Can we get some text quoted from the appropriate IEEE spec(s) to support the 
positions in this discussion?

- Ralph

> On Dec 12, 2015, at 5:29 PM 12/12/15, Jonathan Simon <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> Pat - unless something was changed in 802.15.4-2015, that was not how the 
> original TSCH shared slots worked.  Devices don't do carrier sense, since 
> transmissions are synchronized and talk at the same time (within sync 
> tolerances) - they do however back off using a similar backoff mechanism, but 
> counted in shared slots as opposed to time, to avoid persistent collision.    
> I think that's what "slotted Aloha" is supposed to mean here - a slotted 
> shared medium without carrier sense.
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 4:57 AM, Pat Kinney 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi  Qin;
> A shared slot is open for all devices.  To transmit on this timeslot a device 
> shall sense the medium for activity, if active it shall wait for the next 
> available time slot.   Hence a shared slot is a contention access period for 
> CSMA-CA.  This isn't slotted aloha, since it senses the medium first.
> Pat
> 
> Patrick Kinney
> Kinney Consulting
> +1.847.960.3715
> [email protected]
> 
> On Dec 11, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Qin Wang <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Pat,
>> 
>> According to my understanding, in the TSCH mode of 802.15.4, if the 
>> attribute of a slot is Shared, slotted- aloha access should be allowed in 
>> the slot. Right?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Qin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, December 11, 2015 2:29 PM, "[email protected]" 
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Xavi;
>> 
>> As I understand slotted-aloha, TSCH is really Time Division Multiple Access 
>> (TDMA), not slotted-aloha.  Slotted-aloha access to the medium is used in 
>> the 802.15.4 CSMA algorithms for some modes but not TSCH.
>> 
>> Pat
>> 
>> On 11, Dec2015, at 11:24, Xavier Vilajosana <[email protected]> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> I wrapped up the proposed changes and integrated them to the version in 
>> bitbucket.
>> https://bitbucket.org/6tisch/draft-ietf-6tisch-minimal/commits/28cb63fde078a0aec8307d416e82cdf482c0608a
>> 
>> For simplicity, see here a summary of the changes.
>> 
>> 
>> Abstract:
>> 
>> [OLD]
>> 
>>  This document describes the minimal set of rules to operate an IEEE
>>    802.15.4 Timeslotted Channel Hopping (TSCH) network.  This minimal
>>    mode of operation can be used during network bootstrap, as a fall-
>>    back mode of operation when no dynamic scheduling solution is
>>    available or functioning, or during early interoperability testing
>>    and development.
>> 
>> [NEW]
>> 
>> This document describes a minimal mode of operation for a 6TiSCH
>>    Network, to provide IPv6 connectivity over a Non-Broadcast Multi-
>>    Access (NBMA) mesh that is formed of IEEE 802.15.4 Timeslotted
>>    Channel Hopping (TSCH) links.  This minimal mode leverages 6LoWPAN
>>    and RPL to enable slotted-aloha operations over a static TSCH
>>    schedule.
>> 
>> 
>> Introduction:
>> 
>> [OLD]
>> 
>> The nodes in a IEEE 802.15.4 TSCH network follow a communication
>>    schedule.  The entity (centralized or decentralized) responsible for
>>    building and maintaining that schedule has precise control over the
>>    trade-off between the network's latency, bandwidth, reliability and
>>    power consumption.  During early interoperability testing and
>>    development, however, simplicity is more important than efficiency.
>>    One goal of this document is to define the simplest set of rules for
>>    building a TSCH-compliant network, at the necessary price of lesser
>>    efficiency.  Yet, this minimal mode of operation MAY also be used
>>    during network bootstrap before any schedule is installed into the
>>    network so nodes can self-organize and the management and
>>    configuration information be distributed.  In addition, the minimal
>>    configuration MAY be used as a fall-back mode of operation, ensuring
>>    connectivity of nodes in case that dynamic scheduling mechanisms fail
>>    or are not available.  The IEEE 802.15.4 specification provides a
>>    mechanism whereby the details of slotframe length, timeslot timing,
>>    and channel hopping pattern are communicated when a node time
>>    synchronizes to the network [IEEE802154].  This document describes
>>    specific settings for these parameters.
>> 
>> [NEW]
>> 
>>  A 6TiSCH Network provides IPv6 connectivity over a Non-Broadcast
>>    Multi-Access (NBMA) mesh that is formed of IEEE 802.15.4 Timeslotted
>>    Channel Hopping (TSCH) links.
>> 
>>    The 6TiSCH [I-D.ietf-6tisch-architecture] architecture requires the
>>    use of both RPL and the 6LoWPAN adaptation layer framework
>>    ([RFC4944], [RFC6282]) as defined over IEEE 802.14.5.  6LoWPAN
>>    Neighbor Discovery [RFC6775] (ND) is also required to exchange
>>    Compression Contexts, form IPv6 addresses and register them for the
>>    purpose of Duplicate Address Detection, Address Resolution and
>>    Neighbor Unreachability detection over one TSCH link.  In order to
>>    reduce the header overhead of the RPL artifacts in data packets, the
>>    Routing header [RFC6554], the RPL Option [RFC6553] and the related IP
>>    in IP encapsulation MUST be encoded as prescribed in
>>    [I-D.ietf-6lo-routing-dispatch]
>> 
>>    Nodes in a IEEE 802.15.4 TSCH network follow a communication
>>    schedule.  A network using the simple mode of operation uses a static
>>    schedule.
>> 
>>    This specification defines a Minimal Configuration to build a 6TiSCH
>>    Network, using the Routing Protocol for LLNs (RPL) and a static TSCH
>>    Schedule.  The 802.15.4 TSCH mode, RPL [RFC6550], and its Objective
>>    Function 0 (OF0) [RFC6552], are used unmodified, but parameters and
>>    particular operations are specified to guarantee interoperability
>>    between nodes in a 6TiSCH Network.
>> 
>>    More advanced work is expected in the future to complement the
>>    Minimal Configuration with dynamic operations that can adapt the
>>    Schedule to the needs of the traffic in run time.
>> 
>> 
>> Section 11.2
>> 
>> [OLD]
>> 
>> In addition to the Objective Function (OF), nodes in a multihop
>>    network using RPL MUST indicate the preferred mode of operation using
>>    the MOP field in DIO.  Nodes not being able to operate in the
>>    specified mode of operation MUST only join as leaf nodes.  RPL
>>    information and hop-by-hop extension headers MUST follow [RFC6553]
>>    and [RFC6554] specification.  In the case that the packets formed at
>>    the LLN need to cross through intermediate routers, these MUST follow
>>    the IP in IP encapsulation requirement specified by the [RFC6282] and
>>    [RFC2460].  RPI and RH3 extension headers and inner IP headers MUST
>>    be compressed according to [RFC6282].
>> 
>> [NEW]
>> 
>> In addition to the Objective Function (OF), nodes in a multihop
>>    network using RPL MUST indicate the preferred mode of operation using
>>    the MOP field in DIO.  Nodes not being able to operate in the
>>    specified mode of operation MUST only join as leaf nodes.  RPL
>>    information and hop-by-hop extension headers MUST follow [RFC6553]
>>    and [RFC6554] specification.  In the case that the packets formed at
>>    the LLN need to cross through intermediate routers, these MUST follow
>>    the IP in IP encapsulation requirement specified by the [RFC6282] and
>>    [RFC2460].  RPI and RH3 extension headers and inner IP headers MUST
>>    be compressed according to [RFC6282] and [I-D.ietf-6lo-routing-dispatch].
>> 
>> 
>> have a nice weekend,
>> Xavi
>> 
>> 2015-12-11 17:49 GMT+01:00 Kris Pister <[email protected]>:
>> Ralph - to my knowledge no one has deployed the specific time-parent
>> selection scheme described in 802.15.4-*.  The basic scheme will likely work,
>> but the devil will be in the real-world details.
>> 
>> We've had about 8 years of successful deployments of industrial tsch mesh
>> networks using a time-parent selection scheme similar to what is proposed
>> in minimal.
>> 
>> 6TiSCH present a rich design space at many levels.  The goal of minimal was
>> to do something simple, based as closely as possible on things that are
>> known to work in deployed networks.  The hope and belief is that new and
>> better ideas will emerge, but it is certain that many of the proposed "good
>> ideas" will fail.  By defining minimal we provide a reliable interoperable
>> platform on which papers like "Comparing time-parent selection in 15.4-*
>> and foo" can be written.
>> 
>> ksjp
>> 
>> On 12/10/2015 5:43 AM, Ralph Droms (rdroms) wrote:
>> Is there an analysis published somewhere that demonstrates how time 
>> synchronization in 802.15.4-* is inadequate for 6TiSCH?
>> 
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