On Apr 30, 2020, at 10:00 PM, Douglas von Roeder wrote: > Another WTF is that you can’t iterate from the end of a collection to the > start. You can reorder the collection and then run a For each loop but > that’s a complete kludge. Dollars to doughnuts, 4D will eventually add a > parameter to the For each so that we don’t have to use that workaround. > > As Tim Nevels is wont to say (paraphrasing) “This just the beginning - have > patience!"
I see my name… and have to say “he’s right”. 4D is operating in a mode where they release what they can as quickly as they can. They don’t wait literally years to build a complete, finished product/feature set. They are in RAD mode. The “R” release is the example of that. We are getting a lot of features very, very fast. Yes, there are always some that complain that they are not getting everything right now. It is too slow. It is not complete. Why do we not have this or that? Gentlemen... grow up. Only babies don’t understand that you can’t have everything immediately. If 4D did what you claim you wanted — deliver a feature complete and totally stable new feature set — you’d be wait literally years. And you would then say “4D is doing nothing, I’ve seen nothing new for YEARS!" I am 100% on 4D’s side. In my opinion they have made a good decision with doing the “R” releases and putting out new features every 3 months. Remember that you get a new “R” release every 3 months. Every 3 months you get new feature and more things that you did not have before. And now with the 2 year major Long Term Support (LTS) cycle you are going to get 8 “R” releases of new features every 3 months. Then you get a new, major LTS version that has 2 years worth of development work. And it will be a solid release. A deployable x.0 release. That’s the goal at least. And They got very, very close with v17.0. Unknown how much closer they got with v18.0 release. But for sure it is 1,000 times better than v11.0, or v12.0 or v13.0. I lived through v11, v12 and v13 at client sites in production. And back then EVERYONE with any sense waited for .2 or .3 before deploying to production at client sites. I deployed v17.0 at client sites — first time in my life I deployed a 4D x.0. And I continued to upgrade them to .1 and .2 and using hot fix version. My current v17 version is v17.3 HF2. Yeah… I know 17.4 has been releases and I’ll most likely upgrade to that at some point. But v17.3 HF2 fixed enough and was “good enough” that I’m happy with it. ORDA and the new “classes” and the even more exciting web based options 4D is building will give us more options. Some we can use and incorporate into existing code easily. Some of the new feature REQUIRE doing new code. Retrofitting will not be possible or will not give you the desired results. Sometimes you just have to start over. I’ll give you an example… listboxes. First there were no listboxes, so AreaList was created. And it filled a needed hole in the 4D environment. So we all used AreaList Pro and loved it. And built big code libraries with it. Then 4D implemented listboxes, but it did not compete with AreaList in many areas. So for something “simple” you would use a listbox, but for the power and features you stayed with AreaList Pro. Now that gap is very small. 4D listboxes are very close to the power and feature set of AreaList Pro. And if you want to use entities or use collections AreaList Pro is out of the picture. 4D listboxes are the only option. So throw the AreaList Pro code library away and start over. 4D has ramped up to deliver a lot of fantastic, new and advanced features to the platform. They are doing it in pieces. It’s going to take time. But by releasing it in pieces over the next 2 years we will have time to get to know it, and learn it, and plan for it and figure out how we can integrate it into our existing projects. And to get some of the benefits we will need to start over. And we have to wait for the feature set to be completed. No retrofitting. All new code. But we get to choose if we do this. We can choose to not make the jump. Stay in “classic” mode and that’s OK. It’s a client driven world. If they don’t want to pay for it — and you don’t want to rewrite it all for free — you keep on the current path. Totally cool and supported. No 4D Summit 2020. It went virtual and online and it’s free. So zero complaints here.. other than missing seeing all my “old friends” again. I did miss that. A lot. 2021 there will be 4D World Tour — as usual. And it will be filled with v18 “R” release “goodies”. So I’m looking forward to that. 2022 will be another 4D Summit… and the release of 4D v19. 2 years worth of development that will finally be completed and released. It’s gonna be a big deal! The TV show Kung Fu… I loved that show when it was on TV in reruns. (I have the entire series on DVD and have watched it all from beginning to end a few years ago.) https://www.amazon.com/Kung-Fu-Collection-David-Carradine/dp/B000X07TLA Patience... Grasshopper http://beahealthygeek.com/patience-young-grasshopper/ That comes from a television show called Kung Fu. Kwai Chang Caine was played by David Caradine who’s character often thought back to his earlier years training as a Shaolin Monk in Asia. It was during this training that his blind Chinese master would say “Patience Young Grasshopper.” Words to live by. Tim ***************************************** Tim Nevels Innovative Solutions 785-749-3444 timnev...@mac.com ***************************************** ********************************************************************** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **********************************************************************
