my apologies, I didnt intend to sound bitter. Im just speaking based on my experiences. detroit is different than any other place on earth and not always for the better. its very very territorial. my hope is that the demfs break down the walls and expose the great minds in detroit to the sounds of the other electronic music hotspots.
if you're from detroit and you dont make "detroit techno" and its easier to get shows in europe than it is in detroit, thats indicitive of something, dont you think? detroit has a sound and we're all proud of it, but I'd like to see more diversity. thats not bitter, thats just wishing detroit the best. diversity means more listeners = more events and more opportunities to perpertuate the detroit influence on all genres of electronic music. again, Im not debating anything with anyone, Im just stating my opinions based on my experiences. ----- Original Message ----- From: "xx xx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 5:11 PM Subject: Re: (313) Moby > Was not the debate. > I don't buy assumptions and stereotypes. > The issue is more deep than that and you know it. > Get the global pictures, not just 2 weak arguments. > We cannot debate in few lines this subject, is more than art and business, > or ego and bubble. Refer to my email posted on March second, 2002 on the > same list. > > And now if you want to debate do it off list because, sounds like your tone > is a little bit biter and that could put us very far. > But we are adult, so I know you'll do it. > > > >From: "::\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "xx xx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> > >Subject: Re: (313) Moby > >Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:16:33 -0500 > > > >detroit artists are no different than artists anywhere else. a problem > >with > >*certain* detroit producers is they think they are much more important to > >the music than they are and they have a chip on their shoulder. I'm sure > >this happens everywhere, but detroit lives in its own little bubble. the > >more diversified my musical tastes become, the more I see detroit as > >somewhat close minded to new styles and new concepts. > > > >dont mistake a shxtty attitude or big ego for lack of charisma or > >discrimination based on race. I think its a cop-out for some people that > >dont want to take responsibility for their own actions. > > > >music falls into 2 main catagories: art and business. the businessmen who > >can also be artists tend to do better than the artists who have no sense of > >business and act like the world will beat down their doors if they make > >decent tracks. you have to sell yourself and you have to make connections. > >electronic musicians are more like orchestra conductors than rock stars. > >its not a high profile type of entertainment compared with other genres of > >popular music. > > > >if you wanna be a star, techno shouldnt be your music of choice from a > >production standpoint. > > > >-" " > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "xx xx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[email protected]> > >Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 1:55 PM > >Subject: Re: (313) Moby > > > > > > > > > > What majors companies look for is marketable products with manageable > > > artists, with or without charisma. > > > > > > Artists from Detroit are charismatic but not manageable. > > > > > > Manageable in term of artists who always answer "you're right" > > > to whatever could say a sell out A&R at a major company who wants to > >sell > >to > > > a sell-out crowd. > > > > > > > > > >From: "Cyclone Wehner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: 313 Detroit <[email protected]> > > > >Subject: Re: (313) Moby > > > >Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 04:52:02 +1100 > > > >> > > > >Uh-uh, I inadvertently started this by posting that MTV story. I > >thought > >it > > > >was interesting Moby is calling an end to Area 1/2 more as I saw it as > >a > > > >possible economic/cultural indicator. Is it because 18 hasn't sold as > >well > > > >as Play? Or because corporations are nervous of supporting such events > >in > > > >the current economic climate? Or something to do with the clampdown on > > > >'rave' culture in the US? > > > > > > > >I think we've discussed Moby a lot in the past on 313 and it hasn't > >ever > > > >got > > > >us anywhere - and, he he, I'm not his biggest fan. Anyway 18 didn't > >live > >up > > > >to Play in terms of sales and ironically I think that Eminem diss was > >very > > > >damaging indeed. This is probably less of a salient issue than it was > >in > > > >the > > > >middle of the Play phenom. I think things are changing. > > > > > > > >There is very, very innovative electronic music made by 'pop' black > > > >musicians right now, it's just not called 'techno' as such, but it is > > > >techno, if you know what I mean. > > > > > > > >There's the Neptunes - NERD - and Chad Hugo knows his techno and house > >and > > > >it's evidently an influence. Timbaland. And if Missy's Work It ain't a > > > >techno/electro record, I don't know what is?? > > > >That new Snoop single From Tha Chuuuch To Da Palace has a techno feel. > > > > > > > >I think Jeff Mills is very charismatic - and therefore marketable - > >within > > > >a > > > >certain culture (I'm talking international, not just US market). I'm a > > > >little biased but he is way more charismatic than most of the superstar > > > >DJs, > > > >actually all the Detroit DJs have charisma. > > > > > > > >Not to be mean, but John Digweed has no charisma at all and yet he is a > >big > > > >name in the US dance culture! > > > > > > > >Anyway, you can't always use record sales as a baromoter since not > >every > > > >one > > > >who would go to - and enjoy - a Mills DJ gig would buy a record of > >his..... > > > >I think this is something the wider music industry has yet to come to > >terms > > > >with, other ways to measure success. How many people per year would > >hear > > > >Mills DJ? > > > > > > > >Not sure if any of that made sense. > > > > > > > > > "can you imagine a black man with Moby's electronica, techno > >celebrity > > > > > status? The American music industry wouldn't allow for something > >like > > > >that to > > > > > happen, the irony is Moby rips off black music." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are there any black techno people out that there make crappy > >rocktronica > > > >for > > > >the > > > > > masses and possess marketable qualities at the same time? > > > > > > > > > > I think it has more to do with marketability than with the color of > >ones > > > >skin. > > > > > Just look at Will Smith. Made crappy rap for the masses, a crappy tv > > > >sitcom > > > >for > > > > > the masses, crappy movies for the masses. Presto, a 20 million a > > > >picture, > > > > > platinum record selling, oscar nominated superstar that makes Moby > >and > > > >Eminem > > > > > look small in comparison. > > > > > > > > > > Will Smith is black, but at the same time he is extremely marketable > >to > > > >a > > > > > majority of people. > > > > > > > > > > Lets face it, Jeff Mills is brilliant but he is not marketable. If > >he > > > >stopped > > > > > making quality techno and started making crappy rocktronica he would > > > >still > > > >have > > > > > to jump the hurdle of marketable personality. > > > > > > > > > > There are reasons why the people/work we like are not products for > >mass > > > > > consumption. Either there will be a huge shift in the > >rabble(possible > > > >but > > > > > highly improbable) or there will be a shift in the people/work we > > > >like(possible > > > > > but highly questionable). > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes contributing something meaningful and pure means more than > > > >being on > > > > > the cover of rolling stone and making millions of dollars. If Jeff > >Mills > > > >or > > > > > Carl Craig want to chase superstardom, fine, but they are not going > >to > > > >succeed > > > > > at it by doing the stuff that only appealed to a niche > > > >audience/market(ie all > > > >of > > > > > us). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > techno wrote: > > > > > > > > > >>It's almost surreal always seeing him in the headlines, it makes me > > > >think > > > > >>back to 1991 watching him performing at a rave in front of 500 > >people > > > > >>standing behind his SY 77 keyboard. > > > > >>Now he's making Millions of dollars in album sales, tv commercials > > > > >>endorsements (Microsoft). > > > > >> > > > > >>Can you imagine a black man with Moby's electronica, techno > >celebrity > > > > >>status? > > > > >>The American music industry wouldn't allow for something like that > >to > > > > >>happen, the irony is Moby rips off black music. > > > > >>Out of curiosity I was listing to one of his live performances from > >his > > > >last > > > > >>album and he was trying to sound like a black Baptist preacher, I > >feaaal > > > >it, > > > > >>I feeeeaaaal it, yeaaah... in a shaky, black tone of voice. > > > > >>I guess he was trying to sound gospel, making holy spirit and jesus > > > > >>refrences, I remember thinking how uncomfortable it would have been > >to > > > > >>actually attend that concert, like going to a > > > > >>Christian rock concert. > > > > >>The we are made of stars song he perfromed on SNL sounds a little > >more > > > > >>endurable, back to his rock n'roll roots I geuss. > > > > >>To make this a little more on topic I remember when Moby dissed Jeff > > > >Mills > > > > >>for still playing dominator back in 92-93. > > > > >>This was when Moby was getting tied of the techno genre. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail >
