Martyn Hodgson
Wed, 06 Jan 2010 03:09:11 -0800
Re: PS
I also vastly prefer comments all in one piece with the previous
queries/comments below rather than splattered in bits throughout the
earlier text.
MH
--- On Wed, 6/1/10, Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini Passacaglio
To: "Stuart Walsh" <s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 10:52
The passacalles in both Guerau in "Poema harmonico" and Santiago de
Murcia's in "Passacalles y obras" are all in two part. The first
part is in common time and the second in triple time. It's not clear
whether they are meant to be played continuously.
Guerau's all end with an incomplete cadence whereas Murcia's end with
a perfect cadence (as far as I can remember without going through and
checking everyone individually).
All except the last two in Sanz's are in common time - and the first
one in D major is in two parts.
Santa Cruz seems to alternate his between common and triple time.
But these are of course all Spanish. It may reflect the fact that the
passacalles originally was not a dance (pace the various dictionaries)
but a refrain or interlude inserted into other dances.
Both Bartolotti's and Corbetta's are in a continuous sequence
modulating to the next key at the end.....
Complex issue here.
Monica
P.S. I don't know what other people think but I would it easier if you
put your comments at the beginning of each message. Bot if everyone
else thinks differently I'll put mine at the end too. Is there any
"netiquette" to this?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Walsh"
<[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
To: "Monica Hall" <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini Passacaglio
>
>> A few more thoughts on the passacaglia.
>>
>> I spent a bit more time looking at Foscos passacaglie and of course
he does
>> make a distinction between the passacaglia which is in a minor key
and
>> ciaccona which is in a major key. The same distinction is made by
Corbetta
>> in his 1643 book although it is not so clear as the pieces aren't
>> individually titled. Gallot - who copied most of them does rather
inconsistently label them either passacaglie or ciaccona. Bartolotti
just refers to all his as Passacaglie on p.1 apart from the Ciaccona on
p. 49.
>>
>> Not sure what that proves but it seemed interesting.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Monica
>>
> Another thing about some of the later passacaglie of Fosco's is the
fact that they are in two parts (I mean Part 1 - set of variations
followed by Part 2 - more variarions). Does any other composer do
this with the passacaglio? Given that the passacaglio is variations
over a chord sequence what could make Part 2 different from just
another Passacaglio in that key? What is it in Part 1 that is extended
in Part 2? But Fosco does this with at least one Toccato too. It must
be some rhetorical thing or other?
>
>
> Stuart
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Walsh"
<[4]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
>> To: "Vihuelalist" <[5]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:02 AM
>> Subject: [VIHUELA] Foscarini Passacaglio
>>
>>
>>> On the ning site Monica wrote: 'Passacalles literally means "pass
through
>>> the streets".' Interesting. And so you could be passing through the
>>> streets purposefully or perhaps just meandering about.At the
beginning of
>>> his book (his collected works, as it were) Foscarini gives the
'Passacalli
>>> sopra tutti le lettere' which seem to be just four bars with four
chords
>>> (not starting on first beat of bar). And, more or less, that's how
most
>>> passacalles I've ever seen are structured: a four bar scheme
endlessly
>>> repeated. (Some in the Gallot MS don't always fit, though)
>>>
>>> But Foscarini's own examples of the passacalles don't fit this at
all.
>>> They really do seem to just meander about, always hinting at a
typical
>>> passaccalles but never quite being it. Monica has had a go at an
edited
>>> reconstruction of one in E minor. *[6]http://tinyurl.com/y8mvxfd
(page
>>> 17) -Passacaglio Variato sopra l'+*
>>> //
>>> There is no (easily discernible) repeated four bar structure and no
>>> (easily discernible) direction to the music. And it's in two parts!
After
>>> 57 bars the first part ends and second part sort of carries on in
more or
>>> less the same way for another 64 bars. And it's as if Foscarini
really
>>> liked the sound and feel of certain chord changes - especially E
minor at
>>> second position to B minor with a g in the melody on top.
>>>
>>> I've had a go at the first part. Technically it is not difficult
piece but
>>> I always manage to make a pig's ear of one bit or another and my
guitar
>>> runs out of tone in bars 16-19; it's like squeezing an orange with
no
>>> juice left. But I suspect a good player could make something of the
piece
>>> and the Part 2 would go yet deeper into the strange little world.
Maybe
>>> the use of repicco and trillo would spice it up a bit?
>>>
>>> [7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XiJS0GVT5A
>>>
>>>
>>> Stuart
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>>
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>
--
References
1. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=s.wa...@ntlworld.com
5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. http://tinyurl.com/y8mvxfd
7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XiJS0GVT5A
8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html