Stephen Davis
Tue, 09 Mar 2010 12:24:41 -0800
"If you could be as polite as the other members of this forum it would be a bonus (See J.Steele's response to me regarding being anti-customary but not a nutcase). Until then I'm going to ignore your 'contributions' if that's ok?"
But I'm the height of politeness, Steve, I am really. And if you want to cry
off just because the debate's getting a little heated, then that's OK.
"(I'm not sure why you consider yourself an expert in legislation and laws of
the UK - presumably including my involvement, despite me clearly explaining the
security aspect and why I cannot supply examples publicly)"
I don't consider myself an expert. I just go to the shops and find packaged
goods in totally metric measurements (like they have been for decades). I buy
loose goods in supermarkets and they get weighed at the checkout on electronic
scales that weigh them in metric only. Either that or look up readily
available facts that can be found quite easily anywhere if I care to look.
And, by the way, I'm sure I have no reason to doubt any of your secret work.
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Humphreys
To: U.S. Metric Association
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 7:47 PM
Subject: [USMA:46877] RE: Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona)
deferred
If you could be as polite as the other members of this forum it would be a
bonus (See J.Steele's response to me regarding being anti-customary but not a
nutcase). Until then I'm going to ignore your 'contributions' if that's ok?
(I'm not sure why you consider yourself an expert in legislation and laws of
the UK - presumably including my involvement, despite me clearly explaining the
security aspect and why I cannot supply examples publicly)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: stevo.da...@btinternet.com
To: usma@colostate.edu
Subject: [USMA:46876] RE: Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona)
deferred
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 19:33:32 +0000
"You'll have to ask Mr Steele whether he was being anti-imperial or
pro-metric."
I was referring to your comment, so it would be rather a waste of time asking
Mr Steel about a comment you made, wouldn't it?
"Weights and measures at work - I am currently involved with a big security
cleared project which involves many (legal) instances of weights and measures
most of which is based upon choice (we even have a conversion lookup table"
I notice that you haven't named a single example. That's because businesses,
such as traders in foodstuffs are bound by legislation preventing them from
picking and choosing the measures they use. On our roads, it is predominately
imperial; in our shops and supermarkets, it is predominately metric. It is
either one or the other.....you cannot have both! There may be exceptions but,
if there are, I'm certainly not aware of them.
"Finally - if you check - I followed up John (Steele's) I-19 post with a
shared positive opinion - with a congrats."
Yes you did - but I was referring to the comments you made after that, wasn't
I?
"Yes there are people who dislike people (and even send poisonous emails)
Yes indeed, there most certainly is, isn't there, Mr Humphrey's? There most
certainly is........hmmmm!
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Humphreys
To: U.S. Metric Association
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 9:52 PM
Subject: [USMA:46870] RE: Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona)
deferred
A couple of things are worth responding to.
1) You'll have to ask Mr Steele whether he was being anti-imperial or
pro-metric.
2) Weights and measures at work - I am currently involved with a big
security cleared project which involves many (legal) instances of weights and
measures most of which is based upon choice (we even have a conversion lookup
table). I'm sorry but I cannot discuss the details of the contract due to the
unfortunate existence of a couple of weirdos who like to track me. I will
mention more in private correspondence but not publicly.
Finally - if you check - I followed up John (Steele's) I-19 post with a
shared positive opinion - with a congrats. All this anti- stuff would carry
weight (insert pun) if I disliked members of this forum and they disliked me.
I do not - and I have even met up with USMA list forum members in 'real life'
for a friendly chat over a 'pint' (sorry!). Yes there are people who dislike
people (and even send poisonous emails) because of a measurement system but to
be honest they're 'off the scale' and have far deeper issues than even simply
going up to things and measuring them! :-)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: stevo.da...@btinternet.com
To: usma@colostate.edu
Subject: [USMA:46869] RE: Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona)
deferred
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 20:52:10 +0000
"
"Stephen, you don't have to be 'anti' the opposite to what you are 'pro-'
to, if that makes sense.
In fact that position (IMHO) is more honourable, realistic and mature. And
it makes the argument less personal - again all IMHO."
I'm just confused by your bizarre notion that JM Steel was wrong to appear
anti-imperial because he would prefer that these metric signs to be kept...and
it looks like they may be (hooray!!). He is a metric advocate. He is a member
of a metric discussion board. Why should he be worried about appearing
anti-imperial when it is the main function of the discussion board is to
promote metric? People on here are not exactly going to talk about imperial in
glowing terms, are they?
"I have my preferences but I'm definitely not anti-metric. I find it
difficult to envisage being against how something is measured.
In fact I think we are in an enviable position of being able to choose from
two well known systems in the UK (yes - I know that's going to invoke the
'mess' thing!)."
Yes...it does invoke the "mess" thing, because that's what our system is
in...certainly in regard to weights & measures because of previous governments
lacking a backbone and failing to introduce a coherent system of metric
measurement across the board. By the way, in regards to weights & measures in
business, there is NO choice. All are bound by W&M legislation, whether the
system is metric OR imperial.
"In fact I think we are in an enviable position of being able to choose
from two well known systems in the UK"
I don't...I find it a complete pain, actually. It is, of course, a free
country (allegedly) and people are free to use what weights & measures they
like but, as I said earlier, businesses and local authorities can't....they are
bound by legislation, making your notion of choice a misnomer.
"Obviously if I am denied the choice then I must use whatever someone else
has has decided is 'best for me'. That's a position that - in the main - I
wholly dislike."
OK....don't pay your taxes; don't wear a seat belt in your car; openly
smoke in a pub; park on double yellow lines! My point is, there is a welter of
legislation that denies us supposed "free choice". Weights & measures
legislation is there to prevent the traders "free choice" of ripping me off
blind!
"So I guess I am pro-imperial, pro-choice and pro-metric in that order of
personal importance."
Well, we largely do not have any choice in what currency we spend in the
UK, but I doubt it bothers anybody. If the UK government stuck to its guns and
introduced metrication across the board, NO exceptions, in a years time, I'd
think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who actually gives a damn. Most of
this "patriotic" wish to keep hold of our "historic" weights & measures is
largely bunkum, quite frankly. How many people are aware of rods, chains and
pecks? How many know how many yards in a mile or even ounces in a pound? Not
that many!
Choice in things that actually matter, Steve. I hardly think feet & inches
or pounds & ounces matter all that much.
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Humphreys
To: U.S. Metric Association
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 11:49 PM
Subject: [USMA:46856] RE: Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona)
deferred
Stephen, you don't have to be 'anti' the opposite to what you are 'pro-'
to, if that makes sense.
In fact that position (IMHO) is more honourable, realistic and mature.
And it makes the argument less personal - again all IMHO.
I have my preferences but I'm definitely not anti-metric. I find it
difficult to envisage being against how something is measured.
In fact I think we are in an enviable position of being able to choose
from two well known systems in the UK (yes - I know that's going to invoke the
'mess' thing!).
I choose imperial or metric depending on the job or situation in
question. I would never use fractions of inches (perhaps except half) and
instead use whole millimetres which to me is preferable. That particular
choice is pro-metric. It's not anti-Imperial, I simply think there's a better
way in that instance.
Obviously if I am denied the choice then I must use whatever someone else
has has decided is 'best for me'. That's a position that - in the main - I
wholly dislike.
The obvious reply by yourself, Stephen, is something like 'come off it -
you're anti-metric' or something similar to that. Of course you're free to
have your opinion but it's an odd position to take to claim you would know my
opinion despite what I truthfully say. I hope you don't do this though.
So I guess I am pro-imperial, pro-choice and pro-metric in that order of
personal importance.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: stevo.da...@btinternet.com
To: usma@colostate.edu
Subject: [USMA:46841] RE: Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona)
deferred
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 15:57:32 +0000
"As a footnote - I always think you should concentrate on trade reasons
for going metric.
With roadsigns and the like it looks more 'anti-imperial' than
'pro-metric' and many people will just see it as some people's personal beef
being played out at a national level - if that makes any sense. Sort of "I
hate those mile signs - make them say all 'k' & 'm' on them" versus "we've lost
an order because the customer required metric - make them show metric". That
sort of thing."
But its entirely OK to be 'anti-metric'? Also, isn't being
'anti-imperial' to a large extent the main purpose of this discussion board,
ie, to promote the usage of metric instead?
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Humphreys
To: U.S. Metric Association
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 7:09 PM
Subject: [USMA:46827] RE: Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona)
deferred
As a footnote - I always think you should concentrate on trade reasons
for going metric.
With roadsigns and the like it looks more 'anti-imperial' than
'pro-metric' and many people will just see it as some people's personal beef
being played out at a national level - if that makes any sense. Sort of "I
hate those mile signs - make them say all 'k' & 'm' on them" versus "we've lost
an order because the customer required metric - make them show metric". That
sort of thing.
However I will always say that you can usually tell how metric a
country is by what's on their road/public signs (ie it's part of the language)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 04:19:44 -0800
From: jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: [USMA:46824] RE: Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona)
deferred
To: usma@colostate.edu
Gridlock works!
I am happy, but I also realize it is insignificant in the bigger
picture. Even having or not having metric signage defined in the MUTCD is
insignificant in the absence of a time-bounded plan to actually GO metric.
Congress destroyed the plan and legislated against any new plan circa 1995,
with regards to roads.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stephen Humphreys <barkatf...@hotmail.com>
To: U.S. Metric Association <usma@colostate.edu>
Sent: Thu, March 4, 2010 6:23:40 AM
Subject: [USMA:46823] RE: Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona)
deferred
I suspect you're quite happy about that - I would have thought ;-)
Despite my normal position regarding this subject I actually feel happy
for you on this occassion! Congrats!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 16:20:05 -0800
From: jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: [USMA:46815] Replacement of metric signs on I-19 (Arizona)
deferred
To: usma@colostate.edu
Due to the lack of a plan, there is no plan. Since they couldn't
decide exactly how to do it, they are not going to do it at all.
Metric sign replacement on I-19 has been indefinitiely postponed, and
the funds
committed to another project.
http://www.azstarnet.com/news/local/article_d7dec8f6-26f5-11df-b567-001cc4c03286.html
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