On Mon, 2002-06-24 at 19:08, Forgeot Eric wrote:
> >> Iabc doesn't understand the K:Am
> 
> >That's completely unacceptable; the program should never have
> been
> >released in that state.
> 
> It's not very kind for the author. I think it have to : it's good
> to see a new application. 

No comment on that as I hadn't been following the previous thread too
closely but...

And as far as I'm concerned, I've never
> used modes in the K: fields but only the key definition (K: is for
> key isn't it ?). For me C indicate there is no flat or sharp in
> the tune, F indicate there is a B flat etc. If in addition the
> tune is in the Am or Dm mode it doesn't change the way it is
> played or displayed.
> It's good if an application can understand modes, but why bother
> with them ? 

Modes are highly significant in some traditions. In the Cape Breton
tradition, a tune set are usually centers around a tonic note, but the
mode often changes from one tune to the next. So a given set may start
with a tune in A minor, work through A Dorian and A Mixolydian in the
middle of the set, and end on a tune in A Major. A practical
understanding of modes is fundamental to playing traditional Cape Breton
music.

So for example, if I'm putting together a set on E, it may include
various different modes around the tonic E, and it is extremely helpful
and will save me a great deal of extra searching, if the mode
information is included. Since a Cape Breton "E set" will probably
include several Em tunes I know some of them might have one sharp in the
key signature, but the difference is that I won't likely search G tunes
to find them, for a couple of reasons. First, I know from experience
that most Cape Breton musicians do understand modes, and will notate
them properly if they have the means. Secondly, as relative Major/minor
keys, G Major and Em share the one-sharp key signature but they are
definitely *not* the same; the G Major tune resolves on G and the Em
tune resolves on E, they use different chord structures (important for
accompanists), and due to those things they *sound* different. I'm sure
someone with a solid music theory background can explain it better.

The abc draft gives :
> 
> "K - key; the key signature should be  specified  with  a  capital
> letter  which  may  be  followed  by  a  # or b for sharp or flat
> respectively. In addition,  different  scales  or  modes  can  be
> specified  and,  for  example,  K:F  lydian,  K:C, K:C major, K:C
> ionian, K:G mixolydian, K:D dorian, K:A minor, K:Am"
> 
> It says : *In addition*, so it's not compulsory. 

Hmm... I've never interpreted that "In addition," phrase to mean modes
support is optional, primarily because I don't see how "different scales
or modes can be specified" (I'm interpreting that to mean "specified by
the user") without being supported. :-) So I understand the intent of
the second sentence in the draft in the simplest manner possible: it is
a list of additional K: field parameters which should be supported by
software interpreting abc.

Is there any time in abc's history where mode support was *not*
specifically included in the K: field? Just wondering - I don't have the
entire history laid out in front of me, but my impression is that mode
support has already been there, or at least was introduced *very* early.

Anyway... most
> tunes written for a relative mode don't take care of the seventh
> and then it is written in the K: field a Bm instead of D, just
> because the tunes begin with B, but there is no ^A in it (as
> expected in the Bm mode (in minor harmonic))
> I didn't say modes are useless (it's maybe because I don't master
> them I don't think I need to write them down), but they should be
> an option only. Bryan Creer talked about the idea of having the
> mode in a separated field, but as he said it's too late now. 

It would have been great if the original standard had had separate
fields for key signature and tonic, so that the tonic could be specified
by itself and the key signature expressed in pure sharps and flats, like
the extension in John Chambers' jcabc2ps allows. It would have been more
flexible in allowing users to insert the information needed - and to
leave out that which is *not* needed - by their respective traditions.
But I think Bryan is right about it being too late; there is no way to
change it now without breaking a large number of abc tunes already in
circulation.

Wendy

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