Svip
Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:43:16 -0700
2008/7/20 David Storey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > This is incredibly short sighted. Comments inline, plus one comment to an > earlier mail: > >> let's not forget that the iPhone's >> browser is (as of right now) the largest mobile browser, > > Not true. Opera Mini has more active users per week than iPhones that exist > on the market. Apple may have superior marketing, get a lot of free > advertising and are beloved by developers (I myself use a Mac and own a > iPod), but they are not the number one mobile browser. They may be one day > due to some of the things mentioned above, along with the iPhone being a > great piece of hardware and software, but not currently, and Opera Mini > continues to rise at a very healthy rate. You misunderstood me, by "larger" I was not referring to user base, I was referring to the display content. Opera Mini does not give the same amount of "full blown" content as the iPhone's Safari browser does. Not that I care about that, cause I don't think I'd need that on a mobile device yet. > On 20 Jul 2008, at 17:38, Svip wrote: > >> Lars, I think you're forgetting an important thing though. The >> iPhone's Safari is very different from Safari on an iMac or Opera Mini >> on another mobile 3G device. >> >> Point is, while Apple will tell you the Safari on the iPhone is like >> the Safari you get on your iMac or MacBook, it is still limited by the >> small screen. So while it still is kilometres ahead of the other >> devices as to what its browser can deliver, it is still a completely >> different experience than that of Safari on the computer. > > Again not true. Take the HTC Touch Diamond. It has both a superior screen > resolution, and similar hardware specs, and a full HTML browser (Opera > Mobile 9.5) with arguably greater standards compliance. Opera Mobile 9.5 > has basically the same rendering engine as Opera 9.5 on desktop. Opera has > been developing mobile browsers for years, and has a lot of that know how in > the current generation of the browser. And unlike Mini it has a full > JavaScript implementation. I was not aware of Opera Mobile, so I admit I was uniformed. >> >> >> Therefore, I think it is not that silly to name there be currently 2 >> common devices to interact with a website from, and the mobile >> category has a subcategory of the advance level browsing that is the >> iPhone's Safari. > > That would be short sighed to do that, like saying one should give a more > advanced version of a site to IE in ye olde days. As well as the Diamond I > mentioned before, there is an entire class of devices that have similar to > better specs than the iPhone that can run a similar to more advanced web > browser. Samsung i900 is another example that Opera Mobile 9.5 is running > on with the same touch screen style form factor and post 500mhz processor. > Ignoring Windows Mobile that 9.5 currently runs on, there is S60, such as > the N96 which runs another WebKit browser with the same engine as mobile > safari. > > Ignoring mobile all together, what about things like games consoles? The > Nintendo Wii browser was very popular for Opera. There could be any hit > portable (or not portable) device that could come out at any time, with a > first class browser and user experience. Designing just for iphone misses > out on that opportunity. It is fantastic for lock in though (look what mess > that has got us in on the regular desktop web - just ask the IE team and all > the issues they are having trying not to break content aimed for their > legacy browser versions). I actually have to agree with that. >> >> >> But... let's not forget that sometimes developing "apps" for specific >> browsers is done purely by the intention of abilities this browser >> applies. On several projects I don't care if it doesn't work in >> anything else but Firefox. > > Says it all really... You've never heard about having fun? I don't make useful applications for the web. >> >> >> Regards >> Svip >> >> 2008/7/20 Keryx Web <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >>> >>> Ben Dodson skrev: >>>> >>>> I don't personally have a problem with having iphone in a URL as it is >>>> generally used for applications that are very specific to the iphone. >>> >>> It is 1998 and I am developing an application that is very specific to >>> MSIE... A strategy proved bad! >>> >>> IMO this is *exactly* the reasoning that J. Zeldman, Steve Champeon et al >>> protested against. A protest that started and defined the web standards >>> movement. >>> >>>> Yes, perhaps there should be versions for other devices (e.g. Nokia) but >>>> the reality is that most developers won't bother making specific sites >>>> for >>>> these users and instead use a generic mobile stylesheet. >>> >>> No there should not be versions for Nokias or Sony-E's or LG's or any >>> other >>> device. What we perhaps need, though, is a graded browser support chart, >>> like Yahoo has for desktop apps. >>> >>>> The difference with the iPhone is that it's the latest bandwagon in town >>>> and that the majority of iPhone owners will use the internet on the >>>> phone >>>> (whereas the majority of Nokia phone owners won't use the web browser on >>>> the >>>> phone). >>> >>> The difference is that Nokia et al makes several different kinds of >>> phones, >>> not all are smartphones. Every single smartphone owner I know uses the >>> web >>> browser on the phone and has been doing it for quite a few years. >>> >>> It is great that the iPhone has made people aware of the mobile web, and >>> lowered the threshold for some to use it. But as developers we should not >>> care about the present, but the present and the future! Locking ourselves >>> in >>> to one device is not a strategy for the future, even if iPhone shows up >>> as >>> the leading mobile device in usage stats today. Remember, there once was >>> a >>> time when MSIE was so dominant that as a web developer it made sense in >>> many >>> ways to develop MSIE only web sites! >>> >>>> It also has a very specific style and so companies will try and cater to >>>> this (e.g. the facebook web app was designed to look like a native >>>> iPhone >>>> application). >>> >>> That I predict is a fad that will quickly go away. Site owners will soon >>> see >>> the benefits of designing for the brand of the website, rather than the >>> brand of the device it is accessed from. >>> >>>> Of course, now there is the App store and the ability to run third party >>>> applications, I'm sure a lot of these iPhone specific websites will >>>> disappear as the developers move to offering a built in solution. >>> >>> Hopefully you are right. Off topic: The fact that people will jubilantly >>> welcome a solution that means they are getting locked in to a single >>> vendor >>> is also beyond my understanding... >>> >>> And I am not a Mac hater. I use Macs (as well as Windows and Linux) and >>> listen with delight to my iPod. >>> >>> >>> Lars Gunter >>> >>> >>> ******************************************************************* >>> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm >>> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm >>> Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> ******************************************************************* >>> >>> >> >> >> ******************************************************************* >> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm >> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm >> Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> ******************************************************************* > > David Storey > > Chief Web Opener, > Product Manager Opera Dragonfly, > Consumer Product Manager Opera Core, > Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group member > > Consumer Product Management & Developer Relations > Opera Software ASA > Oslo, Norway > > Mobile: +47 94 22 02 32 > E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Blog: http://my.opera.com/dstorey > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************* > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ******************************************************************* > > Regards Svip ******************************************************************* List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *******************************************************************