> On 11 Sep 2015, at 14:20, Tero Kivinen <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> It depends what kind of authentication protocol you are going to
> create to run between JN, JA and JCE. You are talking about creating
> new protocol, and claiming that it would be just "simply using PSK to
> generate MAC protected COSE object", and that we somehow use ASN or
> monotonic counter to protect replays. And then just sending some
> encapsulated keys back...
> 
> This is not as easy as it sounds. The devil is in the details, i.e.
> actually specifying this new authentication protocol so it is actually
> secure and offers the features we need is not that simple.
> 
> You most likely need some kind of challenge response system so JN can
> know that JCE really answered to the request he send, and attacker
> cannot use old reply from JCE.

This scenario would correspond to ‘hijacking’ a JN and installing it in a 
different network than the one it was programmed to join, I suppose?

> JA needs to know the result of the
> exchange between JCE and JN so it can know whether JN is valid.

Not sure I agree with this, why couldn’t JN and JA authenticate themselves once 
JCE has shared network keys/certificates to JN. Or you are considering DoS 
attack on JA by a rogue JN? 

Consider for instance K1 and K2 from minimal, where JCE shares K2 with JN as a 
result of the join. As soon as JN has K2, it can start exchanging securely with 
JA (or any other neighbor) through the knowledge of ASN. I don’t see the need 
to do anything else there, do you? Of course, JCE then needs to handle updates 
of K2 but that’s another story.


> Doing
> that all in messages that are less than 100 bytes is even harder.

That, I agree :-). 

> 
> This is the reason why 802.15.9 decided AGAINST making their own key
> management protocols. All key management protocols in 802.15.9 are
> already specified somewhere else. I think it would be bad idea to
> start designing this kind of protocol here in this WG.  

Ok, I see your point. If you don’t think we should design a new one, is there 
something already specified that does not require 10+ exchanges that we could 
use?

Regards,
Mališa

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