Hi Stephen, see below:

On Jul 17, 2008, at 5:40 PM, Stephen Dawson-Haggerty wrote:
- support route-over combined with no hop-by-hop reassembly

We should clean up the terminology here since the working group seems to have different ideas of what "route-over" is. I admit, that I haven't been that clear myself over the past few months. I'd like us to decouple routing from forwarding in the way that IP has traditionally done. So it's probably more appropriate to say L3 forwarding in this context. Route-over is a term meant to describe IP routing rather than L2 mesh routing.

- support source routing

As older discussions on the list have gone over, the first is
currently possible by unpacking the IP headers in the first fragment
and caching the routing information for successive fragments.  I think
it's probably not necessary to do anything other then declare that the
compressed IP headers must fit into the first fragment, but there
could be other ideas for how to best allow this.

Yes. Some are concerned that this adds some state/complexity within the node. I'm not convinced that the added resource requirements are a huge issue. As for fitting into the first fragment, even an uncompressed IPv6 header should fit given the worst case. Unless you have a huge hop-by-hop options header or large (yet-to-be-defined) 6lowpan headers, this shouldn't be much of an issue.

The second belongs in any standard, because it interacts with address
compression: the source route can be used to infer the source and
destination IP address for intra-pan routing.  What I would suggest
here is the addition of an LOWPAN_HCNH encoding for source routing.
This also brings up the issue it should be possible to follow this
header (NHSR?) with a NH_UDP encoding block so as to have compressed
source routing as well as UDP headers.  Whatever header format is
decided on should also support a record route option in the dispatch
byte.  If people agree that this is important, I can write up a
proposal on how to do this.

I can say that we've been using such functionality in production deployments for many months now and they are invaluable resources for debugging wireless networks (especially when routing protocols fail) and can be used for simple routing protocols as well (e.g. DSR-like protocols). While they do interact with HC, I did not include them in the first draft simply because it was more important to solve the initial problem of proposing a new HC format. Furthermore, routing type 0 was just deprecated and there is no existing definition for record-route in IPv6. I'm strongly in favor of including this functionality in the draft, but we need to be careful about the processing rules. If the working group things this is useful functionality to include in the doc, I'd be happy to see your ideas and we can compare with mine or others.

What else do people see as needing work in HC?

Some of the issues on the plate that I plan to address in the next draft (as discussed in the last WG meeting):
- two bits for HLIM to indicate where the packet came from
- adding bits to identify the prefix context for supporting multiple prefixes
- removing option for checksum compression in UDP
- add a new UDP-like transport that relies on end-to-end MIC rather than checksum

Chairs, given the urgency of pushing HC through, I'd like to have some time at the WG meeting to talk about updates and issues. Thanks.

To answer the original question in this thread: I too am in favor of deprecating HC1 and pushing HC forward as quickly as possible.

--
Jonathan Hui



Steve

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Geoff Mulligan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I also agree. Now is the right time before we have to carry this design
baggage forward.

As Pascal pointed out - we then need to get HC done sooner.

      geoff

On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 10:56 +0200, Anthony Schoofs wrote:
I am also in favor of that approach.
We have had issues with routing packets from 6lowpan nodes to IP
hosts, and we definitively need the HC compression to make things
cleaner and optimized.

Anthony
--
Anthony Schoofs
Research Scientist
Philips Research
High Tech Campus 34 , 5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Inactive hide details for Pascal"Pascal Thubert (pthubert)"
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       17-07-2008 10:13


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         Subject

Re: [6lowpan] HC

  Classification





Hi David:

I do support that approach. I'd note that it would impose some
pressure to release HC rather quickly.
Is there a way to get a feedback on existing deployments that use
6LoWPAN HC1?

Pascal


______________________________________________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Culler
Sent: mercredi 16 juillet 2008 18:25
To: [email protected]
Subject: [6lowpan] HC

It appears that the 6LoWPAN WG is poised to take up serious discussion of HC (http://www3.tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hui-6lowpan-hc-00) and I
would like to encourage us to make a bold move forward while the
number of "dusty deck 6LoWPAN implementations" are few - eliminate
HC1/HC2 in the process.

As a bit of background, the original format document defined HC1 for
compression of link local IPv6 addresses and HC2 for compression of
UDP and ICMP headers. Both were part of a rather awkward encoding.
Most other parts of the encoding got cleaned up with the switch to the
stacked header format that went to RFC. Aside from its awkwardness,
HC1 was never sufficient, because it provided no compression of
routable addresses, nor for the most useful multicast addresses - both
rather essential to IPv6. HC1g was proposed to provide a similar
(somewhat more effective) stateless compression of common addresses of
global scope. This meant two similar compression schemes, HC1 for
link-local, HC1G for global. Both are implementable with much less
than a thousand lines of code. No ambiguity about when to use which.

HC provides a much cleaner approach which subsumes both HC1 and HC1g,
better supports multicast, and is much more usable with IPv6 stacked
headers because the order of the subheaders is respected. (HC2 comes
in between the dispatch and the address subheader, rather than as a
portion of the transport subheader).

The decision to take on HC, clean up the rough edges, and build
consensus around it is the easy part. The bolder step that I would
like to suggest is that we deprecate HC1 and get it removed soon.

It is always easier to maintain backward compatibility than to make a
clean break. But, ultimately that is burdening all the many future
implementations in order to avoid a burden on the few current
implementations.

The reason to avoid this burden is not that either is a huge amount of
code. Implementing any of these HCs is only several hundred LOC. The
issue is testing and interoperability. The interoperability draft
sheds some light on this. There are so many different compression
forms and since each is an optimization on the uncompressed version,
there are many different ways to represent the same thing. All with
different sizes and offsets. At least they are all in the same suite.
To multiply that with all the combinations of HC1 and HC will be
really unpleasant. Moreover, the only thing anyone will ever use after
a short while is HC, since it is so much cleaner and more effective.
That means all the HC1 mess and all the testing and interoperability
investment will be for nothing other than that - just to pass the
test. But it will generate latent bugs, increase the footprint, and
frustrate interoperabilty.

So, as we imagine a future of billions of 6LoWPAN IP devices embedded in important hard to reach places, lets take the step now to simplify their implementation and testing, rather worry too much about saving a
few hours of coding for the half dozen existing implementations. If
that is not reason enough, those same implementors will save many
times that amount in reduced testing and interoperability validation.
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