Keith Addison
Sat, 08 Jul 2006 20:56:06 -0700
>what if you dont use it in the final separation of glyc/ffa? wouldnt it be >faster to spin out the chunks and as much water as possible after collection >and before storage of WVO? it wouldnt be a cleaning per se, just another >step of preparation. maybe not any real use for a 20 gallon batch setup but >if you were collecting large amounts of WVO for a coop and needed to >maximize storage it would be handy.
What for Jason? Superfluous. Use good oil and settle it. Best Keith >Jason >ICQ#: 154998177 >MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 7:33 PM >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Gov Auction for pressure filter > > >Hello Bud, Aaron > > >Aaron, My name is Bud and I'm new to this forum so I hope you folks > >can give a little slack if I get out of line. > >I have been using WVO for some time and had a lot of problems > >getting all of the junk out, but water was the biggest trouble. I > >tried filters, heating and settling and re-filtering with very > >little sucess. One day I was talking to a friend and he kept saying > >"centrifuge". So I did some reseach, asked a lot of question, some > >real deep thinking and desided to build a small centrifuge and > >then all of the problem were gone. Now it's just a one function > >process. All that is needed is to use a fine kitchen screen as I > >pour the oil into the machine, warm it up a little and the > >centrifuge does the rest. It comes out almost as clean as new. I > >have been using my centrifuged oil for more than 10,000 miles and > >have yet to change my fuel filter. Therefore I don't think filtering > >is not the answer. > >No, but neither is a centrifuge, much. IMHO they're both answers to >the wrong question, or at least to an incomplete question, based on >the idea that suspended particles and water are the only aspects of >fuel quality. > >Most of the Straight Vegetable Oil world seems to have a strange idea >of fuel quality control - filter, filter, filter. Same with a >centrifuge - basically, filter it better. Often they filter it down >to 0.5 microns, though the specified final fuel filter might be only >10 microns. > >But what about the contaminants that filtering won't remove? > >For instance what's the acid value of your oil, Bud? Before and after >centrifuging? > >A lot of SVO people go for SVO instead of biodiesel in the first >place because they don't want to learn how to titrate the oil (and to >avoid "all those poisonous chemicals"). But if you're going to have >an idea of the quality of the waste oil you're using as fuel you have >to titrate it anyway. > >The only existing quality standard for SVO is the German Quality >Standard for Rapeseed Oil as a Fuel (RK-Qualitätsstandard), which >specifies an Acid Value of 2.0 mg KOH/g. This is the Free Fatty Acid >(FFA) content. Elsbett Technologie says it can affect the lube oil, >the Fuel Injection Equipment Manufacturers (Delphi, Stanadyne, Denso, >Bosch) say FFA corrodes fuel injection equipment and leaves sediments >on parts. > >"An examination of the defective sections found substantial surface >erosion of the hardened steel high pressure parts, which are not >acid-proof." The problem was traced to a supply of soy oil which was >not the usual food-grade oil and had a high acid content. -- BioCar >(German page): >http://biocar.de/info/warnung1.htm > >FFA isn't removed by filtering, I doubt it will all be removed by >centrifuge. > >The way to tell how much FFA your oil contains is to titrate it. > > >New, unused SVO is the best oil to use. See German PPO fuel > >standard: "Quality Standard for Rapeseed Oil as a Fuel". > > > >Good quality WVO can be used (though see kit supplier's warranty). > > > >Oil quality of WVO is best checked with the titration test used in > >making biodiesel to determine the Free Fatty Acid (FFA) content of > >the oil. The lower the titration result the better the quality. > > > >It's often said that oil titrating at more than 3.5 ml 0.1% NaOH > >solution should be processed into biodiesel rather than used with a > >Straight Vegetable Oil system. More than that and the oil will be > >too acidic and will probably contain water, both of which can damage > >the fuel system, and the water might not be easy to boil off. > > > >We think a limit of 3.5 ml of NaOH solution is too high, we set it > >lower, at 2.0 ml at the most. After all, there are standards for > >diesel fuel and for biodiesel fuel, as there should be, but not for > >SVO -- except for the German PPO fuel standard, which excludes WVO > >altogether. Use high-quality oil. > > > >With experience you can tell quite a lot about the quality of oil > >from its appearance, colour and smell, but you still can't be sure. > > > >Someone we know who fitted an Elsbett single-tank SVO system to his > >VW Golf was careful to use oil only from the works cafetaria at his > >job, where the manager had assured him it was pure, high-quality > >vegetable oil. We weren't so sure so we titrated it for him. He was > >shocked by the result -- it titrated at 8.5 ml of NaOH solution, bad > >oil! Much too acidic to use for SVO and it had a high water content, > >difficult to remove. > > > >Don't take chances, learn to titrate your oil, and if it's too > >acidic find better-quality oil. > >-- From: Fuel quality > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#gnl > >-- From: Fuel quality >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html#gnl > >Titration: >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate > >German Quality Standard for Rapeseed Oil as a Fuel: >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svostd.html > >Fuel Injection Equipment (FIE) Manufacturers report: >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_FIEM.html > >Waste oil that titrates at 2.0 ml NaOH solution or less will contain >little or no water anyway. > >"The important thing is how well-used, or overused, the oil is. >Titration will tell you that. The higher the titration result, the >more water it's likely to contain, and the more difficult it will >probably be to remove the water." >-- From: Removing the water >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#water > >Read what list member Dale Scroggins says there about removing water, >not as simple as it sounds. > >I'm not convinced a centrifuge does such a good job anyway. People >using centrifuges with biodiesel in the US have found the fuel tested >as sub-standard. We have some lab test results of "finished" >biodiesel made here in Japan in a $70,000 commercial processor, >washed and dried, and then it was centrifuged, and samples sent to >the lab of the centrifuged stuff, but it didn't come close to >standard spec. (Our biodiesel is standard spec though.) That's about >biodiesel, but the same should apply to SVO use. > >If you use good quality waste oil there's no need to filter it, >settling works better. Re filtering vs settling, see: > >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg62219.html > >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg62233.html > >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg62260.html > >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg62294.html > >As for the 10,000 miles, that's not very much in the life of a diesel >motor. As Todd says, nothing's ever broken till it breaks. > >Best wishes > >Keith > > > > >Thanks for listening > >Buuuuud > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Aaron Wagner > >To: <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 1:13 PM > >Subject: [Biofuel] Gov Auction for pressure filter > > > >This may be good for cleaning used fryer oil. > > > >http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=897708 _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/