Hi Jonathan,

I don't think it makes any difference re. encryption and I think the table
at the beginning of Section 2 15-15-0090-06-0mag-ie-table.docx is correct.
I also think you have one point wrong - see inline comment below.

Below is an alternative representation of what is in the table mentioned
above, showing what you could expect in the 8 cases (monospaced font
required):

Case |<--------- Header --------->||<------- Payload ------>|
-----|----------------------------||------------------------|
1    | MHR(0) |                   ||                 ||     |
2    | MHR(1) | HIE[1-n]          ||                 ||     |
3    | MHR(1) |             HT1   || PIE[1-n] | [PT] ||     |
4    | MHR(1) | HIE[1-n] |  HT1   || PIE[1-n] | [PT] ||     |
5    | MHR(0) |                   ||                 || MPY |
6    | MHR(1) | HIE[1-n] |  HT2   ||                 || MPY |
7    | MHR(1) |             HT1   || PIE[1-n] |  PT  || MPY |
8    | MHR(1) | HIE[1-n] |  HT1   || PIE[1-n] |  PT  || MPY |

Robert

On 19 June 2015 at 18:13, Jonathan Hui <[email protected]> wrote:

> I agree that IEEE 802.15.4e-2012 alone is ambiguous about what to do with
> the Header IE list termination.
>
> It is clear that in the presence of encryption, the List Termination IE
> for Header IEs is necessary whenever any Payload IEs or Unformatted Payload
> is present.  The List Termination IE is needed to determine the end of the
> authenticated header and start of the encrypted payload.
>
> It is also clear that in the absence of encryption, it is possible to
> decipher between Header IEs and Payload IEs.  For Header IEs, Figure 48n
> shows that Bit 15 is always set to 0.  For Payload IEs, Figure 48o shows
> that Bit 15 is always set to 1.  For that reason, including a List
> Termination IE at the end of the Header IE list is redundant in the absence
> of encryption.
>

<RCC>But it is not possible to distinguish between Payload IEs and
Unformatted Payload. Therefore the List Termination IE is still needed</RCC>


>
> Of course, IEEE 802.15.4e-2012 says nothing about the relationship between
> Header IE List termination and encryption.  In that respect, IEEE
> 802.15.4e-2012 is ambiguous about whether or not to include the List
> Termination IE at the end of a Header ID list.
>
> Ben Rolfe and I have spent countless conversations trying to interpret the
> IEEE 802.15.4e-2012.  I'm glad to see that the SC maintenance is looking to
> address this ambiguity.
>
> --
> Jonathan Hui
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Rene Struik <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>  On 6/19/2015 10:22 AM, Pat Kinney wrote:
>>
>> I have been reading these emails on IE Headers with great interest.  In
>> the IEEE 802.15 maintenance standing committee we often have long
>> discussions on how IEs should be used and as a result have started an
>> interest group on an IEEE 802.15.4 guide.  As part of that effort I have
>> created an IE Table guide, 15-15-0090-06
>> <https://mentor.ieee.org/802.15/dcn/15/15-15-0090-06-0mag-ie-table.docx>
>> , https://mentor.ieee.org/802.15/dcn/15/15-15-0090-06-0mag-ie-table.docx.
>>  If you wish to review it, this is a publicly available document.
>>
>>  But to the points raised:
>> - "there is no need to add a termination header IE” - this is incorrect,
>> the IE termination header IE is required to be transmitted before the
>> payload IEs.
>>
>> RS>> This statement seems incorrect. Please see 802.15.4e-2012, Clause
>> 5.2.4.22: that clause does not say anything about the explicit
>> termination in the scenario where there are no Header IEs. Technically,
>> there is also no need (if at most authentication is required, since Header
>> IEs and Payload IEs can be distinguished). {If confidentiality is provided,
>> then one would have to include this, as my analysis already showed}.
>> <<RS
>>
>> - “header IEs and Payload IEs have a different type within the first
>> 2-byte descriptor” - this is incorrect, currently there is no overlap but
>> we will need these extra IDs in the future.
>>
>> RS>> This statement seems incorrect as well. Please see 802.15.4e-2012,
>> Clause 5.2.4.2: Header IEs and Payload IEs differ on the Type Subfield.
>> The ID space is a different subfield altogether.
>> <<RS
>>
>> - "If Header IEs are not present and Payload IEs are present, after
>> having read the MAC Header the next byte to read will be Payload IEs and
>> together with identification of the IE type ( Payload IEs type 1 ) you
>> already have a way to know that what you have are Payload IEs, thus you do
>> not have to add a termination Header IE before”  This is incorrect
>>
>> RS>> I would like to understand this, since this statement seems
>> incorrect as well, based on the current 802.15.4e-2011 spec.
>> <<RS
>>
>>
>>  I have included an example of an Enhanced Beacon in the IE Table
>> Guide.  Please let me know if you believe I have made a mistake and why you
>> believe it is a mistake.
>>
>>  Pat
>>
>>
>>  Pat Kinney
>> *Kinney Consulting LLC*
>> IEEE 802.15 WG vice chair, TG chair
>> ISA100.11a WG chair
>> O: +1.847.960.3715
>> [email protected]
>>
>>
>>  On 19, Jun2015, at 6:47, José Ángel Miranda <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi,
>>
>>  Ok, after having read your answers I would like to clarify some points:
>>
>>  - Following the current standard*, IEs payload are NOT encrypted.*
>> - Within an Enhanced Beacon, the MAC payload conforms IEs payload +
>> Beacon Payload.
>> - The inclusion of IEs within the frame is indicated via FCF( bit 9 ).
>>
>>  These assumptions are correct and based on the current standard (
>> 802.15.4e - 2012 ), in which the minimal is based.
>> Therefore, when receiving a frame, specifically a beacon, there is no
>> need to add a termination Header IE before the Payload IEs due to the
>> following reasons:
>> - When having received the beacon, you can check whether it has
>> Information Elements or not by just checking the FCF.
>> - Header IEs and Payload IEs have different type within the first 2 byte
>> descriptor ( Header IEs have type 0 and Payload IEs have type 1 ).
>> - If Header IEs are not present and Payload IEs are present, after having
>> read the MAC Header the next byte to read will be Payload IEs and together
>> with identification of the IE type ( Payload IEs type 1 ) you already have
>> a way to know that what you have are Payload IEs, thus you do not have to
>> add a termination Header IE before.
>>
>>  In case of following other standard rather than the current one ( may
>> be the next rev. ), when having the Payload IEs encrypted (* this is NOT
>> as specified in the current standard* ), there would be one condition
>> where the termination Header IE is strictly required:
>> - You would have the IE list present bit set within the FCF and at time
>> to decrypt the frame you need to know, in order to operate properly the
>> incoming security procedure, what is 'c data' and 'a data', therefore you
>> need to add a termination Header IE in order to: avoid possible confusion
>> with the non-formatted encrypted payload and know where the MAC Header
>> ends.
>>
>>  Taking into account these points, the beacon showed within the minimal
>> draft should be modified ( omitting the termination Header IE ).
>>
>>  Cheers,
>> Jose.
>>
>>
>> 2015-06-18 0:58 GMT+02:00 Tero Kivinen <[email protected]>:
>>
>>> Rene Struik writes:
>>> > According to the 15.4e spec, the value of the IE List Present field
>>> > in the FCF signals whether or not IEs are included in the frame (see
>>> > Clause 5.2.11.5b).
>>>
>>> This is true.
>>>
>>> > Header and Payload IEs can be distinguished via the Type field (bit
>>> > 15: set to zero if Header IE; set to one otherwise)  and are
>>> > self-contained TLV data objects (see Clauses 5.2.4.2 and 5.2.4.3).
>>>
>>> This is not. Nothing in the 802.15.4e says that there cannot be long
>>> format for header IEs, or that you cannot have short format for
>>> payload IEs. On the other hand the section 5.2.2.6.17 says:
>>>
>>>         5.2.2.6.17 IEs field
>>>
>>>         The IEs field is variable in length and is present if the IEs
>>>         Present field is set to one. The format of IEs is specified in
>>>         5.2.4. It contains Header IEs, followed by Payload IEs. Each
>>>         type of IE list is terminated as required per 5.2.4.22.
>>>
>>> I.e. both IE lists are terminated as required per 5.2.4.22. The
>>> 5.2.4.22 says:
>>>
>>>         5.2.4.22 IE List Termination IE
>>>
>>>         The Header IE list is terminated with an IE List Termination
>>>         IE (ID = 0x7e or 0x7f) that has a content length of zero.
>>>         Explicit termination is required after a Header IE if there is
>>>         one or more Payload IEs (0x7e), or MAC payload (0x7f),
>>>         following the Header IE list. If an unformatted payload
>>>         follows the Payload IE list, then the payload IE list is
>>>         terminated with a list termination IE (ID = 0xf) that has a
>>>         content length of zero. Otherwise the terminator may be
>>>         omitted.
>>>
>>> I.e. no header termination IE is needed if there is nothing coming
>>> after it. The 0x7e is needed if there is Payload IEs after Header IEs,
>>> and 0x7f is needed if there is no Payload IEs, but there is payload
>>> after it.
>>>
>>> > Note that IEs should only be processed at receipt after successful
>>> incoming
>>> > frame security processing (i.e., IEs can be assumed to be available in
>>> the
>>> > clear for this discussion).
>>>
>>> Actually this is not specified in the 802.15.4e... Also several of
>>> those IEs are processed by MAC, and even if the frame is accepted from
>>> node A with data payload, that does not mean that all IEs in that
>>> frame is something that will be accepted.
>>>
>>> In the 802.15.4rev there is new security tables similar to the Frame
>>> security tables for IEs, to specify whether they are accepted or
>>> ignored by the MAC.
>>> --
>>> [email protected]
>>>
>>
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>>
>> --
>> email: [email protected] | Skype: rstruik
>> cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363
>>
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