I think people use a variety of techniques. I have not got one of these machines but as I understand it from discussions on other lists you can use the FN key with the Number row on the keyboard to simulate a physical function key press, also you can apparently navigate to the appropriate area of the Touch Bar by feeling the number row and then lifting your finger from the number row key to the Touch Bar above.
But yes you can get spoken feedback from the Touch Bar. If you are to get a machine I would 1. Read a quite good review of the pros and cons of using the touch Bar on Apple Vis. 2. Listen to David Woodbridge's Podcast on using the Touch Bar. From memory though he does not demonstrate the Function key plus Number row workaround which I hope stil exists. For me I think there are some unresolved issues. 1. Using the Touch Bar with Windows in either VMWare Fusion or Boot Camp is apparently a non- starter. I think there were issues in using Recovery Console - for example using VO F2 F2 to bring up window chooser. The recommended workaround for Voiceover users is to have a standard USB keyboard available for use with Recovery Console. All this is second hand and not from personal experience so the situation may have changed/improved since I observed these reported issues. David Griffith. -----Original Message----- From: Dane Trethowan [mailto:grtd...@internode.on.net] Sent: 28 June 2017 16:29 To: techno-chat@techno-chat.net Subject: [Techno-Chat]: Note Takers and Laptops On the subject of Note Takers and Laptops, My next computer - if all goes well at the end of the year - will be a MacBook. I hear the MacBook has done away with the row of function keys replacing them with a touch strip so how does this go with Voiceover. I mean if you want to press a function key do you slide your finger along the strip till you hear the key you want and then double-tap? Does the bar offer any other gestures or customisations? > On 29 Jun 2017, at 1:16 am, Gordon Smith <gor...@mac-access.net> wrote: > > I can see advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. So I guess it’s > more or less horses for courses. > > Was a time in the not so very long ago that Would have said no to any Braille > note taker at all. But now, having used them extensively for quite a long > time, I’ve changed my views. Certainly see the advantage to using main stream > hardware right down the line. But I have experienced, (and that is the crux > of the matter)both approaches. As I will readily admit, I was very much in > line with the BrailleBack approach and that was an end to it. But now, well, > as I said, speaking from experience, not just hypothesis, I see some definite > merit to using accessible devices. After all, these new note takers such as > the Touch and the Polaris, like them or loathe them, can be said to be main > stream technologies in themselves. Why do I say this? Simple, that’s what > they are! They are both Google approved, they both run Android as their base > operating systems. In the case of the Polaris, just as with the Touch, I > believe you can turn off the accessible operating system by pressing the home > button three times quickly. That is a toggle, so you can enable or disable it > at will. Once disabled, the self same device will run natively in Android > mode, and you can install TalkBack and BrailleBack for use in this mode. You > just need to remember not to have them enabled at start-up or you’ll hit real > issues. > > Then again, along comes the ElBraille. A totally different approach, but > again I believe there’s much to be said for it. I am saving to buy one just > as soon as I can. > > ================================================= > > My compliments and kindest regards > Gordon Smith: > <gor...@mac-access.net> > > Accessibility & Information Technology Support Specialist.. > > Contact: > > • UK Geographic – +44(0) 1642 688095 > • UKFree Phone – 0800 8620538 > • UK Mobile – +44 (0) 7907 823971 > > • Australia Geographic – +61 38 82059300 • US Geographic – +1 646 > 9151493Mobile/S > > ———————————————————— > > > >> On 25 Jun 2017, at 18:47, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote: >> >> You're right, you're nog to get the same level of convenience using a Mobile >> device with a Braille display, you're going to get an even better level of >> convenience not to mention an even better level of flexibility. >> >> Yep, you have to download the Brailleback App from Google Play Store and >> enable that App before the Braille Display will be acknowledge. >> >> >> >> On 26/06/2017 3:36 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: >>> That is an option, yes. But you’re not going to get quite the same level of >>> convenience doing things that way. I am also given to understand, and I >>> haven’t checked this, that you need to use BrailleBack with the Polaris to >>> control and interface with a phone. With the Touch, that level of >>> connectivity is in-built to KeySoft. >>> >>> >>>> On 25 Jun 2017, at 17:30, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> And a forth choice actually, a mobile phone or tablet with a Braille >>>> display. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 26/06/2017 12:26 AM, Gordon Smith wrote: >>>>> Yes, I totally agree about keyboard. All I was pointing out was that the >>>>> option, and that’s the key word, “Option” doesn’t exist. >>>>> >>>>> That said, I do agree that the Polaris is a very nice device and has >>>>> excellent hardware specs. When it comes to note takers, however, we now >>>>> have 3 choices. There’s the HumanWare one, (which I like, and use a lot), >>>>> the Braille Sense Polaris, which I tried the other day, which I’m sure I >>>>> would come to like a lot if I had the opportunity to use it extensively, >>>>> and the ElBraille. I plan to buy an ElBraille for my business needs as >>>>> tat would be the best all-round device for me. I do feel that both Hims >>>>> and HumanWare kind of missed the boat a bit by not including an. Option >>>>> for mobile communications. That is one area which EliTech Group has hit a >>>>> winning note in my opinion. >>>>> >>>>> All that said, were there an upgrade option on my Braille Sense U2, I >>>>> would seriously consider that option. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 24 Jun 2017, at 04:05, Debbie Yuille <debbiey1...@optusnet.com.au> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> But then you would most likely have a fold down keyboard that is noisy >>>>>> like the touch's keyboard. The Polaris' keyboard is super quiet and in >>>>>> my opinion, a lot quicker to type on than using touch braille. That is >>>>>> why I prefer the Polaris. I like that we now have choice with our >>>>>> notetakers, one that's designed for touch braille and one that is >>>>>> designed for people who want a quiet and fast braille keyboard. >>>>>> >>>>>> Debbie >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Gordon Smith [mailto:gor...@mac-access.net] >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, 24 June 2017 1:42 AM >>>>>> To: Techno-Chat ... Technology Enthusiasm! >>>>>> <techno-chat@techno-chat.net> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Techno-Chat]: Braille Sense Polaris: First >>>>>> Impressions >>>>>> >>>>>> That is utterly the wrong approach. The Touch, for example, gives you >>>>>> the option. You don’t have to use the touch screen at all, but it’s >>>>>> there if you want too. The device is intended for the use of the vision >>>>>> impaired and the blind and, of course, the deaf blind. Like the Hims >>>>>> tablet, the Touch also has a vibrating motor which can be configured for >>>>>> events. And its touch screen is there for all. If you’re blind, you can >>>>>> toggle off the video output to conserve battery power, but even with the >>>>>> video disabled, you can still type on the touch screen and, optionally, >>>>>> still use gestures. >>>>>> >>>>>> So I’m sorry, but I think that Hims has made a gross error of judgement >>>>>> there. Of course, it may be that the Samsung hardware on which the >>>>>> device is based did not easily lend itself to a touch screen. I think >>>>>> it’s a dreadful shame though, as with the inclusion of a touch screen it >>>>>> would have been a truly spectacular device. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now, it is true that one can perform some touch gestures on the Braille >>>>>> display itself. So that may go some way to addressing the issue. I >>>>>> haven’t had the opportunity to try that aspect yet. But I’m sure I >>>>>> shall, and soon. But having played with the divide, in terms of its >>>>>> interface It comes a poor second in my opinion. In terms of >>>>>> specifications, it comes out the clear winner. >>>>>> >>>>>> I need it to be understood that I am totally unprejudiced with these >>>>>> comments. I am not, as some people have accused me of being recently, a >>>>>> HumanWare man through and through. I’m just trying to be objective. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 23 Jun 2017, at 10:37, Dane Trethowan <grtd...@internode.on.net> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think the absence of a touch screen on a device may very well be a >>>>>>> blessing for Hims Inc as not everyone is interested in a touch screen. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 3GB of RAM is more than enough, though some of the newer Android >>>>>>> devices have 4GB - and some 6GB - 3 is still ample, my absolute minimum >>>>>>> would be 1GB, the Neo Set Top Box I use has 2Gb and it speeds along >>>>>>> most of the time but with 1GB you do notice things slowing down, >>>>>>> another device I have - can't remember its name, its an Android Desktop >>>>>>> computer - only has 1GB. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Obviously I've not seen one of these machines but I can tell you that I >>>>>>> like stereo speakers on a device, they make the world of difference >>>>>>> even when listening to spoken word. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does the machine have any Bluetooth capabilities? It would be nice if >>>>>>> you could stream audio from the unit to say a B&W T7, headphones, >>>>>>> hearing instruments or similar. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Conversely it would be nice to stream to the machine from say another >>>>>>> mobile device. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I like Chrome very much, I use it here on the Sony xPeria in the >>>>>>> Android world and on the Windows PC. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have to admit that - for me personally - I'm not at all interested in >>>>>>> a Note Taking device with a Touch Screen, I'm thinking about the >>>>>>> purchase of an ElBraille though I do like the Hims Inc way of doing >>>>>>> things. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I had a Voice Sense a number of years ago and I do miss that machine in >>>>>>> several ways though the software could no longer be updated so it was >>>>>>> pointless keeping that device. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I sincerely hope Hims Inc have done some work in the Wireless >>>>>>> connectivity department, on the Voice Sense the Wi-Fi was truly and >>>>>>> utterly dreadful. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway thanks for letting us know about the device. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 23/06/2017 7:20 PM, Gordon Smith wrote: >>>>>>>> Good Friday to you one and all >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've just spent a happy couple of hour teaching a client to use her >>>>>>>> new Braille Sense Polaris, whilst at the same time gaining an insight >>>>>>>> into the product myself. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Whilst the Polaris has some interesting facits, it isn't a device >>>>>>>> that's on my own shopping list, for a number of reasons. So, let me >>>>>>>> tell you a little about the device, and why I've formulated my >>>>>>>> opinions of it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Firstly, like the Braille Sense U2, there is no touch screen on this >>>>>>>> tablet. I use that word very guardedly, for that very reason. Hims do >>>>>>>> call it a tablet though, so I guess I must also. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Polaris has a very Braille Sense look and feel. It has 11 physical >>>>>>>> keys on the keyboard. One key is a Return key, and there are also >>>>>>>> control and Altogether keys, harping back to Windows. The device is >>>>>>>> powered by Android 5.1 Lollipup. However, as the operating system >>>>>>>> evolves, so will the Polaris, to a degree. Some of the frameworks of >>>>>>>> Android are not yet updated for accessibility, which prohibits the >>>>>>>> same kind of rapid growth that we are seeing with Android. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As I was saying. Their are 11 physical keys on the keyboard, plus >>>>>>>> touch-sensitive function keys which, again, resemble quite closely the >>>>>>>> Braille Sense U2. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Braille display has 32 cells. Interestingly, the display itself >>>>>>>> has a Braille cell cover, protecting the display from dust and other >>>>>>>> possible harm whilst not in use. That is, I must admit, a very welcome >>>>>>>> a.ition. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For reasons best known only to her, my client did not bring her case >>>>>>>> with her. So I didn't get to see that. But I am given to understand >>>>>>>> that it is, like the U2, a nice soft leather case with reinforced >>>>>>>> plates where the controls are located. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The device looks almost identical to the U2. With the noteable >>>>>>>> exception that the LCD unit is flipable, enabling easy access for >>>>>>>> someone with vision. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The technical specifications ofthe device are very interesting. It has >>>>>>>> an Octa-core Samsung processor, clocked at 3.1GHZ. It has 3GB of RAM, >>>>>>>> and a 64GB flash disk. The SAID-XC card reader is just the same as >>>>>>>> that of the U2. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Network support is good. It supports the new ACCORDING >>>>>>>> dual-band protocol, and is backward-compatible. It has the usual >>>>>>>> built-in software tools typical of the Braille Sense family, including >>>>>>>> electronic scientific calculator, word processor, UEB and Nemath >>>>>>>> compatible braille math support and a schedule manager. There is also >>>>>>>> the usual Contacts app, and all the other things you would expect of a >>>>>>>> Braille Sense. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm given to understand that all of the Sense tools have been >>>>>>>> re-written from the ground up, so they are not just ported from >>>>>>>> Windows Mobile. As I said earlier, the processor is a 64-bit Samsung >>>>>>>> Octa-core, <meaning it has 8 cores>, and one thing I will say is that >>>>>>>> it is us very very very fast! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It came out very favourably when I loaded a -plex PDF document into >>>>>>>> the reader. The rendering took just a fraction of a second. On the old >>>>>>>> U2, it takes upwards of 5 seconds to process the same ducument. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It directly supports wirless charging, has a USB 3.0 host port and can >>>>>>>> be charged wired using either it's own charger, <same charger as the >>>>>>>> U2>, or via the USB Micro client. >>>>>>>> On the front of the unit are the same media keys that you'd find on >>>>>>>> the U2, and the media player is handled in the same way as the U2. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Needless to say, Google is fully supported, so it is possible to >>>>>>>> import all of the apps you'd find in the Play Store. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The stereo speakers on the device sound quite good. I only had a quick >>>>>>>> listen, as I spent most of the time first sejting it up for my client, >>>>>>>> then showing her around the device. For me, as somebody used to the >>>>>>>> Hims way of doing things, it took no learning time. That, for some >>>>>>>> reason, amazed my client. She expected that she's have to leave the >>>>>>>> device with me so that I could set it up for her. No need for that. I >>>>>>>> was also a# to import her own network profile, so she can go home and >>>>>>>> start using it right away. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The web browser is quite interesting. those who like Chrome will be >>>>>>>> pleased that learn that the Hims browser is just a modified version of >>>>>>>> Google's browser. Modified so as to enable accessibilyoung right out >>>>>>>> of the box. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In summary, whilst I'm looking forward to helping Claire familiarise >>>>>>>> herself fully with her new device, it is not a device that I >>>>>>>> personally will be considering. I still believe that the BrailleNote >>>>>>>> Touch, whilst lacking in some respects, is a better all-round Android >>>>>>>> device. My main reason for saying that is because the Touch adopts a >>>>>>>> much more main stream approach to tablet uie. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Whilst the Braille display itself supports multitouch gestures on the >>>>>>>> Polaris, I still like to be able to utilise the fully-fledged touch >>>>>>>> screen. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I hope to acquire an ElBraille shortly, so will give you my thoughts >>>>>>>> when I do on that device. I'd give the Polaris 7 out of 10. I'm sure >>>>>>>> Hims have their reasons for their apfroach. But it isn't an approach >>>>>>>> for me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ============================== >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My Compliments And Kindest Regards Gordon Smith 'Accessibility >>>>>>>> And Information Technology Support Specialist >>>>>>>> ------------------------------N - ) jYi l ay7 z D1 . m秱Ƨ >>>>>>>> [ʋ z "u槶+ ? pj [ ӆ+, vz- z Z .n b b w *. ' . +r >>>>>>>> ڵ 2Y欲鞞 . X Z ޮ) '" + ~ ڟ'( + 2 צ . x *h >>>>>>>> h . + ~' h pz j) j{p b ^n u z 欢u r ʋ % G >>>>>>>> ǘ Z z| w b jw ֧E$ b >>>>>>>> jYi l a + Z m >>>>>>>> qǬ w M X ^r r ! !j : . ʋ ~ - :" b >>>>>>>> 躗 Zqǩ ky b >>>>>> a{ >>>>>>>> +u8^ z ^ ǧu Ơz - b k Ǭ ) zx" 歵 ! !j {^r r S >>>>>>>> + W |8 z [j ! ^~ + W ֛ ,j ל z ] >>>>>>>> + ל z gz z ^ . ^jǬzwZnV g ^r r zל z gz r i m . >>>>>>>> + + ] ,~ + W + ˩ ! !j t=== >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ********** >>>>>>> "Live each day as if you were goiing to die tomorrow, learn each day as >>>>>>> if you were going to live forever" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This post, like all posts to the Techno Chat E-Mail group has been >>>>>>> scanned by our server-side antivirus/malware solution. This should not, >>>>>>> however, be viewed as a substitution for your own security strategy. 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Suffice it >>>>> to say that we remain vigilant within the boundaries of reason. We >>>>> strongly urge you to do likewise! You have been warned!!! >>>>> >>>>> You can find an RSS listing of all posts to this group at: >>>>> <https://mail.mac-access.net:7025/list/techno-chat@techno-chat.net >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> To encourage your friends to join this group, first accept our thanks for >>>>> spreading the word. 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We assume no >>>> culpability whatever, implicit or otherwise, for any compromise to your >>>> systems as a result of opening any post to this group. Suffice it to say >>>> that we remain vigilant within the boundaries of reason. We strongly urge >>>> you to do likewise! You have been warned!!! >>>> >>>> You can find an RSS listing of all posts to this group at: >>>> <https://mail.mac-access.net:7025/list/techno-chat@techno-chat.net> >>>> >>>> To encourage your friends to join this group, first accept our thanks for >>>> spreading the word. 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We assume no >> culpability whatever, implicit or otherwise, for any compromise to your >> systems as a result of opening any post to this group. Suffice it to say >> that we remain vigilant within the boundaries of reason. We strongly urge >> you to do likewise! You have been warned!!! >> >> You can find an RSS listing of all posts to this group at: >> <https://mail.mac-access.net:7025/list/techno-chat@techno-chat.net> >> >> To encourage your friends to join this group, first accept our thanks for >> spreading the word. Then, have them send a message to the list processing >> engine at: >> <techno-chat-j...@techno-chat.net> >> To toggle on/off Digest (batch) mode for this group, please send a blank >> message to: >> <techno-chat-dig...@techno-chat.net> >> To leave the group, please send a blank message to: >> <techno-chat-le...@techno-chat.net>. >> >> To contact the support address for this group, please write to: >> supp...@techno-chat.net> >> >> ------------------------------ >> > ------------------------------ This post, like all posts to the Techno Chat E-Mail group has been scanned by our server-side antivirus/malware solution. This should not, however, be viewed as a substitution for your own security strategy. We assume no culpability whatever, implicit or otherwise, for any compromise to your systems as a result of opening any post to this group. Suffice it to say that we remain vigilant within the boundaries of reason. We strongly urge you to do likewise! You have been warned!!! You can find an RSS listing of all posts to this group at: <https://mail.mac-access.net:7025/list/techno-chat@techno-chat.net> To encourage your friends to join this group, first accept our thanks for spreading the word. Then, have them send a message to the list processing engine at: <techno-chat-j...@techno-chat.net> To toggle on/off Digest (batch) mode for this group, please send a blank message to: <techno-chat-dig...@techno-chat.net> To leave the group, please send a blank message to: <techno-chat-le...@techno-chat.net>. To contact the support address for this group, please write to: supp...@techno-chat.net> ------------------------------ ------------------------------ This post, like all posts to the Techno Chat E-Mail group has been scanned by our server-side antivirus/malware solution. This should not, however, be viewed as a substitution for your own security strategy. We assume no culpability whatever, implicit or otherwise, for any compromise to your systems as a result of opening any post to this group. Suffice it to say that we remain vigilant within the boundaries of reason. We strongly urge you to do likewise! You have been warned!!! You can find an RSS listing of all posts to this group at: <https://mail.mac-access.net:7025/list/techno-chat@techno-chat.net> To encourage your friends to join this group, first accept our thanks for spreading the word. Then, have them send a message to the list processing engine at: <techno-chat-j...@techno-chat.net> To toggle on/off Digest (batch) mode for this group, please send a blank message to: <techno-chat-dig...@techno-chat.net> To leave the group, please send a blank message to: <techno-chat-le...@techno-chat.net>. To contact the support address for this group, please write to: supp...@techno-chat.net> ------------------------------
