money
>that is obvious... but if a farmer feeds his animals high protein,
>high corn, low forage diets, in essence he's doing the "right thing"
>according to the university and banker to get the high yield in milk,
>or meat, but the animal isn't designed to eat that diet, it will get
>sick, and "burnout" so why isn't this considered abuse?
>
>Notice the dairy farms in California where they feed the hell out of
>the animals, give them all the modern drugs and hormone treatments,
>then wonder why they are culling out animals after only one year of
>milking, creating a huge shortage of youngstock (if the cows don't
>have calves, where do new cows come from?) It has been proven that a
>cow will give more milk with less inputs as it gets older and has
>more calves. But it is easier, with super large herds (and seems to
>be the general philosophy with large businesses) to just get what you
>can now and who cares if the animal's immune system goes to hell, and
>whether it has a heart and liver 4 times the size it should be?
>That's the problem with modern agriculture! Man wants it now... and
>will do anything to get it.
>
>To take care of your animals, and not listen when the
>banker/university study says you have to expand will be the best way
>to go because healthy animals will give you healthy milk/meat, and
>they will also reproduce healthily! More cows= more money, and if
>you can do this with less inputs, then you make money (but the key is
>that you have to resist the urge to borrow money and get in debt
>because once you're in debt, the tendency is to borrow more to get
>out of debt and you just get deeper.
>
>I ask you: Look for a farmer who is not in debt and tell me if he
>isn't making money (sure not millions, but he's making a living).
>
>JEFF
>
>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>Harmon
>>
>>I have always believed that studies show the politics of the
>>
>payee. In my world anyways, small farmers are at a very large
>disadvange. Many years ago I was a dairy farmer. I started out with
>20 cows. Went good for a few years, then had to buy 10 more cows,
>then 10 more and then 10 more. Finally said the hell with it when
>Reagon got to be president and sold them all.
>
>>Your study was done by someone who was paid to do it. Small
>>
>farmers are selling out by droves now. They simply can't do it with
>the prices and costs the way they are. All the studies in the world
>won't save all the guys in the High Plains Journal who are
>advertizing their farm sales. I have read them as well, I just know
>better from experience of living it.
>
>>Regards
>>George
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Harmon Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Seems like there was a post here just awhile back on a study
>>>
>done which showed big farms (and they weren't
>
>>>talking about organic) just weren't able to make it as well as
>>>
>smaller farms, and IIRC, it was around the 200
>
>>>acre point where things started going down. So sell some land, buy
>>>
>some cows and pigs and chickens and
>
>>>diversify, get rid of the chemicals and giant (ultra-expensive)
>>>
>machinery. You'll make just as much money, live
>
>>>longer, and be happier. Don't sell the corn, feed it to the pigs,
>>>
>or make ethanol, or -- whatever. It's a
>
>>>ridiculous idea to farm corn when corn is the cheapest heating
>>>
>fuel on the market.
>
>>> Sorry, George, I just don't have much sympathy for the American
>>>
>farmer, for the most part. I think if we can
>
>>>get the gov't to stop all the crop subsidies and other forms of
>>>
>corporate welfare, the organic/chemical
>
>>>arguement would end pretty quickly. Farmers have been conned,
>>>
>swindled, bamboozled, by the banks, the chemical
>
>>>companies, ag agents, and ag schools (who all work for chemical
>>>
>companies essentially).
>
>>> Hey, I saw the same thing happening in the logging industry --
>>>
>guys got conned into buying all that new fancy
>
>>>equipment then lost their shirt when NAFTA came along. The banker
>>>
>tried to talk me into it -- I didn't even ask
>
>>>for a loan, he approached me. I just kept logging with my old
>>>
>crawler, and when the crunch came I just sold it
>
>>>all and went back to school. I really like the way the Amish do
>>>
>it -- no debt. And they definitely do make
>
>>>money, pay cash for their farms.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 04:50:56PM -0600, George & Lola Wesel
>>>
>wrote:
>
>>>>I would say that is a very fair question. If it was possible I
>>>>
>would.
>
>>>>I know several organic farmer and they don't laugh all the way
>>>>
>to the
>
>>>>bank. That is just an image they would like everybody to
>>>>
>believe. In
>
>>>>order to reach the production goals required by today financial
>>>>
>needs,
>
>>>>organic don't cut it. Not even close. Zero Input Sustainable
>>>>Agriculture (name used by the US government) is just a dream of
>>>>
>the
>
>>>>extreme left wing enviromentalist. Looks good, sounds good but
>>>>
>not
>
>>>>feastable. You need to draw a clear line between those that do
>>>>
>organic
>
>>>>farming with an acre or so and those who farm on the x,000 acres
>>>>
>plus.
>
>>>>To grow a couple of hundred corn plants on 1/2 acre and then
>>>>
>petal the
>
>>>>roasting ears to people who you meet on the street is probably
>>>>
>very
>
>>>>profitable but your going to need a job on the side. With a
>>>>
>27,000
>
>>>>population per acre and 1000 acres of corn that's 27,000,000
>>>>
>roasting
>
>>>>ears. This is but one big problem. The places that broker
>>>>
>organic food
>
>>>>are not capable of handling large volume. The market just isn't
>>>>
>their yet.
>
>>>>Do you have a clue how much manure it takes to equal 250 pounds
>>>>
>of NH3.
>
>>>>The average amount of nirtrogen put on an acre of irrigated corn
>>>>
>here in
>
>>>>KS. Or how many cows it would take to produce enough manure to
>>>>
>fertilize
>
>>>>1000 acres of irrigated corn. The reason I say irrigated is that
>>>>
>dryland
>
>>>>corn here in KS is a "iffy" crop at best. This doesn't even
>>>>
>touch on the
>
>>>>labor required to load, haul, and spread the manure or the costs
>>>>involved. To use manure would not only be labor intensely, but
>>>>
>terribly
>
>>>>costly as well. I would lose my butt big time to use all
>>>>
>manure. They
>
>>>>say rotate your crops. Yes, alfalfa does put a little nitrogen
>>>>
>into the
>
>>>>soil. But not nearly enough to grow 200 bu per acre corn. I do
>>>>
>rotate
>
>>>>my crops, especially my dryland crops but I do rotate my
>>>>
>irrigated as
>
>>>>well. To keep the chemical costs to a minmium. On a very small
>>>>
>farm, an
>
>>>>acre or so, organic is the only way to go. Their are organic
>>>>
>farms up
>
>>>>to 100 acres or so. But their not profitable, just diehard,
>>>>
>stubborn
>
>>>>"Gonna do it organic" types. They would do it even if they were
>>>>starving. If I can't produce in the 175 and up range then I
>>>>
>won't be
>
>>>>here next year. Someone else will be farming my farm and he
>>>>
>won't be
>
>>>>organic.
>>>>
>>>>For chemicals their is no organic replacement. They simplely
>>>>
>let the
>
>>>>bugs chow down. Diease is uncontrollable except by rotation. In
>>>>
>bad
>
>>>>years like we had last year they don't raise a crop. If organic
>>>>
>was
>
>>>>suddenly required by all governments in this world. No one
>>>>
>would be
>
>>>>able to buy enough food to live on. It would simpley be a
>>>>
>severe food
>
>>>>shortage. As long as organic has conventional farmer to produce
>>>>
>for the
>
>>>>masses then they can produce for the few (and growing) who buy
>>>>
>organic
>
>>>>only. If everybody tried to buy organic only, their would be one
>>>>
>hell of
>
>>>>a long line everywhere they sell food.
>>>>
>>>>The simple fact is, organic is not ready to replace conventional
>>>>farming. Except on a small and local scale.
>>>>
>>>>One last comparision. I'm sure you don't like to buy gasoline
>>>>
>for your
>
>>>>car or truck, whatever. I'm sure you don't like to buy tires,
>>>>
>oil, and
>
>>>>repairs or that you don't like the idea of being a part of the
>>>>
>pollution
>
>>>>that is generated in the world every day. So why don't you walk
>>>>
>to work
>
>>>>everyday. I'm sure their is people out their who do, but is it
>>>>feastable for everybody to walk. Cut down on the gas
>>>>
>comsumption of the
>
>>>>world, cut down on air pollution and get a lot of good exercise
>>>>
>in
>
>>>>addition but it's just not workable for the vast majority. So it
>>>>
>is with
>
>>>>American agriculture. Organic farming cannot feed the world. For
>>>>
>me to
>
>>>>switch would create such a severe income loss that it is not
>>>>
>even a
>
>>>>remote option. Conventional ag needs the ag chemicals to produce
>>>>
>the
>
>>>>crop big enough to pay the bills by as few people (per farm) as
>>>>
>possible
>
>>>>To close, I'm sure their are places in the world where organic
>>>>
>farming
>
>>>>on a larger scale than I am portraying here is possible, but
>>>>
>they are
>
>>>>labor intensive. They just are not possible on a large scale and
>>>>
>today's
>
>>>>agriculture is growing larger and larger on that scale. It has
>>>>
>to, our
>
>>>>fixed costs go up every year and the only way to cope is to get
>>>>
>bigger.
>
>>>> It is a vicious circle. Remember that question about "How many
>>>>
>cows
>
>>>>would it take to fertilize 1000 acres of corn" How many ton of
>>>>
>poop can
>
>>>>you scope in a day? While your scoping poop, who's going to be
>>>>
>pinching
>
>>>>bugs?
>>>>
>>>>I hope I didn't bore you
>>>>George
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> So why don't you? There's plenty of totally organic
>>>>>
>farmers who are
>
>>>>>laughing all the way to the bank. You
>>>>>too can end your chemical dependancy -- "Just say NO!"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>Harmon Seaver
>>>>>CyberShamanix
>>>>>http://www.cybershamanix.com
>>>>>
>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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>>>--
>>>Harmon Seaver
>>>CyberShamanix
>>>http://www.cybershamanix.com
>>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>
>>
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