vortex-l  

Re: [Vo]:Re: Arata's results are really astounding

Jones Beene
Tue, 10 Jun 2008 08:13:18 -0700

--- Michel Jullian wrote:

> Aren't gammas a "hotfusionomorphic" view of fusion?

Rightly or wrongly, that is the only view of fusion
which is accepted by physics, and it can accommodate
all of LENR when properly (re)interpreted. 

If you do not need to invent a new model from the
ground up, then why do it?

Cold fusion can be verbalized most cogently as a QM
version of hot fusion with an increased statistical
probability and a decreased intensity (time-based)
energy release. 

That would be as opposed to a brand new kind of
fusion.
Is that merely a semantics argument? 

You can be your own judge of that, but the distinction
is important for some observers. IOW there is
presently NO other internally consistent view of LENR
except as based directly on prior hot fusion
understanding, but which is modified to the *minimum
possible extent* to account for the experimental
findings and differences which are now proved in
dozens of labs.

A brand new "kind" of fusion is NOT required IMHO.

> The energy may be released in some other way in the
particular environment.

Yes, by ultraviolet emission ;-)

Once again - why invent a brand new controversial way
to release energy via phonons - simply to justify a
*real* QM reaction, which itself is NOT necessarily
controversial (except in enhanced statistical
probability) and except in the way you have invented
to describe it ! 
 
> Mills' hydrinos may not be needed either, 

Not exactly- but that is why I called the reactant
"Mills-lite"

> after all all that's required is a _temporary_
lowering of the Coulomb barrier, as in Horace's
deflation fusion hypothesis 

... which is essentially the same thing, but many in
the LENR camp have never given RM any credit for this
at all. I don't think it is unfair to mention that
Horace is on record in the past as being anti-Mills.

All that I am doing is giving some attribution to
Mills large and important body of work going back to
1990 - since he is, if not the first proponent of what
can be called "extended ground-state redundancy" at
least the most vocal proponent of it, and he has
clothed it in a lot of convincing experiment (which he
may have misinterpreted).

>(kind of short lived hydrinos if I understand
correctly)

Mills considers the hydrino to be stable- but that may
be the part he got wrong. Or partly wrong if most are
unstable and immediately reinflate. Mills even claims
to have captured them ; and has pictures on his site
of this: LOL as if a picture were proof. 

Only problem is he sent out dozens of samples to MRI
XPS and NMR specialists and not a single one will
independently confirm his claim.

When contacted indpendently - even Mills best
"supporter" has hedged. Eric Kreig, no matter what you
may think of him, has tried to verify Mills by
actually tracking down the people involved. 

QUOTE: I got through to Alfred Miller of Lehigh
university.... He has done XPS studies on samples
Mills gave him. He's seen interesting things that are
not easily explained - but is very  clear that it is
still inconclusive.  He doesn't poo poo this stuff out
 of hand, but I gather that he is not convinced the
laws of physics must be  rewritten either.... I can't
really conclude anything significant from his data. 
It doesn't support Mills - but it doesn't prove him a
fraud either.

IOW Mills best "independent" proof of a stable hydrino
may not support that conclusion. It is inconclusive.

Why should we not be free to modify Mills claims? But
also- why should we not give Mills the credit he
deserves, even if he did not get it 100% correct?

Jones