biofuel  

Re: [Biofuel] more goofy questions

Thomas Kelly
Wed, 31 May 2006 05:21:35 -0700

Jason & Katie,
     I'm not sure what you mean when you say "clean the glycerine for 
compost".
     Many people compost the glycerine cocktail w/o any treatment. I think 
this is best done when KOH is used as the caustic rather than NaOH.
      I do separate the glycerine because I produce quite  a bit of BD these 
days. I'm concerned about pouring Kilo after Kilo of  caustic, of which 70%, 
by weight, is Potassium. Sure it's a valuable soil nutrient, but I'd like to 
control how much is added to my garden ....  which has done just fine on 
pre-BD compost. I also am attempting to recover methanol and have uses for 
the other components of the mix.

     I used hydrochloric acid (sold in hardware stores as "muriatic acid") 
before I was able to locate phosphoric.
I did a few small test batches and got good separation.
 The difference will be the type of mineral "salt" that will precipitate 
out.
Ex:
Hydrochloric Acid  + Lye (NaOH) forms table salt and water
HCl   +   NaOH   ---->   NaCL (table salt)  + H2O
The table salt is not especially valuable; throw it out?

    The salt falls to the bottom and you get FFAs forming a layer on top and 
the crude glycerine (+  most of the excess methanol) forming a bottom layer. 
The FFAs and the glycerine/methanol are composed of Cs, Hs, and Os.
They will decompose into CO2 and H2O. They supply nothing in the way of soil 
nutrients, but I have found that
they appear to accelerate decomposition within a compost pile   .......  not 
only a safe way to dispose of the mix, but some benefit to be gotten.

KOH (during processing) and H3PO4 (split)
is preferred because the salt produced is Potassium Phosphate  ..... 
valuable as fertilizer.

     The point is that different acids can be used to split the cocktail 
into FFAs and crude glycerine w. methanol. The
difference is in the salt (and its value) that is produced.

     Vinegar is an organic acid, which tend to be weak acids. It would take 
a lot of vinegar to split the cocktail.
Probably more expensive than hydrochloric and I don't see that the salt 
produced would have more value.

***By value I don't mean financial, as in sell for profit. I
dissolve some of the potassium phosphate produced by the split in water and 
add it to my compost piles. It has value as in  ...  can be put to good use.

       Sorry to get so wordy, but your "goofy question" is part of a subject 
that is of great interest to me.
       The splitting of the cocktail may not have the financial payoff that 
brewing BD does, but the feeling of putting to good use what others have 
called "waste products"  is akin to the feeling I get when I fill the 
tank(s) w. BD I brewed at home.
                        Best of luck to you,
                                         Tom

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jason& Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:13 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] more goofy questions


> what other, more available acids can be used in place of phosphoric to 
> clean
> glycerine for compost? i have been reading for three hours, and i cant 
> find
> any experiments or documentation. am i not looking in the right places? 
> has
> anyone tried using vinegar? this is really bothering me. any ideas?
>
>
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