Kevin, Apparently you have your fixed concepts of how the universe began and have a difficult time relating to flexible ideas. The reason I asked about 1 billion years before the big bang was to open discussion about the problem now facing our understanding of time before that event. It was just rhetorical. How can you be sure that time or the universe has not been existing forever? Reference to the bible is not scientific and I know you are aware of that. If you choose to think otherwise, then let others among us think with an open mind. Is it your intent to stop creative thought?
Please explain how you can prove that the universe truly began approximately 13+ billion years ago. The measurements that have been conducted are continually subject to correction. Unless God speaks directly to you then you are merely speculating. Have you looked into the time dilation expected to occur near black hole event horizons? Most black holes are not considered to have a mass that is anywhere near as great as the entire universe yet they are capable of bringing time to a standstill. On what basis do you claim that there is insufficient mass within the universe to reach that threshold? Perhaps you should review your statement and offer correction. Do you consider the universe to be contained within some physical boundary? Please show me a sound basis for this belief and just because we can not see beyond a certain distance does not mean that it doesn't exist outside of our viewpoint. I am just speculating that time behaves in a similar manner. Why limit it to some well defined starting point just because we can not prove so far that it exists prior to that point. Unfortunately we are quite limited in our ability to understand the true nature of the universe. I appreciate people that want to contribute to the discussions but when someone comes forward with an attitude of ridicule, it is preferable that they keep their negative thoughts to themselves. Your comments typically fall into that negative category. Try to look at the positive aspects of issues and most of us will respond in a like manner. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Kevin O'Malley <kevmol...@gmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Fri, Aug 29, 2014 5:53 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]: The Absurdity of Darwinian Evolution. On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 1:17 PM, David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> wrote: Lets call time before the big bang as BBB. So what was around 1 billion years BBB? ***Time was created at the beginning of the big bang, so asking what happened a billion years before time was created is like asking "what's the difference between a duck"? It is useless. Like I said, diminishing returns. If we choose to believe that time has been passing forever ***This ain't scientific inquiry any more. If we choose to believe.... that unicorns poop skittles then we'll need more dentists. then there would be plenty of time for life to develop during the past. There is sufficient evidence that everything we see today was produced during and after the assumed big bang, but what if time itself was slowed down at the initialization of the big bang such that an infinite amount of it has passed since that zero point. ***And what if time is just an illusion, you aint here and I aint here, we're all just plugged into a matrix to generate electricity. Maybe it's fun for you to think like that but it is a waste of time. Like I said, diminishing returns. Our measurement techniques and assumptions lead us to believe that 13+ odd billion years has elapsed, but what if we are wrong? ***Then maybe 14 billion years have elapsed, but not 500trilliontrillion years. According to relativity, immense mass concentration slows down the rate of time passage ***In order for your theory to be true, it would have to stop the rate of time passage. The entire mass of the known universe wouldn't even be near close enough to stop it. and it is difficult to imagine a more dense concentration than that of the initial big bang mass of the entire known universe. ***Then imagine something even more dense that CREATED it, spoke it into existence, as He has claimed to do. So, if an infinite amount of time has passed since the big bang there is no concern about how long it might take life to take form. ***Other than the fact that your supposition is baloney, it's fun to think this way. And a waste of time. BTW, you're still arguing on this side of the big bang, not a billion years "before" it. There is also no need to be concerned about what was before the big band since that was an infinite amount of time ago. In this scenario we take advantage of the behavior of infinite processes. ***Then why did you bring it up earlier? To expand on this idea. Perhaps the present assumption of a period of universal inflation is really just ***really just a buncha baloney. a patch to make the time frames fit into our best guess for the age of the universe. Our perception of the rate at which time passes is established by the world around us and ensures that we will find it difficult to imagine a universe of infinite time duration. The same can be said of our perception of an infinite space. With the proposition I am outlining above, both of these dimensions are allowed to be unbounded and can fit into our observations. ***But they DON'T fit into our observations. I make no claim that this idea is original since the principle seems so simple, and I personally tend to consider it open minded thinking. ***Of COURSE you consider it open minded thinking. And no doubt you'd consider other options to be closed minded thinking. That's because you disagree with the end result. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Alan Fletcher <a...@well.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Fri, Aug 29, 2014 2:24 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]: The Absurdity of Darwinian Evolution. > >My question is about the metaphysics of >where/how/what "heaven" was before creation. >***Well, I answered your original >question. Now you want to expand it into areas >where I have diminishing interest. There's >basically no scientific (and probably very >little spiritual) value in such a discussion. Contrariwise : pre-big-bang is one of the hottest areas of physics right now.
