dear sirs,
i find this kind of discussion inappropriate on this list, as it is a mac list, and i have been very happy ever since i subscribed that it is a very brief and mac-oriented list, and i think we should keep it this way.
i, too, think terrorism is a big bull**it, and see with horror everything that's going on, but as i live only 70km away from former yugoslavia i could tell you some stories that make u think if america is the land of freedom or of terror to the rest of the world. Violence under any form is still violence and brings nothing in the end but pain. it doesn't bring the loved but dead ones back, and it doesn't hurt who it should hurt... unguilty people are its victims, and the result is never what our and your leaders want to make us believe. If you want to take my word for granted, there is a huge disinformation going around in the USA on everything that happens (seen that, as i've been living here ever since, and the war was going on 70km away) and that the Us army and politcians do. but remember we are small Mac-lowing citizens, and we'll never see through the net of political and economical interests... what you believe is good and legitimate might just be what others want you to hear, and from what i see that the US citizens think, they have really no idea what goes on behind their backs, because they have no chance of seing smtg else than what their leaders tell them. And I'm sure it's the same with us, just being near the conflict area made us see what we shouldn't see... now, remember, i am no terrorist and no serb that hates the americans, i live in Romania, and respect both nations the same :)
everything we can do and be sure of is to disapprove terrorism and hate and violence. and act firmly when we have to... i don't want to get into politics here, i just want this mail list to be a mac list, and people understand that neither one talking about violence is on the right side... and hiding behind any religion is just a shamefull act!
tks, and please let politics out of ur sigs and mails...
ANdrei
----- Original Message ----- From: "Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "1st PowerMacs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 1:20 PM
Subject: [1st] Treason????
From: Philip Stortz, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- President George W. Bush, Vice President Richard B. Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, and Attorney General John D. Ashcroft have committed violations and subversions of the Constitution of the United States of America. <www.VoteToImpeach.org> They should be charged with high treason and imprisoned frankly. If there is no rule of law there can be no civilization.
I really must object to this kind of 'sig' on this list. This is highly inflamatory, rude, innapropriate, disrespectful, innacurate, misrepresentative, and an outrage to dump this kind of thing onto this mailing list in the guise of calling it a 'sig'.
I understand that it is technically correct, but like its outrageous statements, correct does not make it RIGHT. BIG difference.
WELL Over 2000 people were killed at the WTC 3 years ago and I find it an utter OUTRAGE to call the counterterrorism efforts 'treason'. I cannot sit back and shut up to have that kind of treasonous statements made without a powerful response.
The legality of having free speech does NOT give a human being the 'right' to shout 'fire' in a crowded theatre and the statement that a president who has fiercely defended his people does not in any way make him guilty of treason. The dictionary definition, clearly shows where the REAL treason is
Please especially note #3 and # 6 below
trea�son ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trzn)
1. Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.
2. A betrayal of trust or confidence.
3 the offense of attempting to overthrow the government of one's country or of assisting its enemies in war; specifically : the act of levying war against the United States or adhering to or giving aid and comfort to its enemies by one who owes it allegiance 4 a giving up, a delivering up, fr. tradere to give up, betray
5 The offense of attempting to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance, or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power; disloyalty; treachery.
6 a crime that undermines the offender's government
Note: In monarchies, the killing of the sovereign, or an attempt to take his
life, is treason. In England, to imagine or compass the death of the king,
or of the queen consort, or of the heir apparent to the crown, is high
treason, as are many other offenses created by statute. In the United States,
treason is confined to the actual levying of war against the United States,
or to an adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.
I find it amazing that a 'sig' of this kind can be accepted without forceful
objection by numerous individuals on this list. This country has gone through
WAY too much to sit back and tolerate the kind of blatent attack that was
done on September 11, 2001.
Remember that Osama Bin Laden was 'nurtured' by Afghanistan's Taliban government. (Source: <http://yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=16016> )
Remember that 9-11-01 was not his first, second, third, or fourth attempt
to destroy American people. I'll spare you the list. Furthermore, President
Bush made a crystal clear statement to terrorist harboring governments to
either hand over the terrorists that they are giving sanctuary to, or share
in their fate. Which part of that is unclear?
The cost in lives, the financial cost, the freedom cost...have all been utterly staggering. I strenuously object to
1: this twisting of the truth into painting George Bush as the villan in association with taking a fierce stance in defense of our country.
2: the misuse of a FREEDOM to have any sig a person wants being exchanged for LISCENCE to throw whatever treasonous statements one might wish to dump on people. It is technically correct but highly argumentative to put such sigs that contain religion or politics onto a Mac mail list.
December 7, 1941 Pearl Harbor 2403 dead
September 11, 2001 WTC New York & more
American Flight 11 87 (5) United Flight 175 60 (5) American Flight 77 59 (5) United Flight 93 40 (4) Pentagon (on the ground) 125 WTC (on the ground) 2,602 Total Sept 11 deaths: 2,973 (19)
Osama Bin Laden wanted attention. He picked the wrong leader to get it from. Perhaps he should have done it a year sooner so he would not have had such a strongly Protective leader to contend with. That is not a mistake he could afford to make once.
Our country was forced to war 3 years ago by ultra left wing radicals who refused to take freedom for an answer, not by political choice. This is a harsh, painful reality that I don't find one bit funny. Lets not let this list degrade into a political or religious forum for extremist political stuff.
I hereby FORMALLY request that political or religious sigs be OFFICIALLY set as off limits on this mailing list.
My apologies to those who find this response to an innapropriate sig to be 'off topic'. I find the sig utterly offensive, treasonous, innacurate, untruthful, and rude...just to put it mildly.
Don
The best way for evil to triumph is for good people to sit back and do nothing
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