Monica Hall
Tue, 15 Jan 2008 06:42:44 -0800
In a different context - in the Corrente on p.60 in the first line there are
passing notes following Chord M3 and G. These are clearly !!! WHY
meant to be played as single notes. It is not possible to play those
following Chord G and hold the chord.
*****************************************************
I'm sorry but at this point I am afraid that I have to disagree with you
because Foscarini has explicitly said in Rule 4 that in this situation these
notes should be played as single notes.
To quote it again...
Fourthly particular regard must be had when playing those numbers which are
placed beside the letter. These must be played singly; that is to say touching
neither less nor more strings than those which are shown. In this way the
effect of the ornaments will be felt and the parts will follow distinctly one
after the other; such is my intention. Which observation will be both in
general and especially in the Arie di Firenze Passegiate, Correnti Francese,
Toccate, Gagliarde, e Balletti. Otherwise if more or less numbers [than are
shown] are played it will succeed in awakening little pleasure in the
listener. This is to be observed even if the number is alone; that is to say
only touch that string and fret which the said number shows.
The piece in question is a Corrente Francese. On p.16 there is an Aria di
Firenze Passeggiata and throughout this piece you are supposed to play the
notes on the up strokes as single notes.
There is a certain amount of logic in marking them as up strokes because they
will be played with an up stroke with one finger.
If this rule doesn't apply in these circumstances - where does it apply?
*****************************
RESPONSE
In short, I do indeed still think that he knew what he wanted and was
trying, within the confines of the notation, to indicate what he actually did
So do I but I think that what he wants is something a bit different from
what you seem to suggest!
Monica
Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yes - I think we are more or less in agreement. I used to think with
Bartolotti that you should always repeat the chord with the auxiliary note.
But I have been re-reading the instructions in the earliest books and
suddenly had this feeling that perhaps I got it wrong about Bartolotti as what
he say is a bit ambiguous!
Monica
From: Martyn Hodgson
To: Monica Hall
Cc: Vihuelalist
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini again -
Yes - I think we're reaching some sort of middle way. However, in the
case we were particularly discussing I still return to the strum sign which I
think makes all the difference - Rob shows well how it can be translated in
practice (even makes me want to return to F).
Incidentally, I gave the B example simply to show how general the
practice was (as I know you know) not because I'm still confusing the
two..........
Martyn
Monica Hall wrote:
Well - we are talking about Foscarini not Bartolotti.
In his instructions at the beginning of Book 1 Bartolotti does say that
you should hold the chord in place whilst you play the intervening notes but it
is not entirely clear whether you should always repeat the chord with the
passing note. In some circumstances I think that you should, and in others
perhaps not. He quite clearly indicates notes which should be played as single
notes - by putting 1 or 2 dots beside them.
Foscarini is another matter. His Fourth rule reads as follows
Fourthly particular regard must be had when playing those numbers which
are placed beside the letter. These must be played singly; that is to say
touching neither less nor more strings than those which are shown. In this way
the effect of the ornaments will be felt and the parts will follow distinctly
one after the other; such is my intention. Which observation will be both in
general and especially in the Arie di Firenze Passegiate, Correnti Francese,
Toccate, Gagliarde, e Balletti. Otherwise if more or less numbers [than are
shown] are played it will succeed in awakening little pleasure in the listener.
This is to be observed even if the number is alone; that is to say only touch
that string and fret which the said number shows.
As I said, in the particular passage under discussion the single
figures don't follow an alfabeto chord but it seems to me that the same
principle applies. Otherwise the part writing is obscured.
However - as far as my specific query was concerned this isn't really
relevant, as whether or not you play them as single notes or in combination
with the preceding notes there are still only two notes in the strum...
As far as the single notes which Stuart was referring to it is fairly
obvious that these can't conveniently be played whilst the alfabeto chord is
held and Foscarini has in fact said fairly clearly that they shouldn't be.
But the general question as to whether you should should incorporate
the passing notes into the chords or play them as single notes seems to be a
bit of grey area. Perhaps it was left to the discretion of the player.
Monica
----- Original Message -----
From: Martyn Hodgson
To: Monica Hall ; Stuart Walsh
Cc: Vihuelalist
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini again -
Monica, why do you think that the single notes are not played as a
chord with any of the preceding note(s)? I realise this is your position but I
still don't understand why you hold it: as someone else has said, if F had
wanted this there's a perfectly clear way to intabulate it. As you know I
disagree with your view and find support in other tabs where just one note
changes in a strummed chord progression.
Numerous examples in other sources just one (from the real Bartolotti
1640 top of page 19):
B,(B)1'/A3,(A)2,13/ etc, etc, etc.......................
Martyn
PS I do wish B's book 5 existed
Monica Hall wrote:
> I wonder if you've added at least one bar towards the end. I'm sure
there
> is definitely something dodgy about line 8, penultimate bar to final
bar
> on that line (bars 10-11 in Monica's transcription). I think there is
a
> bar - or more - missing and you have unconsciously compensated for it.
You may be right - I haven't looked at that bit closely!
>
> Rob, while you have your guitar in one hand and the Edirol in the
other,
> try playing line one, second half of bar 4. The single note (a) on
the
> first course is marked with a strum sign. Can you physically play the
> preceding chord and add the a? And even if you could, does it sound
> remotely plausible as chord? And again the last two bars of line two,
> especially the penultimate bar. Can you strum them? Could you make a
> recording of a bit more of this piece?
All these notes are meant to be played as single notes. They are not
intended to be included in the chord.
>
> Finally , line 9, bar 4. how do you add a top g to a full barre Bb
chord?
You don't - it's meant to be a G major chord - include the open 2nd and
3rd
courses and it modulates to C minor...(K3)
And the penultimate note of the penultimate bar: how do you add,
> physically, add an a to a C minor chord? Surely this must be single
note
> (but it's got a strum sign).
Yes - it can only be a single note...
>
> I think Monica must be right in saying that some of Foscarini's strum
> signs aren't actually strum signs. And there are strum signs all over
the
> place in Foscarini.
>
>
Hooray!
Monica
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 January 2008 16:40
>> To: 'Martyn Hodgson'; 'Stuart Walsh'; vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini again -
>>
>> I've made a stab at interpreting this on the guitar:
>> www.rmguitar.info/temp.htm
>> I think this is what Martyn is getting at - please forgive me,
Martyn, if
>> it
>> isn't. Obviously it is only an attempt after a couple of
read-throughs,
>> and
>> I got a little lost, but the general idea is, I think, one being
>> forwarded
>> by Martyn. So apart from being slightly out of tune and hesitant in
>> parts,
>> is there anything wrong with the interpretation? I think it is a
>> reasonable
>> assumption of Foscarini's intentions - anyway, it is his fault for
not
>> being
>> explicit!.
>>
>> Rob MacKillop
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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