Re: [WSG] Small element (was:Styling forms)

[Thomas Thomassen]

I had a look at your article. Got some questions:

One of your examples:
<p>
<i>Why does this semantic markup stuff have to be so unclear at times</i>,
   he thought.
</p>

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to use:
<p>
<q>Why does this semantic markup stuff have to be so unclear at times</q>,
   he thought.
</p>
...since it's quoting a person's though?


As for:
<p>
The nematicidal marigold,
<i lang="la">Tagetes minutum</i>,
can grow to 8-10 feet.
</p>

wouldn't that be better as:
<p>
The nematicidal marigold,
<dfn>Tagetes minutum</dfn>,
can grow to 8-10 feet.
</p>
As this then defines what Tagetes minutum is?


Gotto give it to you. It's been a while since my ideas of semantial markup 
has been challenged such as your articles does. Refreshing. My mind bubbles. 
I'll have to investigate your other articles. And I think it's time for me 
to have a new look at the w3c specs for these 'old' elements again.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike at Green-Beast.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <wsg@webstandardsgroup.org>
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Small element (was:Styling forms)


Hi Thomas,

In HTML4 it's a font style element on the line with <b> and <i> etc

I guess I've always considered it a font-sizing element more than a 
styling thing, though the final result is a visual style. I've always felt 
it has a meaning of being less important than the surrounding text. An 
afterthought, a byline, some fineprint, or supporting sub-text.

can we say that <small> has a semantic meaning now?

I always felt it did in an odd sort of way. I judge its use again with 
styles off. If I really want the text to be smaller to effectively 
separate its meaning from the surrounding text, then I use the small 
element. If it shouldn't be, or if I'm not sure or can't decide, or I 
don't care one way or the other, then I don't use it. If I still want it 
to appear smaller for some reason I will likely use a span element instead 
to style the text in question without dimishing its value as it relate to 
the surrounding content. However, when I usually want text to be smaller, 
then it is usually because I feel it *is* less important falling into one 
of the categories I mentioned, so I usually end up using the small tag. I 
may use it more than some people for this reason.

Same thing applies to the b element, but differently. The b element is 
meant to be a highlight. I end up never using it because I always end up 
asking myself why I want to highlight something. My answer always guides 
me. If it's purely stylistic then I use a span, but I usually want to 
hightlight a word because it is meant to be spoken with emphasis 
(inflection) so I'll end up using em. Or it may be more important than the 
surrouding (a common reason to highlight a word or phrase), then I use the 
"important" element: strong. b is one of those I don't really have a use 
for. I use the i element more regularly becuase the W3C is more clear 
about it, and its uses are more distinct and meaningful

My thoughts on those two elements are spelled out in more detail here: 
http://green-beast.com/blog/?p=222

Cheers.
Mike








I think this might be one of those double-edged swords.


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