Rob
Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:18:38 -0800
I'm not sure what I did! It think it was mostly index, but maybe the odd thumb-up here and there - not thumb down, as you suggest. But I really didn't put any thought into it, so. Rob www.rmguitar.info _____ From: Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 January 2008 16:11 To: Monica Hall; Rob MacKillop Cc: Vihuelalist Subject: 'Strumming' Foscarini (and others) - even more agreement I've spent quite a few hours exploring possible strumming methods for these sort of passages (ie where one is strumming low courses and/or mid courses without sounding others) and now think that a sort of combination pluck and strum is the best solution (rather than the exclusive index strum I advocated earlier). So we may be in even closer agreement! In short, the down stroke is made by the thumb strumming across two (or more courses) and the upstroke by the index alone raking back across the same two. This, it seems to me, allows a much fine level of control than with just the index and also maintains the strumming style I'm pretty convinced was expected in these situations. I'd be interested to hear if Rob used index alone or this sort of alternating thumb/finger strum (I'm not quite sure from the recording). Interestingly it reminds me rather of what lutenists call the 'thumb under' technique for running passages (used mostly used up to the end of the 16thC) whereby the thumb plucks (down) followed by the index (up) and perhaps this is how the technique came about..................... Martyn Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yes - I think we are more or less in agreement. I used to think with Bartolotti that you should always repeat the chord with the auxiliary note. But I have been re-reading the instructions in the earliest books and suddenly had this feeling that perhaps I got it wrong about Bartolotti as what he say is a bit ambiguous! Monica From: Martyn Hodgson To: Monica Hall Cc: Vihuelalist Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini again - Yes - I think we're reaching some sort of middle way. However, in the case we were particularly discussing I still return to the strum sign which I think makes all the difference - Rob shows well how it can be translated in practice (even makes me want to return to F). Incidentally, I gave the B example simply to show how general the practice was (as I know you know) not because I'm still confusing the two.......... Martyn Monica Hall wrote: Well - we are talking about Foscarini not Bartolotti. In his instructions at the beginning of Book 1 Bartolotti does say that you should hold the chord in place whilst you play the intervening notes but it is not entirely clear whether you should always repeat the chord with the passing note. In some circumstances I think that you should, and in others perhaps not. He quite clearly indicates notes which should be played as single notes - by putting 1 or 2 dots beside them. Foscarini is another matter. His Fourth rule reads as follows Fourthly particular regard must be had when playing those numbers which are placed beside the letter. These must be played singly; that is to say touching neither less nor more strings than those which are shown. In this way the effect of the ornaments will be felt and the parts will follow distinctly one after the other; such is my intention. Which observation will be both in general and especially in the Arie di Firenze Passegiate, Correnti Francese, Toccate, Gagliarde, e Balletti. Otherwise if more or less numbers [than are shown] are played it will succeed in awakening little pleasure in the listener. This is to be observed even if the number is alone; that is to say only touch that string and fret which the said number shows. As I said, in the particular passage under discussion the single figures don't follow an alfabeto chord but it seems to me that the same principle applies. Otherwise the part writing is obscured. However - as far as my specific query was concerned this isn't really relevant, as whether or not you play them as single notes or in combination with the preceding notes there are still only two notes in the strum... As far as the single notes which Stuart was referring to it is fairly obvious that these can't conveniently be played whilst the alfabeto chord is held and Foscarini has in fact said fairly clearly that they shouldn't be. But the general question as to whether you should should incorporate the passing notes into the chords or play them as single notes seems to be a bit of grey area. Perhaps it was left to the discretion of the player. Monica ----- Original Message ----- From: Martyn Hodgson To: Monica Hall ; Stuart Walsh Cc: Vihuelalist Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini again - Monica, why do you think that the single notes are not played as a chord with any of the preceding note(s)? I realise this is your position but I still don't understand why you hold it: as someone else has said, if F had wanted this there's a perfectly clear way to intabulate it. As you know I disagree with your view and find support in other tabs where just one note changes in a strummed chord progression. Numerous examples in other sources just one (from the real Bartolotti 1640 top of page 19): B,(B)1'/A3,(A)2,13/ etc, etc, etc....................... Martyn PS I do wish B's book 5 existed Monica Hall wrote: > I wonder if you've added at least one bar towards the end. I'm sure there > is definitely something dodgy about line 8, penultimate bar to final bar > on that line (bars 10-11 in Monica's transcription). I think there is a > bar - or more - missing and you have unconsciously compensated for it. You may be right - I haven't looked at that bit closely! > > Rob, while you have your guitar in one hand and the Edirol in the other, > try playing line one, second half of bar 4. The single note (a) on the > first course is marked with a strum sign. Can you physically play the > preceding chord and add the a? And even if you could, does it sound > remotely plausible as chord? And again the last two bars of line two, > especially the penultimate bar. Can you strum them? Could you make a > recording of a bit more of this piece? All these notes are meant to be played as single notes. They are not intended to be included in the chord. > > Finally , line 9, bar 4. how do you add a top g to a full barre Bb chord? You don't - it's meant to be a G major chord - include the open 2nd and 3rd courses and it modulates to C minor...(K3) And the penultimate note of the penultimate bar: how do you add, > physically, add an a to a C minor chord? Surely this must be single note > (but it's got a strum sign). Yes - it can only be a single note... > > I think Monica must be right in saying that some of Foscarini's strum > signs aren't actually strum signs. And there are strum signs all over the > place in Foscarini. > > Hooray! Monica > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 January 2008 16:40 >> To: 'Martyn Hodgson'; 'Stuart Walsh'; vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu >> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini again - >> >> I've made a stab at interpreting this on the guitar: >> www.rmguitar.info/temp.htm >> I think this is what Martyn is getting at - please forgive me, Martyn, if >> it >> isn't. Obviously it is only an attempt after a couple of read-throughs, >> and >> I got a little lost, but the general idea is, I think, one being >> forwarded >> by Martyn. So apart from being slightly out of tune and hesitant in >> parts, >> is there anything wrong with the interpretation? I think it is a >> reasonable >> assumption of Foscarini's intentions - anyway, it is his fault for not >> being >> explicit!. >> >> Rob MacKillop >> >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> >> >> >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Sent from Yahoo! - a smarter inbox. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Sent from Yahoo! - a smarter inbox. -- _____ Sent from Yahoo! <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailuk/taglines/isp/control/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/e vt=51949/*http:/uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/winter07.html> - a smarter inbox. --