i'd hate to think that because people don't share my politicla views doesn't mean i can't air them. how facists =P
see my other much longer posting for the rest. On Sun, 21 Mar 2004, Sasha Kipervarg wrote: > Because some people don't actually share your political views on the > U.S. And rather than debate you on a listserve dedicated to 313 music, I > would rather you just table it, and get back to discussing music. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 8:13 PM > > To: Sasha Kipervarg > > Cc: 313 mailing list > > Subject: RE: (313) Kraftwerk last night > > > > private- why? > > > > it wasn't directed to anyone in particular. > > > > > > On Sun, 21 Mar 2004, Sasha Kipervarg wrote: > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] please...take this thread private. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 5:42 PM > > > > To: Kent williams > > > > Cc: Martin; 313 mailing list > > > > Subject: Re: (313) Kraftwerk last night > > > > > > > > i think at this point- most of the german i meet, when the topic > > > > turns to war and such things, are actually more opposed > > to it than > > > > most, having seen the horror of it first hand (the fact that they > > > > always lose probably doesn't help much either). There are still > > > > buildings in East Berlin where you can see the bullet holes. Tha > > > > tmakes a pretty good argument against war I should think. > > > > > > > > However- its also true that Germna children (at least > > people my age > > > > were taught as children) that because of WWII, that the German > > > > people are bad. > > > > This is unfortunate as it became rather uncomfortable > > when some of > > > > them found out I was jewish. They were convinced I must hate them > > > > because of something that their grandparents did, > > although nothing > > > > could be farther from the truth. Its also scary because > > its usually > > > > in places where the population doesn't have a lot of > > respect where > > > > facists are able to rally the depressed nation into a frenzy of > > > > nationalism. Remember- Germans were downtrodden after > > loosing WWI, > > > > which is why the Nazis were able to take power under the > > allusion of > > > > German superiority. Kinda an overcompensation if you wanna get > > > > Freudian about it. > > > > > > > > Not that this has anything to do with Kraftwerk mind you. > > But having > > > > just spent a weekend in Berlin- a place where people are > > impossibly > > > > kind and trusting (hell- we paid at a resturant with a > > hand written > > > > IOU), I think anyone who holds the past against these people is > > > > really missing out. And in fact is probably a cause of > > the problem > > > > more than a solution. > > > > > > > > America is certainly the closest thing to facist we have in the > > > > Westernized world. Left unchecked, might the powers start > > executing > > > > Arabs enmass? I suspect that some people in power wouldn't blink > > > > twice at 'cleansing' the evil Muslims who wish to destroy > > our way of > > > > life. > > > > > > > > Scary and sad. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 21 Mar 2004, Kent williams wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 21 Mar 2004, Martin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simon Price and Kitty Empire) repeating the tired > > old cliche > > > > > > > > that - to quote Empire by way of example - > > > > 'Kraftwerk's austere > > > > > > > > music has brought them misguided accusations of being > > > > fascists'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And neither am I, nor are you ... but Stockhausen has > > > > said that he > > > > > > > dislikes all music with a steady beat because it > > reminds him > > > > > > > of the martial drumbeats of fascism. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then he must hate most music, as there's nearly alway's > > > > "something" > > > > > > holding time and the beat. > > > > > > > > > > Arguably, Stockhausen's music often sounds like music > > composed by > > > > > someone who hates music. > > > > > > > > > > > The problem is people seem to tar everyone German > > with the same > > > > > > brush. > > > > > > > > > > Now here's a off-topic tangent, but here goes: Much has > > > > been made of > > > > > the collective guilt of Germans for the Nazi period, but in > > > > my opinion > > > > > Hitler only exploited and amplified the worst tendencies of > > > > the people > > > > > under his rule. Hitler's rhetoric -- and the rhetoric of > > > > the fascists > > > > > everywhere, sound disturbingly similar to the rhetoric of > > > > the United State's conservatives. > > > > > I've always wondered how big a shove it would take to push > > > > America's > > > > > right wingers (or for that matter, left wingers) into > > forming El > > > > > Salvador-style death squads. I suspect not very big. > > > > > > > > > > Germans are just people; to the extent that they're > > > > different from any > > > > > other homogenous population, it's the little things > > that make them > > > > > different, like toilets with a little shelf in the bowl for > > > > your poop > > > > > to sit on. People are just fooling themselves if they > > > > think there's > > > > > anything peculiarly German about what happened between 1933 > > > > and 1945. > > > > > > > > > > And since I immediately brought up Nazis, this thread > > > > should be over > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
