Okay. Got it.
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Bence Fábián <[email protected]> wrote: > Bottomline is this: People would never use software like that. The ones > who do are already familiar with Plan 9 and weighted pros and cons years > ago. 99,9% of the potential users are already on this mailing list and > watched this exact same exchange a dozen times. > > > 2013/12/15 Blake McBride <[email protected]> > >> I, respectfully, disagree. The end purpose of any OS, platform, or >> program is to perform some sort of function. That end function is called >> an app. An app can be targeted at a programmer or a dumb user. The >> underlying environment (including tools) determines the available >> facilities a programmer has in order to construct said app. Unix brings >> far, far better facilities for the programmer than does Window for the >> construction and operation of an app. The new ideas embodied in Plan-9 >> bring considerable enhancements to such an environment. >> >> If I am not going to build an app of some sort or another, what is the >> value of Plan-9? Am I just going to spend all day playing with the cool >> ideas with no end or purpose in mind? >> >> Blake >> >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Bence Fábián <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> If bringing Plan 9 to the masses will bring forth stuff like C++ and >>> Java, I will fight against it till my dying breath. >>> >>> Jokes aside. People don't want to use computers. People want to use >>> apps. Noone will like Plan 9. Where you have to read manuals. They hate >>> that. If you like Plan 9, and there's a usecase for it, use it. And write >>> device drivers. That is much more helpful than trying to convince LKML >>> folks that they need userlevel namespaces. People already tried this. >>> >>> >>> 2013/12/15 Blake McBride <[email protected]> >>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 5:55 AM, trebol <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> ..... The lack of a >>>>> web browser capable of deal with today's madness and the portability >>>>> limitation of ape (at least for a ignorant like me) forcesme to deal >>>>> with other OS I have to install and maintaining, so the simplicity and >>>>> cleanness I like so much of plan9 become useless. Thanks to Russ Cox >>>>> for P9P! >>>> >>>> .... >>>>> >>>> >>>> This is a great segue into a point I was hoping to make. I read Rob >>>> Pike's comments at: >>>> >>>> http://rob.pike.usesthis.com/ >>>> >>>> and it really got me thinking. What a great idea he talked about! I >>>> think this may be at the heart of the Plan-9 idea. >>>> >>>> Mind-share and markets rarely move with sense or logic. The better >>>> approach rarely wins. It is more a matter of critical mass of mind-share. >>>> Linux, for a lot of really good reasons, has that mind-share (in the >>>> technical arena). (Of course Windows has much more mind-share do largely >>>> to the fact that most users are non-technical and don't understand the >>>> difference - not to mention Microsoft's bullying of the market...) >>>> >>>> I think Plan-9 suffered from two big issues. The first was lack of >>>> mind-share (crowd acceptance). It is very hard to compete with Windows & >>>> Linux. The second was lack of support for a huge need - a fully functional >>>> browser. >>>> >>>> In spite of some really great ideas, I think we'd all agree that Plan-9 >>>> has no real future. On the other hand, I believe that some of the best >>>> ideas Plan-9 brings us can and should be a part of the future. I think the >>>> best, most practical way to bring those ideas to wide-spread use and >>>> availability is to implement those ideas in the Linux kernel. I understand >>>> that, since Linux is not Plan-9, there would be compromises and >>>> limitations, but it would be a huge step in the right direction. Plan-9 >>>> proved those ideas in an ideal environment. Just like what Smalltalk did >>>> to the world - creating C++, Java, the mouse, etc., Plan-9 can bring its >>>> ideas to the mainstream through additions and improvements to existing >>>> technology like Linux. >>>> >>>> Just some thoughts. >>>> >>>> Blake McBride >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >
